Swordfish Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 [quote name='snake' post='1739150' date='Mar 30 2009, 15.36']If she has a mental illness and it can be successfully treated then she should be allowed to reintegrate into society. IF she has a mental illness that is. My Uncle was almost killed by his first cousin who was suffering from schizophrenia. The man spent one year in a treatment facility and has been living home ever since and has lived a normal life thus far.[/quote] I thought the determination had already been made that she did not have a mental illness? Either way, there is no real way to be CERTAIN that anyone will not lapse back into this kind of behavior, which was the assurance you were looking for. As far as schizophrenia goes, i don't doubt that your friend has been living a normal life, but that he will continue to do so is far from certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khaleesi Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 [quote name='Swordfish' post='1739153' date='Mar 31 2009, 12.39']I thought the determination had already been made that she did not have a mental illness? Either way, there is no real way to be CERTAIN that anyone will not lapse back into this kind of behavior, which was the assurance you were looking for. As far as schizophrenia goes, i don't doubt that your friend has been living a normal life, but that he will continue to do so is far from certain.[/quote] As far as I know, if people with a mental illness are on the right meds to control their illness, and stay on them, they are likely to lead a normal life. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 [quote name='Swordfish' post='1739153' date='Mar 30 2009, 18.39']I thought the determination had already been made that she did not have a mental illness?[/quote] That's true although I hadn only skimmed the article and failed to notice that. With that as the case then she most certainly should go to jail. That is the law. Although, I still do think she is mentally ill. According to one expert quoted in the story there can be an overlap between extreme religious conviction and delusion but it is a difficult area for psychiatry and the legal system to judge. IMO, the woman is delusional and needs psychiatric help. [quote]Either way, there is no real way to be CERTAIN that anyone will not lapse back into this kind of behavior, which was the assurance you were looking for. As far as schizophrenia goes, i don't doubt that your friend has been living a normal life, but that he will continue to do so is far from certain.[/quote] Well, we cannot be certain of what anyone will do throughout their lives including people without a mental illness. However, my friend (second cousin or first cousin once removed?) has been 'well' for 20 years or so now and I sincerely believe he will remain that way as long as he keeps taking his medication and his wife makes certain of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='The Khaleesi' post='1739173' date='Mar 30 2009, 15.54']As far as I know, if people with a mental illness are on the right meds to control their illness, and stay on them, they are likely to lead a normal life. Do you have evidence to the contrary?[/quote] IF they stay on their meds.... IF there are no other influencing factors.... etc, etc, etc.... The very presence of the 'if' in your post precludes any certainty about future behavior. [quote name='snake' post='1739177' date='Mar 30 2009, 15.57']That's true although I hadn only skimmed the article and failed to notice that. With that as the case then she most certainly should go to jail. That is the law. Although, I still do think she is mentally ill. According to one expert quoted in the story there can be an overlap between extreme religious conviction and delusion but it is a difficult area for psychiatry and the legal system to judge. IMO, the woman is delusional and needs psychiatric help.[/quote] Definitely she needs some help. I think she also needs jail time though. [quote]Well, we cannot be certain of what anyone will do throughout their lives including people without a mental illness. However, my friend (second cousin or first cousin once removed?) has been 'well' for 20 years or so now and I sincerely believe he will remain that way as long as he keeps taking his medication and his wife makes certain of that.[/quote] I think that's great. It's definitely not impossible. but it's not certain. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Swordfish' post='1739182' date='Mar 30 2009, 19.03']Definitely she needs some help. I think she also needs jail time though.[/quote] If they say she's sane she certainly does need to go to jail. While there she can get counselling and what have you. [quote]I think that's great. It's definitely not impossible. but it's not certain. ;)[/quote] As I said, you cannot be certain about anyone really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='snake' post='1739187' date='Mar 30 2009, 16.08']If they say she's sane she certainly does need to go to jail. While there she can get counselling and what have you. As I said, you cannot be certain about anyone really.[/quote] Cool. Then we agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Swordfish' post='1739192' date='Mar 30 2009, 19.10']Cool. Then we agree![/quote] I know, although there's not much fun in that. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meili Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I have self exhaled myself from pointless atheist/religious debates. But this really doesn't qualify as a religious debate. While the word delusional can be applied to many religions, this is a case where these beliefs cannot be tolerated in ours nor any civilized society. This is factually detrimental to civilization as we know it and is deliberately murder. This isn't a religion, this is a cult of people that should be arrested if they do not desist from these beliefs or punished for deeds previously committed. Much like Jim Jones's cult should have been investigated prior to that tragic day, groups like this do not get the religious freedom associated to others in matters of law (like marijuana, taxes, exemption from the draft etc.). Just like a white supremecy group cannot lynch blacks, cults cannot be allowed the harmful and deadly practices like this. So I was a bit suprised to read TP's initial post myself. ETA grammer correction of repeated word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='snake' post='1739207' date='Mar 30 2009, 16.17']I know, although there's not much fun in that. :P[/quote] I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Crazy people are crazy people, regardless of the name of their imaginary friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BlauerDragon Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Here's a thought. Maybe we could give her the death penalty, and just tell her that she would be granted a full pardone as soon as she resurrects herself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrim Fox Cauthon Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Stego' post='1739233' date='Mar 30 2009, 20.40']Crazy people are crazy people, regardless of the name of their imaginary friend.[/quote]Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khaleesi Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I just wonder if sometimes crazy people actually become even more crazy when they are supported by, or surrounded by a religious group or cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Concentrated crazy, nutbags have a way of flocking together, just look at 4chan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Swordfish' post='1739218' date='Mar 30 2009, 19.27']I disagree.[/quote] You would be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Swordfish' post='1739153' date='Mar 30 2009, 19.39']I thought the determination had already been made that she did not have a mental illness?[/quote] The determination was that she was not criminally insane, the definition of which was established by judges and legislators, not psychologists; so even if she wasn't criminally insane, that doesn't mean that she doesn't have a mental illness. Many people in prison are mentally ill, even if they're not criminally insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khaleesi Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='The Khaleesi' post='1739302' date='Mar 31 2009, 14.27']I just wonder if sometimes crazy people actually become even more crazy when they are supported by, or surrounded by a religious group or cult.[/quote] I am weirdly replying to my own post here, because I've been thinking about it more and realise that, although it applies in groups like scientology (where they don't believe in psychiatric drugs), or some of the more extreme fundamentalist religions; it also applies to non-religious groups like some of the nuttier new age ones. (Breatharians, those people who do rebirthing, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna vander Poele Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='TerraPrime' post='1738993' date='Mar 30 2009, 13.03']Re: EHK I know we differ on this. I think it should be legal for a Jehova's Witness to refuse blood transfusion for his/her child because the act violates his/her religious faith. This will often result in adverse health effects, and probably death, for the child. I'm okay with that. Children are victims of the circumstances of their birth all the time.[b] Freedom to practice one's chosen religion is more important, imo, than the death of a few children. [/b]Now, if the practice is more popular and the fatality rate of children is much higher because of religious beliefs, then I might revise my view. As it stands, cases like this are rare and infrequent, when compared to the vast majority of religious households.[/quote] Oh TerraPrime no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Khaleesi Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 What about the parents who refuse transfusions and leave their kids mother- or father-less? Freedom to practise religion is not worth one child's life, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max the Mostly Mediocre Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='Benjen Stark' post='1738983' date='Mar 30 2009, 12.54']When the lady spends days on end praying over the corpse and seems to fully believe in the eyes of a psychologist that her child will resurrect, I tend to agree that the first and foremost thing she needs is deprogramming. If she regains a semblance of sanity, she will very likely inflict more punishment upon herself than prison ever could.[/quote] These two sentences seem contradictory to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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