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Along the left-hand panel of each article, "What links here" should be within the Toolbox section which is below the Notable Releases section. Clicking that will bring up a screen displaying all other articles linking to the article in question. For instance, this shows all links to the article about Rhaenys Targaryen. The results page also allows you to filter by links and redirects. The latter is helpful to check because a redirect should never link to another redirect; double redirects often occur if an article has been moved a few times.

Thanks, that's an extremely usefull feature that I hadn't discovered yet! :D

Any opinions about the article titles for Battle of Winterfell, Sack of Winterfell, and Symon Silver Tongue?

Separately, there is an article titled Armies with no other articles linking to it. It is unreferenced and needs a lot of work.

Theon's actions, currently stated on the Battle of Winterfell page, I think, can be best retitled "Fall of Winterfell".

Sack of Winterfell might be split into "Battle at Winterfell" and "Sack of Winterfell"

Symon can go back to his old page-name, I don't know why that change was made.

The same author of "Armies" also made the page "Kingship", which needs a lot of work as well. That page only references to two pages, currently. If both articles are worked out thouroughly, then they can stay, I guess.. Though "Kingship" might best be retitled "King", I think? And Armies perhaps "Army"?

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Theon's actions, currently stated on the Battle of Winterfell page, I think, can be best retitled "Fall of Winterfell".

I like Fall less than Capture or Taking, actually, but it's still better than Battle. Here are the possibilities I've found based on GRRM's phrasing.

*"Capture of Winterfell" (Theon tells Asha, "With thirty men, I captured Winterfell in a night")

*"Taking of Winterfell" (Theon tells Bran, "But I've taken your castle, my prince"; Theon thinks to himself, "You took Winterfell with fewer than thirty men, a feat to sing of"; Cat tells Brienne, "[Rodrik] has gathered what power he could and is marching on Winterfell, to take the castle back")

*"Fall of Winterfell" (Tyrion thinks, "The news of the castle's fall had come as a wrenching shock")

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This page was created on the wiki. Before the author of that page starts spending a lot of time into creating it, is a page on this subject truly necessary?

I like Fall less than Capture or Taking, actually, but it's still better than Battle. Here are the possibilities I've found based on GRRM's phrasing.

*"Capture of Winterfell" (Theon tells Asha, "With thirty men, I captured Winterfell in a night")
*"Taking of Winterfell" (Theon tells Bran, "But I've taken your castle, my prince"; Theon thinks to himself, "You took Winterfell with fewer than thirty men, a feat to sing of"; Cat tells Brienne, "[Rodrik] has gathered what power he could and is marching on Winterfell, to take the castle back")
*"Fall of Winterfell" (Tyrion thinks, "The news of the castle's fall had come as a wrenching shock")

If you don't like "Fall", then my vote goes to "Capture", I think.

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Further, I asked this two weeks ago




In addition, shouldn't the term Baelor Targaryen refer to a disambiguation page where you can choose between King Baelor I, and Baelor Breakspear? The same would go for the names of all kings. People who search for a king named Aegon Targaryen, but who can't remember the number, might just type in "Aegon Targaryen", which will currently bring them to the page of Rhaegar's son.





And it was agreed upon. So I asked this:





This also still has to be done, but on this topic, shouldn't this be done for all the kings?



So Baelor, Daeron, Aegon, Viserys, Jaehaerys, and Aerys?


And also for Daella (daughter of Maekar I and daughter of Jaehaerys I)? Daella Targaryen currently links immediately to Maekar's daughter.






And I am still wondering, should this thus be done for all the kings? So, for example, have the term "Aerys Targaryen" link to a disambiguation page, which displays all people called Aerys Targaryens, including all lords, princes, and kings?



And how about Daella?


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This page was created on the wiki. Before the author of that page starts spending a lot of time into creating it, is a page on this subject truly necessary?

The expression is mentioned several times in the books, so yes, I find the page relevant.

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The current content does not add much to the wiki in my opinion. Is there more info info? I remember that Cersei uses this expression during her meeting with Ned. Has GRRM mentioned anything about this?


If there is very few information it may not justify a separate page. An alternative would be to add to article of the 1st book a few line that describes how the expression is used as is done in the article on wikipedia.

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It's mentioned several times. I can quote the occurences in the three first books :

Game 23, Jorah to Dany :

"The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends," Ser Jorah told her. "It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace." He gave a shrug. "They never are."

Game 45, Cersei to Ned (and Ned remembers it twice) :

"You should have taken the realm for yourself. It was there for the taking. Jaime told me how you found him on the Iron Throne the day King's Landing fell, and made him yield it up. That was your moment. All you needed to do was climb those steps, and sit. Such a sad mistake."

"I have made more mistakes than you can possibly imagine," Ned said, "but that was not one of them."

"Oh, but it was, my lord," Cersei insisted. "When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground."

Game 58, Varys to Ned :

"The High Septon once told me that as we sin, so do we suffer. If that's true, Lord Eddard, tell me... why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones? Ponder it, if you would, while you wait upon the queen."

Game 71, Stevron Frey to the northern lords :

"My lord father would urge caution," aged Ser Stevron said, with the weaselly smile of a Frey. "Wait, let these two kings play their game of thrones. When they are done fighting, we can bend our knees to the victor, or oppose him, as we choose. With Renly arming, likely Lord Tywin would welcome a truce… and the safe return of his son. Noble lords, allow me to go to him at Harrenhal and arrange good terms and ransoms…"

Nothing in Clash

Storm 24, the Liddle to Bran :

"The Bastard's boys, aye. He was dead, but now he's not. And paying good silver for wolfskins, a man hears, and maybe gold for word of certain other walking dead." He looked at Bran when he said that, and at Summer stretched out beside him. "As to that Wall," the man went on, "it's not a place that I'd be going. The Old Bear took the Watch into the haunted woods, and all that come back was his ravens, with hardly a message between them. Dark wings, dark words, me mother used to say, but when the birds fly silent, seems to me that's even darker." He poked at the fire with his stick. "It was different when there was a Stark in Winterfell. But the old wolf's dead and young one's gone south to play the game of thrones, and all that's left us is the ghosts."

Storm 61, Littlefinger to Sansa :

"Why should I wish [Joffrey] dead?" Littlefinger shrugged. "I had no motive. Besides, I am a thousand leagues away in the Vale. Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, Sansa, when you come to play the game."

"What... what game?"

"The only game. The game of thrones."

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In my opinion an expression itself is not noteworthy enough to merit a page. Take for instance "A Lannister always pays his depts". This is also mentioned a number of times but I think a paragraph or a few lines in the House Lannister article is sufficient.

The difference with The Game Of Thrones of course is that GOT links to the name of the first book. This is interesting. Has GRRM mentioned why he used this expression? Are there (noteworthy) critics who have discussed this? And why did the producers chose this name?

This kind of information would give the article more body in stead repating info from other pages.

Edited by Scafloc

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Further, I asked this two weeks ago

And it was agreed upon. So I asked this:

And I am still wondering, should this thus be done for all the kings? So, for example, have the term "Aerys Targaryen" link to a disambiguation page, which displays all people called Aerys Targaryens, including all lords, princes, and kings?

And how about Daella?

Yep, it's probably a good decision.

Aegon: Dany's nephew Aegon (Young Griff) is currently at "Aegon Targaryen", with disambiguation at "Aegon Targaryen (disambiguation)". Because of the frequency of Aegon being used by Targaryens and the repeated mentions of Aegon the Conqueror, it probably would be better to move Dany's nephew to "Aegon Targaryen (son of Rhaegar)". On a side note, separate articles could be created for characters like Aegon / Young Griff, Barristan / Arstan, and Catelyn / Stoneheart. We already have a split with the three-eyed crow and Brynden Rivers.

Aerys: already a disambiguation at "Aerys Targaryen"

Baelor: Disambiguation is currently at "Baelor (disambiguation)". Baelor Breakspear, currently at "Baelor Targaryen", can be moved to "Baelor Targaryen (son of Daeron II).

Daella: "Daella Targaryen" can be a disambiguation for "Daella Targaryen (daughter of Jaehaerys I)" and "Daella Targaryen (daughter of Maekar I)".

Daeron: "Daeron Targaryen" should be moved to "Daeron Targaryen (son of Maekar I)", allowing "Daeron Targaryen (disambiguation)" to be moved to "Daeron Targaryen".

Jaehaerys: "Jaehaerys Targaryen (disambiguation)" can be moved to "Jaehaerys Targaryen"

Viserys: Currently Dany's brother Viserys is at "Viserys Targaryen", with disambiguation at "Viserys Targaryen (disambiguation)". I'm not sure about this one - a case could be made that Dany's brother would be the most common usage by fans, since he appears in AGOT and Dany thinks of him periodically. Or, he could be moved to "Viserys Targaryen (son of Aerys II)" to be consistent with other Targaryens.

Also, King Robert could be moved from "Robert Baratheon" to "Robert I Baratheon", which is phrasing used in the appendices and Barristan's White Book entry. Joffrey and Tommen would remain at without the numerals in their article titles, however, since they become monarchs after the start of AGOT.

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I'm busy changing Baelor now, but for some reason, it is stated that the page "Jaime Lannister" links to "Baelor Targaryen", yet I cannot find where it is linking? This happens on more occasions? Anyone?

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I'm busy changing Baelor now, but for some reason, it is stated that the page "Jaime Lannister" links to "Baelor Targaryen", yet I cannot find where it is linking? This happens on more occasions? Anyone?

It is because the "small council" template, which was included on Jaime's page (as {{Small council}}), had a link to "Baelor Targaryen". The template now links to "Baelor Targaryen (son of Daeron II)", however.

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It is because the "small council" template, which was included on Jaime's page (as {{Small council}}), had a link to "Baelor Targaryen". The template now links to "Baelor Targaryen (son of Daeron II)", however.

Yeah, I changed that in the template, but after refreshing the page, I was still told that Baelor Targaryen links to Jaime Lannister..?

Edit: never mind, it doesn't show that now anymore.. perhaps I had been clicking too fast with the linking page..

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Ok, the renaming and redirecting of the pages concerning Baelor, Daella and Jaehaerys Targaryen is done. Currently doing all the Daeron pages ;)



That would leave the Aegon's and Viserys'..



Perhaps a vote should be made, about whether the page for Viserys is renamed? I can see that we don't do this, as Viserys III actually appears in the books. Dany's page is also still named "Daenerys Targaryen", and not "Daenerys Targaryen (daughter of Aerys II)"



For Aegon, it is a bit different. Aegon the Conquerer is indeed used more and more often, and the Dunk and Egg stories are about another Aegon Targaryen. So here, despite this Aegon appearing in story, a change in naming of the pages might be a good idea, naming "Aegon Targaryen" "Aegon Targaryen (son of Rhaegar).




As to creating separate pages for Young Griff, Arstan Whitebeard, and Lady Stoneheart, that might be an idea (it would definitly prevent spoiling too much), but there should still a mentioning on the main page (Aegon, Barristan and Catelyn respectively), linking to the main article on the other page.



So... Let's vote? I don't know how many people check this thread?



Edit: additional question. Should "Aerion Targaryen" also become a disambiguation page, as there are two Aerions? (father of Aegon I, and son of Maekar I)


Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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From the House mormont page:





History

Legend has it that King Rodrik Stark won Bear Island in a wrestling match (presumably from the ironborn king who controlled it at the time) and gave it to the Mormonts.[6]


When Eddard Stark called his banners to fight in Robert's Rebellion, Lord Jeor Mormont led the Bear Island men to war. Abdicating his lordship in the next few years to join the Night's Watch, Jeor was succeeded by his son Jorah, who earned fame in the Greyjoy Rebellion and subsequent Tourney at Lannisport. Jorah, however, was driven from the North by Lord Stark after selling poachers to a Tyroshi slaver in order to pay for the tastes of his wife, Lynesse Hightower. Jorah fled to the Free Cities and was succeeded by his aunt, Jeor's sister Maege Mormont. Jeor, meanwhile, became Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Lady Mormont's heir is Dacey Mormont, a tall, lanky warrior-woman.



Do we have a source for the second sentence? Do we know jeor mormont was lord in RR and if so that he fought for ned? Ive always thought that he mightve been a targ loyalist and sent to the wall after the war. OR that he joined earlier, seeing as he managed to rise to the top so soon.


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From the House mormont page:

Do we have a source for the second sentence? Do we know jeor mormont was lord in RR and if so that he fought for ned? Ive always thought that he mightve been a targ loyalist and sent to the wall after the war. OR that he joined earlier, seeing as he managed to rise to the top so soon.

I've been looking for that as well. I've asked on the talk-page of Jeor, and on the Small Questions thread. I can't find a source for it (the RPG's I haven't checked, I now realise), yet it is on Jeors page, Jorah's page, and the page of House Mormont.

I'll go check the RPGs now.

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Can't find anything. All I can find (and I know it is also in the app) is that Jeor was elected rather quickly, suggesting that he had been with the Watch only shortly. As he was elected in 289AC (source=app), it is likely that he was part of the Rebellion.


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I don't have the books with my but I think in A Clash of Kings-Chapter 12 Jorah tells Daenerys that his father abdicated after his (first) marriage. I don't think there is an exact year mentioned but as Jorah marriage with Lynesse is right after Balon's Rebellion and he had been married to his first wife for 10 years.


Edited by Scafloc

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I don't have the books with my but I think in A Clash of Kings-Chapter 12 Jorah tells Daenerys that his father abdicated after his (first) marriage. I don't think there is an exact year mentioned but as Jorah marriage with Lynesse is right after Balon's Rebellion and he had been married to his first wife for 10 years.

That's only this:

“Still, the island suited me well enough, and I never lacked for women. I had my share of fishwives and crofter’s daughters, before and after I was wed. I married young, to a bride of my father’s choosing, a Glover of Deepwood Motte. Ten years we were wed, or near enough as makes no matter. She was a plain-faced woman, but not unkind. I suppose I came to love her after a fashion, though our relations were dutiful rather than passionate. Three times she miscarried while trying to give me an heir. The last time she never recovered. She died not long after.”

Dany put her hand on his and gave his fingers a squeeze. “I am sorry for you, truly.”

Ser Jorah nodded. “By then my father had taken the black, so I was Lord of Bear Island in my own right. I had no lack of marriage offers, but before I could reach a decision Lord Balon Greyjoy rose in rebellion against the Usurper, and Ned Stark called his banners to help his friend Robert. The final battle was on Pyke. When Robert’s stonethrowers opened a breach in King Balon’s wall, a priest from Myr was the first man through, but I was not far behind. For that I won my knighthood.

“To celebrate his victory, Robert ordained that a tourney should be held outside Lannisport. It was there I saw Lynesse, a maid half my age. She had come up from Oldtown with her father to see her brothers joust. I could not take my eyes off her. In a fit of madness, I begged her favor to wear in the tourney, never dreaming she would grant my request, yet she did.

It would suggest that Jeor indeed took the black only after the Rebellion, but it is not confirmed. What Jorah says here, basically, is that "when my first wife died, my father had already taken the black, so I was ruling in my own right, and received many marriage offers."

How long did it take Jorah to think about the offers? That isn't stated. However, Jorah was born roughly around 255AC, and was married young (13-16?) for 10 years.. Being roughly 45 years old in 299AC would make him about 35 years old in 289AC, when he got married to Lynesse. The fact that he states that he married young, compared with the rough indication of his age upon his second marriage (he might have been a coupld of years older or younger, in reality, at his second marriage), would suggest that quite some time passed between the first and second marriage.

Because we only have rough numbers for Jorah, though, it is really hard to say.

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"Took the black" is not very specific. I thought that there was an exact reference that Jeor abdicated in favor of his son. -> Makrell mentioned he might have been a Targ loyalist and could have been made to take the black.


It still seems unlikely to me but I guess it cannot be disproven


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