The ASOIAF wiki thread

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I think Barristan's Early Life section needs to be changed a bit. It currently reads:

Barristan was named to the KG by Hightower yes.

And Hightower heard his vows

But Jaehaerys is the one who gave him the cloak

I'm not sure if it's just currently awkwardly worded but I think it should be noted somewhere in there that Jaehaerys himself gave Barristan the cloak. Because my reading of what's written down currently makes it sound like Hightower did everything and Barristan was only accepted into the KG during Jaehaerys reign, whereas Jaehaerys actually bestowed him the cloak that made him a KG due to him personally having done a service to the realm.

I had always taken that last quote to mean that it had happened on Jaehaerys' orders..

The World of Ice and Fire does not clarify, nor does the app, as far as I am aware.

We could change it into

Barristan was named to the Kingsguard at the age of twenty-three and swore his vows before Ser Gerold Hightower, when King Jaehaerys II Targaryen bestowed the white cloak upon him.

?

[markg171]

I had always taken that last quote to mean that it had happened on Jaehaerys' orders..

The World of Ice and Fire does not clarify, nor does the app, as far as I am aware.

We could change it into

Barristan was named to the Kingsguard at the age of twenty-three and swore his vows before Ser Gerold Hightower, when King Jaehaerys II Targaryen bestowed the white cloak upon him.

?

Ya something like that works.

[HelenaExMachina]

ACOK suggests it is common practice for the King to personally bestow the White Cloak on new KG. But I agree with RT here

[thenedstark]

Anyone can edit the wiki, ICYDK

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Would it be an idea to retitle the reference to A World of Ice and Fire? Too often lately, I see people being confused, when checking the references on the wiki. Then post it is information from The World of Ice and Fire, while in reality, it is information from A World of Ice and Fire. Two completely different sources, yet people reading the wiki have trouble keeping them apart.

I would suggest either one of the following names:

• George R.R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire - A Game of Throne's Guide
  
• George R.R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire
  
• A World of Ice and Fire - A Game of Throne's Guide
  
• A World of Ice and Fire (Official App)
  

So, not retitle the page to the app, but retitle the entry in the reference templates.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Rhaenys_Targaryen

[markg171]

ACOK suggests it is common practice for the King to personally bestow the White Cloak on new KG. But I agree with RT here

Well Joffrey was the one who bestowed cloaks on Swann and Osmund, I know that. Swann got his for his bravery during the riot so it was a sign of the king thanking him I thought. Same as Barristan receiving his for killing Maelys.

But Jaime had his cloak given to him by Hightower, And we're told that Aerys made a huge deal of Jaime's entrance to the KG by doing it in front of half the realm and with every KG present. Yet Hightower put the cloak on him, and then Aerys promptly sent him away. So it seemed to me that Aerys wanted to make a big deal of having the youngest KG ever, but didn't want to give him favour as we know he was trying to slight Tywin.

[HelenaExMachina]

Well Joffrey was the one who bestowed cloaks on Swann and Osmund, I know that. Swann got his for his bravery during the riot so it was a sign of the king thanking him I thought. Same as Barristan receiving his for killing Maelys.

But Jaime had his cloak given to him by Hightower, And we're told that Aerys made a huge deal of Jaime's entrance to the KG by doing it in front of half the realm and with every KG present. Yet Hightower put the cloak on him, and then Aerys promptly sent him away. So it seemed to me that Aerys wanted to make a big deal of having the youngest KG ever, but didn't want to give him favour as we know he was trying to slight Tywin.

Aerys was mad, though, especially after Duskendale. I'm not terribly surprised he didnt put the cloak on Jaime himself. But like I said, I agree with what R_T said.

[Nittanian]

Would it be an idea to retitle the reference to A World of Ice and Fire? Too often lately, I see people being confused, when checking the references on the wiki. Then post it is information from The World of Ice and Fire, while in reality, it is information from A World of Ice and Fire. Two completely different sources, yet people reading the wiki have trouble keeping them apart.

I would suggest either one of the following names:

• George R.R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire - A Game of Throne's Guide
• George R.R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire
• A World of Ice and Fire - A Game of Throne's Guide
• A World of Ice and Fire (Official App)

So, not retitle the page to the app, but retitle the entry in the reference templates.

I'm not sure, since it is not named consistently.

*iTunes calls it "George R. R. Martin’s A World of Ice and Fire – A Game of Thrones Guide", while my iOS version internally describes it as "George R.R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire - A Companion to the A Song of Ice and Fire series.

*Google Play labels it as "A Game of Thrones Guide", at least on the purchase page.

*B&N Nook calls it "George R. R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire - A Game of Thrones Guide".

*GRRM's website describes it as "George R. R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire (Mobile App)".

*The publisher Random House lists it as "George R. R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire".

Since none of the platforms are more official than the other, the article could be moved to "George R. R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire", which is used by Random House and georgerrmartin.com. In contrast, Random House simply uses "The World of Ice and Fire" for the world book. If necessary, "(app)" could be added to the reference template: "A World of Ice and Fire (app)" or "George R. R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire (app)". Using "(Official App)" with the template would be misleading, as the capitals suggest it is part of the title.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Ran,

Before editing it into the Jon Connington page, I wanted to check with you if it isn't an editing error. In the appendix of A Dance with Dragons, Jon Connington is described as "once Lord of Storm's End". Is this indeed the case, or should it have said Griffin's Roost instead?

[Ran]

Griffin's Roost is intended, yes.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Thank you

[Bluetiger]

I think :) that there is mistake in "Winter is coming" article

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Winter_Is_Coming

Writing:

"Scripted by the show creators David Benioff and D. B. Weiss, the first episode includes the plot of the prologue and first SEX chapters of the book, the eighth, and the 11th (the second Daenerys chapter is pulled forward ahead of events that will be covered in the next episode)."

Edited January 20, 2015 by Blue Tiger

[Bluetiger]

I've made account on wiki and corrected it to "six chapters" ;)

[markg171]

In Jeor Mormont's History it says:

"Presumably, Jeor, as Lord of Bear Island, marched to war under Lord Eddard Stark's banner during Robert's Rebellion"

We know that Jorah was at the Trident so I'd say it's safe to say that Bear Island marched with Ned.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

In Jeor Mormont's History it says:

"Presumably, Jeor, as Lord of Bear Island, marched to war under Lord Eddard Stark's banner during Robert's Rebellion"

We know that Jorah was at the Trident so I'd say it's safe to say that Bear Island marched with Ned.

Bear Island, definly. But did Jeor himself? Or had he already joined the NW?

We don't know, so this is how that was solved for the time being.

[Nittanian]

I added a Recent Events section for Patchface, but his article is still filled with quotes and prophecy discussion. Maybe that would be more suitable for a Theories page?

[markg171]

Bear Island, definly. But did Jeor himself? Or had he already joined the NW?

We don't know, so this is how that was solved for the time being.

Now that I'm thinking it, I think Jeor might have been in the NW by that point.

Jorah remembers Rhaegar fighting Robert. Ned does as well. So they were together in the battle. Then we have Roose Bolton being present with Ned and Robert when Barristan was brought before them. That places Roose in the same place as Jorah and Ned.

Roose was presumably Lord of the Dreadfort by this point seeing as he had an heir in Domeric who was between 2-4, and he seems to have been a part of Ned and Robert's inner counsel. So if Roose was a Lord and was fighting beside Ned and Robert, then Jorah being there also would seem to indicate that he was a Lord too.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Now that I'm thinking it, I think Jeor might have been in the NW by that point.

Jorah remembers Rhaegar fighting Robert. Ned does as well. So they were together in the battle. Then we have Roose Bolton being present with Ned and Robert when Barristan was brought before them. That places Roose in the same place as Jorah and Ned.

Roose was presumably Lord of the Dreadfort by this point seeing as he had an heir in Domeric who was between 2-4, and he seems to have been a part of Ned and Robert's inner counsel. So if Roose was a Lord and was fighting beside Ned and Robert, then Jorah being there also would seem to indicate that he was a Lord too.

We discussed it a while back (starting here), but still haven't reached a definit conclusion.

Jorah was born roughly in 254 AC. He was married young (16?), which would (if truly around the age of 16) be roughly around 270 AC. Jorah then states he was married for 10 years, so his first wife died around 280 AC. Jorah only married Lynesse in 289 AC, so there's 9 years in between.

Jorah states that by the time his Glover wife died, his father had taken the black. The problem is, that we 1) have no indication of what Jorah considers marrying young (Robb Stark married young, but could a marriage at the age of 20 also be considered young? There are plenty of heirs who marry at a later age, like Edmure Tully), and thus cannot even guess as to when his marriage took place, 2) which leads us to being unable of saying roughly when his first wife died, and 3) "ten years" doesn't have to be exactly 10 years (it could be 11, it could be 9, etc. ).

The fact that we have only rough indications, and that the minima of those rough indications put is very close to the Rebellion, shows that it is still possible that Jeor was Lord of Bear Island in 282/283 AC. Yet, it is also possible that Jeor had already joined the Black by the time the Rebellion began.

Jeor rose quickly, and was elected LC in 289 AC.. How many years is "quickly"? Again, hard to say. Could be five, could be less... Could it also be more?

“Still, the island suited me well enough, and I never lacked for women. I had my share of fishwives and crofter’s daughters, before and after I was wed. I married young, to a bride of my father’s choosing, a Glover of Deepwood Motte. Ten years we were wed, or near enough as makes no matter. She was a plain-faced woman, but not unkind. I suppose I came to love her after a fashion, though our relations were dutiful rather than passionate. Three times she miscarried while trying to give me an heir. The last time she never recovered. She died not long after.”

Dany put her hand on his and gave his fingers a squeeze. “I am sorry for you, truly.”

Ser Jorah nodded. “By then my father had taken the black, so I was Lord of Bear Island in my own right. I had no lack of marriage offers, but before I could reach a decision Lord Balon Greyjoy rose in rebellion against the Usurper, and Ned Stark called his banners to help his friend Robert. The final battle was on Pyke. When Robert’s stonethrowers opened a breach in King Balon’s wall, a priest from Myr was the first man through, but I was not far behind. For that I won my knighthood.

I bolded all the parts that I discussed above. The last bolded sentence shows that when Jorah´s wife died, his father had already taken the Black, and Jorah was ruling in his own right. People offered him their daughters in marriage, but before he could reach a decision, Balon Greyjoy rose in rebellion. If Jorah´s wife did die around 280 AC, did heirless Jorah think 9 years about a marriage? Sounds a bit odd, showing once again that nothing definit can be stated.

There are a few possible scenario's... Jeor had joined the NW before the rebellion, and Jorah's wife died a few years later (which would make Jorah Lord of Bear Island during the Rebellion, and which would make the gap between his first wife dying, and his second marriage, shorter). Jeor joined only after the Rebellion had ended, and Jorah's first wife died afterwards. Or Jeor joined before the Rebellion, but Jorah's wife also died before the Rebellion (which would call into question both "rose quickly to LC" and "before I could make my decision").

So you could be right, it is possible that Jeor had joined the NW before the Rebellion (if need be, however shortly). At the same time, Jorah could also have been there fighting with his father, just with Jeor at the other side of the battle or something. It's not the case that only Lords are allowed to be in the battle :) Lord Corbray had both his sons with him, for example. Jeor and Jorah could both have been present..

And while Jeor is no longer around to make a mention of such (and IIRC, he never made a statement regarding a suggestion of being or not being present at the Trident), Jorah might eventually shed some light on the topic (for example if he just tells us when he became Lord.. "Bear Island had been mine for x years..." or something like that).

[Mychel_Redfort]

There's also this quote from Game 21 :

"Ser Alliser is an anointed knight, one of the few to take the black since I have been Lord Commander. He fought bravely at King's Landing."

There's a mistake here, because we know from Mance's story of his first meeting with Jon when he was a boy in Winterfell that Qorgyle was still Lord Commander then, so Jeor couldn't be Lord Commander during the Rebellion. But if Jeor meant "since I have joined the Night's Watch", then he had joined before the Rebellion.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

There's also this quote from Game 21 :

There's a mistake here, because we know from Mance's story of his first meeting with Jon when he was a boy in Winterfell that Qorgyle was still Lord Commander then, so Jeor couldn't be Lord Commander during the Rebellion. But if Jeor meant "since I have joined the Night's Watch", then he had joined before the Rebellion.

That could be. We know Jeor was elected in 289 AC. That's specified in the app. So this would then probably mean that Jeor was in the NW at least by Rebellions end, and I'd find it highly unlikely that a high Lord would join the NW in the middle of a rebellion, I'd say he his joined before..

Interesting.