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It was already pointed out, I know, but I never really cared until now :

I just wanted to go find some quick information about Belwas' duel in ASOS (I couldn't remember if it was against a Yunkai or Mereenese champion), and... it's just impossible :

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Belwas

Mother of God...

Is there an official plan to cut down those articles ?

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Wow.

This is not tenable. The Strong Belwas article is 45,000 bytes long! That's over 7 times longer than what the article was back in October, when it seemed to me to be a perfectly reasonable article for a tertiary character in the series.

My suggestion is to hunt back through to the last version of reasonable length and roll it back. Doubtless we will lose a handful of important details, but that's better than have a monstrously overlong articles that actually reduce the utility.

Dimadick, while I appreciate all the time and effort, you have to get with the program or go and found your own wiki. These should be useful summaries, not exhaustive summaries of every possible reference to a character.

I am very busy, so if someone could please draft a "Style Guide" for the wiki that includes a focus on brevity, I think we need to nail this down.

In the interim, I'm going to fully back an effort to roll back all the most egregrious articles.

Edited by Ran

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Can someone PLEASE delete the picture by Mathia Arkoniel on the Others page?

I'm sorry, but that does NOT belong here. Since when are the Others pretty boys?

They aren't even human, so why do these guys look like sugar frosted elves?!

Edited by Syphon the Sanitator

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Because Martin has noted that the Others are actually inhumanly beautiful, and has compared them to elves.

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I've started cleanup on some of the wildly bloated articles, though some of them will require complete rewrites.

Also, what's the policy on including info from WoW preview chapters? In particular, the Barristan Selmy article includes detailed synopsis of his two preview chapters. Aside from the fact that second hand reports of unpublished material seem kind of un-encyclopedic to me, the extensive detailing give those two chapters grossly disproportionate weight relative to chapters from published books.

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I am very busy, so if someone could please draft a "Style Guide" for the wiki that includes a focus on brevity, I think we need to nail this down.

I've begin drafting a Layout Guide though two things came up in which I would like your opinion or the community's. I'd like to propose the following changes to the current layout:

  • Replace the name of "History" sections for "Biography" in all character articles as it would be far more suitable;
  • Reduce capitalization in titles. While starting the title or the entire name of the books (basically because that is their name hence it shouldn't be modified) capitalized is fine, titles like for instance "Recent Events" and/or "References and Notes" I think should be decapitalized after the first name therefore it would be "Recent events" and "References and notes".

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We have a manual of style. It also contains information about the layout. Let's expand it first. Only if the page becomes too large then we should create a new page.

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We have a manual of style. It also contains information about the layout. Let's expand it first. Only if the page becomes too large then we should create a new page.

A draft for modificiations of an already-existing page might become quite messy...but okay.

Edited by Winterz

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I meant that I would prefer to have one article with finalized rules about layout. I don't mind about a draft page or right away on the manual of style.

About your suggestions replacing "History" with "Biography" sounds good! "History" is not very precise; "Biography" is definitely better.

"Recent Events" in capitals does not bother me but I have no problem if we are going to change it.

Edited by Scafloc

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OK, I've been working on making this wiki more useable. A couple problems stand out.

1. Mormont's Raven for example weighs it at over 50,000 bytes (for comparison sake, the real life Wiki article on the Great Pyramid of Giza is 45k). There's nothing but a bare bones stub to roll back to though, so a complete rewrite is pretty much needed. Realistically, is there need for more than a few sentences per book on an item like this?

2. I removed the lengthy entries from the Barristan Selmy article covering WoW preview chapters. However, it occurs to me that some other articles include info culled from other WoW preview chapters, they just tend to be much more succint. In general though, should we strike info derived from unpublished material like this?

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OK, I've been working on making this wiki more useable. A couple problems stand out.

1. Mormont's Raven for example weighs it at over 50,000 bytes (for comparison sake, the real life Wiki article on the Great Pyramid of Giza is 45k). There's nothing but a bare bones stub to roll back to though, so a complete rewrite is pretty much needed. Realistically, is there need for more than a few sentences per book on an item like this?

2. I removed the lengthy entries from the Barristan Selmy article covering WoW preview chapters. However, it occurs to me that some other articles include info culled from other WoW preview chapters, they just tend to be much more succint. In general though, should we strike info derived from unpublished material like this?

About the first that article is certainly terrible, it seems to me that whoever has been making those additions, added the entire chapter where the raven appears. I'll try to help fixing it too.

Regarding the second, the thing that strikes a bit confusing about the source, is that though its book wasn't published yet, those chapters have been, so they're certainly considered "published material". But anyway, if Ran says it should go then it must so. ;)

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I'm just concerned about whether or not preview chapters should be considered canon. I don't have my books right at hand at the moment, but as I recall the Cersei preview chapter included in SoS ended up being pretty different when it was actually released as part of aFfC. Since any chapters currently in circulation as previews are likely to undergo at least some change before being officially published I am unsure how 'canon' they should be considered.

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Yes, I think published should be published in final form. Chapters published on GRRM's website, or as a preview of the next book, aren't necessarily in final form,

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I think there should be a page for squishers. Also shadowbinder page is seems very cheap. :blushing:

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Reading this wiki I've come to the conclusion that Mormont's Raven is the star of the series. His article is certainly the most detailed!

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