The ASOIAF wiki thread

[Abjiklam]

2 hours ago, direpupy said:

I'm not sure what you where going for, so i don't know which one is correct. But on the house pages of house Manderly and Dayne the infobox is now much bigger while on the page of house Lannister its stil the old size.

I have not looked at other house pages yet, and as i said i don't know what you where going for but this is what stood out for me.

It should now be fixed, thanks. You can see the intent by visiting the site on mobile.

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

The Aegon II page needs to be updated. It still says he could no longer walk after he jumped off Sunfyre but as F & B revealed, he actually could towards the end of his life with the help of a cane, dragging one (withered?) leg behind him.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

@The Grey Wolf Strikes Back Done.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

On 3/31/2023 at 12:14 PM, Abjiklam said:

It should now be fixed, thanks. You can see the intent by visiting the site on mobile.

There is still difference of infobox sizes. I'm not sure I understand what your intent was either.

[direpupy]

@Ran I am hoping you know they answer to this from your contacts with George, Rego Draz and Varys are both given the courtesy title of Lord because they are on the small council, is this something that was customary? Because if it is then Martyn Tyrell should also have this courtesy title and so should Tyland Lannister among others. But i do not want to put that on there pages without any proof that this was customary.

Thanks in advance.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

2 hours ago, direpupy said:

@Ran I am hoping you know they answer to this from your contacts with George, Rego Draz and Varys are both given the courtesy title of Lord because they are on the small council, is this something that was customary? Because if it is then Martyn Tyrell should also have this courtesy title and so should Tyland Lannister among others. But i do not want to put that on there pages without any proof that this was customary.

Thanks in advance.

I think there is a difference between the members of the small council who have a title prior to their appointment and those who don't. If they don't have one, they are respectfully called "Lord" or "Lady" (e.g. Rego Draz, Varys, Nymeria Sand). Ser Tyland Lannister is not refer to as "Lord" but his actual title of "Ser".

If I'm correct then Martyn Tyrell should be called "Lord" too.

In a perfect version of the story, GRRM should have created more distintive titles. IIRC this is something he debated doing early on but in the end it didn't happen. Varys, Rego and Martyn should be refer to as "Master", the Lords Paramount should be Dukes, a title should be reserved for the minor nobility/gentry to show their status in the feudal system, etc. Oh well too bad.

[direpupy]

35 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

I think there is a difference between the members of the small council who have a title prior to their appointment and those who don't. If they don't have one, they are respectfully called "Lord" or "Lady" (e.g. Rego Draz, Varys, Nymeria Sand). Ser Tyland Lannister is not refer to as "Lord" but his actual title of "Ser".

If I'm correct then Martyn Tyrell should be called "Lord" too.

In a perfect version of the story, GRRM should have created more distintive titles. IIRC this is something he debated doing early on but in the end it didn't happen. Varys, Rego and Martyn should be refer to as "Master", the Lords Paramount should be Dukes, a title should be reserved for the minor nobility/gentry to show their status in the feudal system, etc. Oh well too bad.

In the case of Rego Draz its specificaly mentioned that Jaehaerys granted him the title of Lord, this is where my doubt that this is a standard thing comes from, but on they other hand rego being granted this title may have started a tradition of doing so for those who serve on the small council.

I just do not want to put anything on the wiki for titleless people who served on the small council without some degree of certanty.

Edited April 7 by direpupy

[Ran]

I feel like the evidence is that it was done for people who fell outside of the feudal structure of Westeros (Rego and Varys are both foreigners, and common foreigners at that) to make them "fit" better. So yeah, if the text does not say Martyn and Tyland were styled as lords, we shouldn't have that in the wiki. 

[The Wondering Wolf]

On 5/20/2022 at 6:29 PM, Ran said:

Good call on these. What's the new site for the Italian wiki?

We'll have to figure out how to test if the others are gone or just moved.

I've stumbled upon a "new" Turkish Ice and Fire wiki on Fandom, so I'll leave a link here in case you want to change the interwiki link domain. Asoiaf Viki | Fandom

Edited April 25 by The Wondering Wolf

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

I have a suggestion to make regarding the family trees. How do you guys feel if we included the characters that have already died at the start of the books in brackets ? I'm only talking about the current family trees here, I would not touch the historical family trees.

For example in the Tyrell family tree, only Lord Luthor, Ser Luthor (son of Moryn), Ser Quentin, Ser Victor and Lord Jon Bulwer would be in brackets.

Thoughts ?

[The Wondering Wolf]

47 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

Thoughts

Do you have an idea about the number of characters whose status is unknown to us? Could be confusing if they are depicted alive when it's actually unclear.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

14 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Do you have an idea about the number of characters whose status is unknown to us? Could be confusing if they are depicted alive when it's actually unclear.

I've seen this process in other languages ASOIAF wiki and thought it could be done here too. I've not really considered that but better putting someone as alive until proven otherwise than dead and find out they are still alive later. Most of the characters that are concerned by this potnetial changes are those mentioned in the appendices.

[direpupy]

11 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

Thoughts ?

I agree with The Wondering Wolf on this, it will probably create confusion without it actually solving a problem. I think this is a case of don't try to fix what is not broken.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

Okay I won't change anything then.

[Devotee of Whimsy]

Hello, I would like to request a change to a webpage/list on the wiki. (https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Category:Prostitutes)

Jeyne Poole was never a prostitute. Being forced to marry a person for others' sociopolitical benefits is not equal to sex work, even sex work that is itself involuntary.

[The Wondering Wolf]

The template for the Dance of the Dragons says that the fall of King's Landing took place before the Battle at the Red Fork, although F&B covers the latter first. 

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

46 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

The template for the Dance of the Dragons says that the fall of King's Landing took place before the Battle at the Red Fork, although F&B covers the latter first. 

Yes but it seems to me the Battle at the Red Fork, the Retaking of Rook's Rest and the Fall of King's Landing occured at the same time or near enough as makes no matter as GRRM would put it.

I don't think the Mootons are mentioned to have joined Daemon at Harrenhal with the other black riverlords, tough perhaps they did. Unless I am misremembering something we don't hear about Daemon commanding the riverlords at all in between the Burning Mill/Stone Hedge and King's Landing, he just hangs out at Harrenhal with them. The riverlords who showed initiative in the field were only protecting their lands:

1. The Vances and Pipers defended their lands from the westermen invasion and lost the battle, just like they did at the start of the War of the Five Kings.
2. The Mootons saw an opportunity to take back Rook's Rest, which lies close to their lands, and took it.

[direpupy]

1 hour ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

Yes but it seems to me the Battle at the Red Fork, the Retaking of Rook's Rest and the Fall of King's Landing occured at the same time or near enough as makes no matter as GRRM would put it.

I don't think the Mootons are mentioned to have joined Daemon at Harrenhal with the other black riverlords, tough perhaps they did. Unless I am misremembering something we don't hear about Daemon commanding the riverlords at all in between the Burning Mill/Stone Hedge and King's Landing, he just hangs out at Harrenhal with them. The riverlords who showed initiative in the field were only protecting their lands:

1. The Vances and Pipers defended their lands from the westermen invasion and lost the battle, just like they did at the start of the War of the Five Kings.
2. The Mootons saw an opportunity to take back Rook's Rest, which lies close to their lands, and took it.

I would keep to the order of events in the book even if you are right and they happened simultaneous that is really no reason to change they order. 

[The Wondering Wolf]

I am not sure about some information given in the infobox of the Fall of King's Landing article. 

Commanders: I think Rhaenyra is missing as nominal commander of the blacks. On the other hand, I would remove Otto Hightower and Jasper Wylde. The former didn't even have any office at that point, and both of them aren't said to have acted as commanders in any way. I don't know about Gwayne Hightower, he was only second in command of the gold cloaks.

Strength: There wasn't any army of Daemon, since he came on his own. The blacks had an army which consisted of men from the crownlands. Where does this "few hundred knights, crossbowmen and men-at-arms" come from? I don't think we are given any numbers, and crossbowmen are not mentioned at all.

Casualties: While there was some fighting at one of the gates, it was a rather easy victory for the blacks and TWOIAF says the city fell "with little bloodshed" in comparison to the executions which took place in the aftermath. So "hundreds of green loyalists" is an assumption not based on the texts.

[direpupy]

45 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Casualties: While there was some fighting at one of the gates, it was a rather easy victory for the blacks and TWOIAF says the city fell "with little bloodshed" in comparison to the executions which took place in the aftermath. So "hundreds of green loyalists" is an assumption not based on the texts.

The casualties include the people executed in the aftermath, this would be everyone from the fall of Kingslanding to Rhaenyra having to flee. I'm not sure they should be included but i also do not see anywhere to mention them apart from this articel.