Worst Husband in Westeros

[Ocean of Notions]

[quote name='Paxter' post='1729967' date='Mar 23 2009, 00.18']And I think that's exactly what Lucan is saying as regards Ned, and what what wakiki was saying about Tyrion - that they weren't perfect husbands but that doesn't mean they should be placed alongside Gregor and Ramsay. Fair enough. But this thread would not be half as interesting if the only nominees were Gregor, Victarion, Ramsay and Petyr. And interesting debate is what this board is all about :)[/quote]

And we've debated and I'm right. ;)

:leaving:

[Paxter]

[quote name='Ocean of Notions' post='1729970' date='Mar 23 2009, 13.24']And we've debated and I'm right. ;)[/quote]

And I agree with you. I think most women (if not all) would take Renly over Ramsay/Gregor/Craster any day, in spite of Renly's pre-determined infedelity and lack of actual love.

[wakiki]

[quote name='Paxter' post='1729936' date='Mar 22 2009, 22.09']There is no doubt that his treatment of Catelyn in regard to the matter of Jon Snow has caused her a great deal of pain. One only needs to look at Catelyn's deplorable treatment of Jon (a completely innocent child/adolescent) to see how deep Cat's hate for Ned's putative misdemenour runs. Does this make him the worst husband in Westeros? No. Does it mean he should at least be considered as a nominee, because the pain he has caused makes him a less-than-ideal husband? In my opinion, yes.[/quote]

Maybe he swore to keep it a secret. Perhaps, if he doesn't keep it a secret, it will put Jon's life in danger. This puts him in a lose-lose situation, and he certainly feels the pain associated with the choice he made, but it was still the better choice, and he dealt with the ensuing situation as best he could.

[quote name='Paxter' post='1729936' date='Mar 22 2009, 22.09']I knew it was a bit harsh including Tyrion on the list - he was completely unaware of Tywin's scheme when he watched the guards take her and then took her himself. And you only have to look at Tyrion's reaction when Jaime told him the truth to appreciate Tyrion's remorse and regret for what happened. But I still find it hard to believe that Tyrion, at 13 years of age, was physically and emotionally capable of fucking his young wife (she was around Sansa's age) after watching the (likely much older) Lannister guards have their way with her. It just seems so [i]wrong[/i]. So I felt compelled to include him on the list, despite the decent arguments against his inclusion.[/quote]

Well, he reflects later that he should have defied his father and not gone through with the act. It is pretty horrible, but just imagine what it would be like to have Tywin as your father. Defying Tywin Lannister is no easy feat, especially when you are 13.

[quote name='Paxter' post='1729936' date='Mar 22 2009, 22.09']So, crowning [i]Lyanna[/i] as Queen of Love and Beauty instead of Elia, his wife and the mother of his children, was being dutiful and kind?

As for Targs having multiple wives, I think Rhaegar's actions would have been more acceptable if Rhaegar had married Lyanna and Elia simultaneously and they both knew that they were part of a polygamous marriage (like with Aegon I and his sisters). But this was not the case. Elia married Rhaegar, not Rhaegar and Lyanna. Surely Rhaegar's first duty should be to Elia, if he really was a "good" husband.[/quote]

Hmm, true. I can agree with you about Rhaegar being a bad husband to Elia. To an extent.

[Rhaegar_Targaryen]

I think Ned is prob the best husband in ASOIAF. Catelyn was just annoyed because he "apparently" fathered a bastard. She compounded on the situation by being so damn cold towards Jon.

[Paxter]

[quote name='Rhaegar_Targaryen' post='1730007' date='Mar 23 2009, 15.39']I think Ned is prob the best husband in ASOIAF.[/quote]

Personally, my vote would be for Davos Seaworth or Garlan Tyrell. I doubt that either of these two would return home from their travels with an unexplained bastard ;).

Jorah Mormont probably also deserves a mention as a good husband: although his fervent desire to please Lynesse eventually proved to be his downfall.

Incidentally, what do people think Tywin was like as a husband? By all accounts, it seems that he was very devoted to Joanna. Khal Drogo is another interesting one we haven't mentioned yet.

[Rinso]

I'd say that both Tywin and Drogo were good husbands, based on what we saw or were told in the books. And funny enough, both of them were pretty horrible men outside of the marriage :wideeyed:

[Chalky]

[quote name='Rinso' post='1730038' date='Mar 23 2009, 03.00']I'd say that both Tywin and Drogo were good husbands, based on what we saw or were told in the books. And funny enough, both of them were pretty horrible men outside of the marriage :wideeyed:[/quote]
Drogo was probably very typicle of that society.

Ramsay's the worst husband and probably the worst person as well. Whats the odds on "Arya Stark's" survival?

[AquariumDrinker]

[quote name='Paxter' post='1730020' date='Mar 23 2009, 02.10']Personally, my vote would be for Davos Seaworth or Garlan Tyrell. I doubt that either of these two would return home from their travels with an unexplained bastard ;).[/quote]


Davos cheated quite a bit, I remember him talking about it in one of his chapters.

[krakenblood]

I would add Randyll Tarly to the list. He was pretty cold to his wife, yelled at her for being too gentle with their kids, and sent her first-born son off to the wall on threat of death. I wouldn't call that being a good husband.

[Lady Nymeria]

My first thought was Crastor, but then Ramsay and Gregor are pretty horrid as well. Joff would have made a terrible husband, considering how he treated his betrothed. Good thing we'll never know.

I think Robb may be one of the better husbands, though he never had a chance to prove himself otherwise.

I wonder, of all the young or unmarried guys we've met, who would make the best or worst husband? I imagine Bran and possibly Gendry would make good husbands. Theon and the Walders seem like they have the makings of being abusive or cheaters.

[arek]

[b]Worst Husbands[/b]

Gregor Clegane killed his first two wives.

Victarion Greyjoy, beat his wife to death.

Robert Baratheon (regardless of who he was married to).

Ramsay Snow, raped his wife & tossed her into a cell to starve to death.

Craster, raped his daughters & gave their sons to the Others.

Ursywk the faithful 2nd in command of the Bloody Murmers mentioned he killed his wife.


Good Husbands

As for Eddard Stark, he was a very good husband to Cat, if Jon wasn't his child but Lyannas (as many people believe) then he only lied to protect his sisters child, he never beat Cat or hurt her intentionally.

Drogo, despite being Dothraki was a good husband to Dany, she blossomed into a strong & confident woman because Drogo made a queen of her, he never beat her or treated her ill.

Kevan Lannister seems like a good husband, its mentioned in Cerseis chapters that he geniunely loves his wife & we get no evidence that he has been unfaithful.

Robb Stark marrying Jeyne may not have been wise, but Robb cared about her honor and genuninely loved her (we know she felt the same towards him).

[DomDayne]

[quote name='Ocean of Notions' post='1729748' date='Mar 22 2009, 22.50']What? How does that question even come into play when his "wives" are his daughters, whom he keeps ignorant and bound to him? His relationship with those women seem pretty damn twisted. I'd say he's one of the worst up there.[/quote]

I have to dissagree, while incest is definately frowned upon in Westeros, we know that it happens, and was openly practiced by the non-native Targs, Craster is beyond the Wall and has no interest in the laws and practices of those in the South, therefore what he is doing could be considered normal beyond the wall. His relationship seems twisted to us, yes, but my point was that he isn't treating them badly in comparrison to Robert or Littlefinger... id even say that Baelor the Blessed (might have the wonrg guy???) was worse, completely locking away his sisters/wives so HE wasn't tempted to touch them. Tottally taking away their freedom for a very selfish purpose...

[palaeologos]

[quote name='DomDayne' post='1729689' date='Mar 22 2009, 14.34']I would say Robert, and LittleFinger would be the worst husbands, for reasons mentioned in the first post...[/quote]

Lysa had it coming. You can argue that Petyr shouldn't have been the one to do it, but she deserved every inch of her flight.

[palaeologos]

[quote name='arek' post='1730298' date='Mar 23 2009, 09.12'][b]Worst Husbands[/b]


Victarion Greyjoy, beat his wife to death.[/quote]

I know this is going to sound harsh, but what did his wife expect would happen? She was playing with fire; when you're part of a warrior culture with an ethic that accepts brutal revenge for wrongs, you don't go screwing your husband's brother. Victarion's actions would be inappropriate in 21st-century America, but in the context of Westeros they fall well within the expected range of responses to such an action. It's a brutal world, but everybody knows the rules and the consequences of breaking them.

[Kimera757]

[quote name='DomDayne' post='1729689' date='Mar 22 2009, 17.34']Im not so sure about Craster though... While he does kill all the male children all the females (his wives) don't seem too unhappy if i recall, and he definately didn't kill them or cheat on them repeatedly (im not sure does polygamy count as adultery???)[/quote]

They seemed pretty upset when they tried to get Sam to kidnap one of their newborn sons.

Not that I think Gregor Clegane is any kind of a nice person, but I'm a bit surprised at all the speculation.

[CiaranAnnrach]

[quote name='DomDayne' post='1730317' date='Mar 23 2009, 11.25']I have to dissagree, while incest is definately frowned upon in Westeros, we know that it happens, and was openly practiced by the non-native Targs, Craster is beyond the Wall and has no interest in the laws and practices of those in the South, therefore what he is doing could be considered normal beyond the wall. His relationship seems twisted to us, yes, but my point was that he isn't treating them badly in comparrison to Robert or Littlefinger... id even say that Baelor the Blessed (might have the wonrg guy???) was worse, completely locking away his sisters/wives so HE wasn't tempted to touch them. Tottally taking away their freedom for a very selfish purpose...[/quote]

No, I'm pretty sure the wildlings thought he was pretty damn sick too. The Wildlings believed that "a true man steals a woman from afar, t'strengthen the clan. Women who bed brothers or fathers or clan kin offend the gods, and are cursed with weak and sickly children. Even monsters. ... Caster's blood is black, and he bears a heavy curse." I don't think there's anyone who thought what Craster was doing was kosher. Regardless, he can't be that great a husband if he's sacrificing all of his male children to the Others, without any consideration for his wife/daughter's wishes.

And I'd like to toss out my objections to Ned being listed as well - because despite all of that, Catelyn still loved and cared fro Ned very much. It's not Ned's fault that Catelyn is bat-shit crazy. Especially when Bran had fallen and she thought she was going to lose him.

[Errant Bard]

[quote name='CiaranAnnrach' post='1730460' date='Mar 23 2009, 19.17']And I'd like to toss out my objections to Ned being listed as well - because despite all of that, Catelyn still loved and cared fro Ned very much. It's not Ned's fault that Catelyn is bat-shit crazy.[/quote]Catelyn is not batshit crazy, and it's entirely Ned's fault that he lied to her and scared her into accepting a state of affair that made her hurt fester. In comparable news, even if your wife does become a bitch from hell, you are not less of a wife beater when you hit her.

[palaeologos]

[quote name='Errant Bard' post='1730483' date='Mar 23 2009, 11.33']Catelyn is not batshit crazy, and it's entirely Ned's fault that he lied to her and scared her into accepting a state of affair that made her hurt fester. In comparable news, even if your wife does become a bitch from hell, you are not less of a wife beater when you hit her.[/quote]

Would it have been justified if Robert had known Catelyn was screwing her brother? Or is not hitting your wife an absolute value?

[CiaranAnnrach]

[quote name='Errant Bard' post='1730483' date='Mar 23 2009, 13.33']Catelyn is not batshit crazy, and it's entirely Ned's fault that he lied to her and scared her into accepting a state of affair that made her hurt fester. In comparable news, even if your wife does become a bitch from hell, you are not less of a wife beater when you hit her.[/quote]

A matter of opinion, as I choose to disagree with you. At least, pre-Bran fall, and post assassination attempt, I will agree she appeared to be relatively normal (at least until UnCat.) After Bran fell, it's plainly obvious she was in a massive state of distress, and did not have her wits about her. She was neglecting her children, her duties, everything. That qualifies as "bat-shit crazy" to me, personally. Which, I'd like to point out it was in this state of mind that she was most hostile towards Jon.

It also seemed to me that a good deal of her resentment towards Jon was more based on her jealousy to the woman who bore him, who would cause Ned to protect her as he has. His resemblance after Ned only made things worse. She expected him to father bastards, after all, just not to bring them home to raise and care for them. It just seems to me to be another point of contention she has with men from the North.

I'd also like for you to point out where exactly Ned lied to her. Scared her? Yes, but due to the cold ice in his reply when she questioned him about Ashara. But as far as I know, he has never lied to her.

[Rakka]

Between Ramsay and Gruntor it's a hard call. I find it bloody strange that the dickfaces who are known to have killed and abused their wives didn't make it to the list until someone pointed them out, but "wah wah gays shouldn't marry beards! cheating!" Renly and "wah wah he kept a secret he swore his dying sister to keep!" Ned did... weird priorities.

[quote name='CiaranAnnrach' post='1730460' date='Mar 23 2009, 20.17']No, I'm pretty sure the wildlings thought he was pretty damn sick too.[/quote]

Not to mention that a wildling woman who doesn't like the way they are treated is likely to stab him in the first opportunity, not sneak to someone else to beg to take them away when their abuser is sleeping off their hangover with a sharp, nice axe on the table... What he does is not "fine" in any culture presented thus far, and personally I don't think that dickface should even be called wildling... he's probably some creepy fuck who dragged his first wife from south of the wall to live outside of any laws that he didn't set for himself.