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The Tyrion sample chapter is currently titled Tyrion II, but the excerpts section of the app calls it Tyrion I.

That's because at the moment, it appears to indeed have been the second Tyrion chapter that was released on the app.

We've had a reading of Tyrion I, which clearly isn't the released chapter. The short summary of Tyrion I:

Tyrion Lannister I, read at Miscon 2012

The first of two chapters detailing Tyrion and Jorah Mormont’s position within the Second Sons as the assault against Meereen begins. Tyrion is attempting to turn Brown Ben Plumm, the leader of the sellsword company the Second Sons, towards fighting for Daenerys, but it remains to be seen if Tyrion’s argument sways the captain. Mormont interrupts to announce that the arriving fleet are Greyjoys and not the Volantis fleet they were expecting.

This is a useful link for an overview of everything released, and everything read at readings, so far. (How much of the Winds of Winter is out so far?)

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In most biography articles using the {{character}} template, the listing for a character's appearances by book currently capitalizes the words "appears" and "mentioned" (for instance, A Game of Thrones (Mentioned)). They are not part of the title and should instead be changed to lower case (A Clash of Kings (appears)). It's not a high priority issue, but the capitals can be changed if editing an article for other purposes.


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I remember someone else (can't remember who, though) going through them all, making it capitilized, just a few months ago.

On an unrelated note... Would it be an idea to make categories like "Character from A Game of Thrones". "Character from A Clash of Kings" etc?

With specific categories for those who only appear in the appendix of a certain.book? Makes it easier to spot for people whih book contained which characters

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I remember someone else (can't remember who, though) going through them all, making it capitilized, just a few months ago.

On an unrelated note... Would it be an idea to make categories like "Character from A Game of Thrones". "Character from A Clash of Kings" etc?

With specific categories for those who only appear in the appendix of a certain.book? Makes it easier to spot for people whih book contained which characters

I don't see anything wrong with it, but I don't think it would be of high importance.

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There's should be a disambiguation page for Morosh. I'm not sure how to make one.

Like this?

Because there is no Morosh of the two more important, I made the page titled "Morosh" the page from where all pages link. When there are multiple pages with the same title, where one is definitly most important (for example, "Viserys Targaren", which leads to Dany's brother), the disambiguation page is "title (disambiguation)" (in the Viserys example, "Viserys Targaryen (disambiguation)")

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When there are multiple pages with the same title, where one is definitly most important (for example, "Viserys Targaren", which leads to Dany's brother), the disambiguation page is "title (disambiguation)" (in the Viserys example, "Viserys Targaryen (disambiguation)")

Was there ever a consensus on how to handle "Aegon Targaryen"?

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Was there ever a consensus on how to handle "Aegon Targaryen"?

Not that I know. "Aegon Targaryen" currently leads to Rhaegar's son. I guess that is because we have Young Griff, aka Aegon "Targaryen" in Dance... We could make "Aegon Targaryen" be the disambiguation page, as Aegon the Conqueror is mentioned quite often in the total amount of works as well, (and there are plenty of other Aegon Targaryens as well).. And then there's Dunk and Egg, featuring "Aegon (V) Targaryen" as well..

We could make the change (making "Aegon Targaryen" into "Aegon Targaryen (son of Rhaegar)", and "Aegon Targaryen (disambiguation)" to "Aegon Targaryen", listing every single Aegon Targaryen).

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We could make the change (making "Aegon Targaryen" into "Aegon Targaryen (son of Rhaegar)", and "Aegon Targaryen (disambiguation)" to "Aegon Targaryen", listing every single Aegon Targaryen).

I think that's a good suggestion.

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Any objection to creating a separate "Arstan Whitebeard" article with content from "Barristan Selmy", considering that 'Barristan' is upsetabsent from ACOK and GRRM intends his reveal in ASOS to be a surprise?


Edited by Nittanian

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Any objection to creating a separate "Arstan Whitebeard" article with content from "Barristan Selmy", considering that 'Barristan' is upset from ACOK and GRRM intends his reveal in ASOS to be a surprise?

yes. I don't think having two pages for the same character is a good idea

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I think this issue was raised because of spoilers for new readers..

The wiki is not spoiler-free from my understanding. So I don't think there's a point trying to enforce it just for a character

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Ran and Linda's Citadel Heraldry presents the houses as they are at the start of AGOT and has links to spoiler information. The AWOIAF app they developed with GRRM allows you to set the spoiler scope by book. The Tower of the Hand allows you to set the spoiler scope as well. With the exception of the Robert/Joffrey/Tommen dedication, TWOIAF presents its information as of the start of AGOT. /r/ASOIAF has an extensive spoiler policy.

Over the years I have often seen on various fora that people who have not finished the books are warned against using A Wiki of Ice and Fire because of spoilers, which is not ideal (we want people to use this site!). For almost five years the introduction of Robb Stark's article stated that Ned is executed (arguably the most shocking moment of AGOT) and that Robb becomes king. Instead, the wiki is now being broken down into book by book sections (Recent Events : A Game of Thrones / A Clash of Kings, etc.) so that the reader can read info on a book by book basis.

This method does not work as well with Barristan Selmy, since (as far as the reader knows) he is absent from ACOK and "Arstan Whitebeard" is a new character. GRRM reveals Arstan to be Barristan in ASOS, a separate book; he is only clearly the same character in hindsight. Including the Arstan information in Barristan's ACOK section is a spoiler which can easily be avoided with separate topics. Similarly, Bran has dreams of the three-eyed crow in the early books, but it is not until ADWD that TEC is revealed to be Brynden Rivers. If someone wants to read about this mysterious crow after finishing AGOT, it is better to have separate topics on TEC and Bloodraven instead of having it redirect to Brynden Rivers.

To go along with the spoiler issue, many of the templates present information as of ADWD instead of AGOT. House Lake is a minor northern house which may never be mentioned within ASOIAF. However, its Noble House template states they are sworn to House Bolton (ADWD) instead of House Stark (AGOT) and the HousesNorth template shows the Boltons as the northern Great House and the Starks as an Exiled House. GRRM has not finished ASOIAF yet, so presumably these templates will need to be continually updated until the story is complete. If Mance Rayder hypothetically becomes King in the North at the end of the story, is "House Rayder" going to be shown in templates on all of these northern pages, spoiling the endgame for people who are looking for early book information? Instead, I think it would be better for the templates to present the state as of the start of AGOT and instead list important changes book by book within Recent Events.

Similarly, House Locke states they are sworn to House Bolton (ADWD). This has led to confusion, since the TV show's unrelated Locke serves Roose Bolton and the House Locke article suggests they are vassals of the Boltons (which is not the case as of AGOT). Many (most?) readers are unaware that these templates are presenting information as of the most recently published book and not the start of the story.

The HousesRiverlands template lists House Baelish of Harrenhal as the Great House of the riverlands and the House Deddings article states they are sworn to House Baelish of Harrenhal. The river lords have submitted to the Iron Throne by the end of ADWD, but Littlefinger has not taken possession of Harrenhal yet and I don't think we are aware of any river lords having sworn vows to him either. Again, I think it would be better to have the template present the Tullys as the Great House as at the start of ASOIAF (like the other sites and reference material); House Baelish (of Harrenhal) and House Lannister (of Darry) could instead be mentioned in a Future Houses section of the template.

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Separately, are there any thoughts on the title of "Showdown at the Tower of Joy"? GRRM uses lower case in AGOT ("It was said that Rhaegar had named that place the tower of joy, but for Ned it was a bitter memory."), although he does use capitals in this SSM. "Showdown" reminds me of the Wild West and is a word that GRRM has not used. GRRM has not given this conflict a proper name yet, instead describing it with "They were seven, facing three" and "They were seven against three" in Ned's fever dream.


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We have been over the spoiler policy a number of times.


I suggested that we should use show / hide tags to prevent spoilers and that death dates should not be included in the family trees. However the majority held the opinion that there would be no prevent spoiler policy so I guess this applies to this as well.


Edited by Scafloc

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Either I've missed a few, or all the death dates have been removed from family trees a few months back.

This method does not work as well with Barristan Selmy, since (as far as the reader knows) he is absent from ACOK and "Arstan Whitebeard" is a new character. GRRM reveals Arstan to be Barristan in ASOS, a separate book; he is only clearly the same character in hindsight. Including the Arstan information in Barristan's ACOK section is a spoiler which can easily be avoided with separate topics. Similarly, Bran has dreams of the three-eyed crow in the early books, but it is not until ADWD that TEC is revealed to be Brynden Rivers. If someone wants to read about this mysterious crow after finishing AGOT, it is better to have separate topics on TEC and Bloodraven instead of having it redirect to Brynden Rivers.

I understand why people would be against it, but I think that this would be a good approach as well, but only if we also link to the respective pages (so "Barristan Selmy" should also link to "Arstan Whitebeard", and "Brynden Rivers" should link to "Three-Eyed Crow")

Another idea, would be to reveal in the wiki section of "A Storm of Swords" that Barristan was Whitebeard, and skip the entire "Clash of Kings" section". Same for mentioning Brynden being TEC on his own page.. No mention until the reveal in the books (Dance). For TEC and all other mentions, prior to Dance, can then be placed on a separate TEC page.

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