Worst Husband in Westeros

[CiaranAnnrach]

[quote name='palaeologos' post='1730499' date='Mar 23 2009, 13.48']Would it have been justified if Robert had known Catelyn was screwing her brother? Or is not hitting your wife an absolute value?[/quote]

You're mistaking Catelyn for Cersei.

Robert hit Cersei, once in anger.
Eddard has never hit Catelyn.

Either way, that's somewhat of a poor analogy, since there's a big difference between beating your wife, and scaring her [b]once[/b] from the tone of his voice.

[Rinso]

Not to mention that Catelyn was one of the best wives in the books, while Cersei was probably the worst...

[CiaranAnnrach]

[quote name='Rinso' post='1730534' date='Mar 23 2009, 14.13']Not to mention that Catelyn was one of the best wives in the books, while Cersei was probably the worst...[/quote]

Though, by the logic used to condemn Eddard, Catelyn could be considered the worst for how she acted after Bran's fall, before the assassination attempt snapped her out of it. When she completely abandoned Rob and Rickon, who direly needed her, and shunned her duties as the lady of the house.

Aside from that, I'm inclined to agree with you.

[LianeM]

Gregor and Ramsay are obviously the worst husbands. I can't really see an argument for Renly or Ned being "worst." Slightly flawed, maybe, but that's human nature; by Westerosi standards they're both pretty golden.

Everybody else falls somewhere on the spectrum of "abuser" to "sometimes a dick" but doesn't strike me as completely, unlivably awful.

For best I'd go with Davos or Kevan Lannister, both of whom are noted as being totally in love with their distinctly-not-gorgeous wives. They're also both sensible, competent men who did well by their families, at least to the extent that they were able to influence their own fates.

Cersei's probably the worst wife, followed by Lysa.

Best wife would be a tougher call, because the women in Westeros have much more limited opportunities to shine. Margaery certainly plays a perfect political wife, even if she keeps getting terrible choices for mates. If she actually had a good husband I think she'd be pretty much unstoppable, and she seems to do her best to show affection to her husbands (there's a manipulative streak to her interactions with Tommen, but that's unavoidable given what a malleable little kid he is and the need to counteract Cersei's terrible influence; I don't get a mean-spirited vibe from what Marg's trying to do with him). So she gets my vote for best.

[Bolton Bastard]

I think you're confusing worse for worst.

No one is saying Ned is the worst husband (or at least no one sane anyway)
However, some people believe that keeping secrets and getting angry at something makes them worse. Can't say i agree with it, everyone has secrets, everyone lies, and everyone yells. Thinking a perfect husband won't have these things seems rather delusional to me.

[palaeologos]

[quote name='CiaranAnnrach' post='1730529' date='Mar 23 2009, 12.09']You're mistaking Catelyn for Cersei.

Robert hit Cersei, once in anger.
Eddard has never hit Catelyn.

Either way, that's somewhat of a poor analogy, since there's a big difference between beating your wife, and scaring her [b]once[/b] from the tone of his voice.[/quote]

Oops, sorry. I meant Cersei, not Catelyn.

[CiaranAnnrach]

[quote name='Bolton Bastard' post='1730567' date='Mar 23 2009, 14.42']I think you're confusing worse for worst.

No one is saying Ned is the worst husband (or at least no one sane anyway)
However, some people believe that keeping secrets and getting angry at something makes them worse. Can't say i agree with it, everyone has secrets, everyone lies, and everyone yells. Thinking a perfect husband won't have these things seems rather delusional to me.[/quote]

More than that, I think every couple needs to have a good fight every once and awhile. Keeps things healthy. Always agreeing and never arguing isn't healthy, IMO, unless you're into that whole master/slave 24/7 thing.

[Rinso]

[quote name='CiaranAnnrach' post='1730541' date='Mar 23 2009, 14.20']Though, by the logic used to condemn Eddard, Catelyn could be considered the worst for how she acted after Bran's fall, before the assassination attempt snapped her out of it. When she completely abandoned Rob and Rickon, who direly needed her, and shunned her duties as the lady of the house.

Aside from that, I'm inclined to agree with you.[/quote]
After Bran's fall and before the assassination attempt she was in a state of horrible depression. Its more than perfectly understandable and I don't think that anyone should blame her for that (though some folks do it, begrudging her for her harsh attitude towards Jon in that moment). I happen to agree that Bran and Rickon needed her more than Robb, to whom she was more a nuisance rather than help most of the time, but again, compared to some parents in Westeros, she was an angel.

[alguien]

Why do people keep forgetting that Davos himself has mentioned knowing numerous women outside of his marriage?

And the way he thought about it was pretty casual as well, so I don't think this is any big deal to him.

Not saying he isn't a good man overall, but Davos is less faithful than Ned was, by all the evidence we're given.

[CiaranAnnrach]

[quote name='Rinso' post='1730585' date='Mar 23 2009, 14.56']After Bran's fall and before the assassination attempt she was in a state of horrible depression. Its more than perfectly understandable and I don't think that anyone should blame her for that (though some folks do it, begrudging her for her harsh attitude towards Jon in that moment). I happen to agree that Bran and Rickon needed her more than Robb, to whom she was more a nuisance rather than help most of the time, but again, compared to some parents in Westeros, she was an angel.[/quote]

Oh, I know Rinso. I don't begrudge her emotional instability during that time, and I sympathize with her. Doesn't mean I don't cringe when I read how she treated Jon and neglected her children, but I have a feeling most women would have acted like that in that situation. (And some men, too, for that matter.) I'm just using it as a tool to point out some of the flaws I perceive in the charges brought against Eddard.

[palaeologos]

[quote name='Nadie' post='1730587' date='Mar 23 2009, 12.56']Why do people keep forgetting that Davos himself has mentioned knowing numerous women outside of his marriage?

And the way he thought about it was pretty casual as well, so I don't think this is any big deal to him.

Not saying he isn't a good man overall, but Davos is less faithful than Ned was, by all the evidence we're given.[/quote]

This makes me wonder whether (in Westeros) fidelity is really expected of husbands. Clearly, it is of wives; but in the books wives seem to regard the infidelities of their husbands as insulting, especially if engaged in openly, but not necessarily as a betrayal (as a husband might regard the infidelity of his wife). We don't read too much of wives killing unfaithful husbands in Westeros, although the reverse happens often enough.

[Knight Of The North]

I think Victarion is being judged a little harshly (only a little). His Wife apparently slept( though it is rumoured it was rape) with his brother, and this is utterly unacceptable, especially for a seasoned battle commander. I can understand maybe kicking her out in disgrace, but killing her is abit far.

Ramsay takes the cake and runs a few marathons with it for me. He just raped his Wife, casually, then threw her away. Bit harsh.

[CiaranAnnrach]

Not to mention, Ramsey forced his wife to marry him in the first place. It wasn't exactly her choice, if I remember correctly.

[The_BlauerDragon]

My vote for "Worst Husband" would be the same as my vote for "Worst Father"... Craster!

[Errant Bard]

[quote name='palaeologos' post='1730499' date='Mar 23 2009, 19.48']Would it have been justified if Robert had known Cersei was screwing her brother? Or is not hitting your wife an absolute value?[/quote]I don't know, do the fists connect less hard when you know something than when you don't?


[quote name='CiaranAnnrach' post='1730522' date='Mar 23 2009, 20.05']I'd also like for you to point out where exactly Ned lied to her. Scared her? Yes, but due to the cold ice in his reply when she questioned him about Ashara. But as far as I know, he has never lied to her.[/quote]Nitpick much? You know that I'm talking about a lie by omission, just as much as you know that Ned isn't blame-free when it comes to Catelyn, and her personality has nothing to do with what he does.

Oh, also, it is not men of the north who raise their bastards differently. It's Ned, just Ned. I dare you, find another lord with lawful wife and heirs who asks her to raise his bastard alongside his trueborn children, find even only a hint other lords might consider it without it being presented as a scandal.

[palaeologos]

[quote name='Errant Bard' post='1730808' date='Mar 23 2009, 15.35']I don't know, do the fists connect less hard when you know something than when you don't?[/quote]

Even the best of people can be pushed into bad deeds. Not that I'm arguing that Robert is one of the best, or even a particularly good person; but cutting her spouse off, aborting his child, and doing herbest to circumvent his efforts to rule his kingdom seem like overreactions to his calling her by someone else's name in bed--especially considering that Cersei's been sleeping with Jaime since before she married Robert, and doesn't seem to have had any intention of stopping.

[The_BlauerDragon]

[quote name='Rinso' post='1730534' date='Mar 23 2009, 12.13']Not to mention that Catelyn was one of the best wives in the books, while Cersei was probably the worst...[/quote]
I disagree with that statement.

[Ser Lucan]

[quote name='Errant Bard' post='1730483' date='Mar 23 2009, 13.33']Catelyn is not batshit crazy, and it's entirely Ned's fault that he lied to her and scared her into accepting a state of affair that made her hurt fester. In comparable news, even if your wife does become a bitch from hell, you are not less of a wife beater when you hit her.[/quote]

I think people put too much of Catelyn's emotional weaknesses onto Ned. She could have been more forgiving, more understanding, more emotionally strong.

Given the Westeros universe, Ned is one of the top three husbands in the series. An amazing father, a good husband, strong, brave, honorable - I refuse to add my endorsement to his inclusion in this list.

[Ser Lucan]

[quote name='Kimera757' post='1730436' date='Mar 23 2009, 12.57']Not that I think Gregor Clegane is any kind of a nice person, but I'm a bit surprised at all the speculation.[/quote]

Given his obviously sociopathic tendencies, and the heavily implied sinister shenanigans taking place in his keep, I think it's fair to assume the worst about his wives.

[Ocean of Notions]

[quote name='DomDayne' post='1730317' date='Mar 23 2009, 12.25']I have to dissagree, while incest is definately frowned upon in Westeros, we know that it happens, and was openly practiced by the non-native Targs, Craster is beyond the Wall and has no interest in the laws and practices of those in the South, therefore what he is doing could be considered normal beyond the wall. His relationship seems twisted to us, yes, but my point was that he isn't treating them badly in comparrison to Robert or Littlefinger... id even say that Baelor the Blessed (might have the wonrg guy???) was worse, completely locking away his sisters/wives so HE wasn't tempted to touch them. Tottally taking away their freedom for a very selfish purpose...[/quote]

Again, what Craster does is acceptable in no society currently described in Westeros. He systematically enslaves (basically) his own daughters, keeps them ignorant of the outside world, and murders their children. As far as I remember, they weren't exactly thrilled with the arrangement.