Shevchyk Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Though admittedly, AFFC was a nice breather and means by which to set up the global reactions to the event of the first three books. The approach makes sense. That said, the idea of having a five-year gap is intriguing, and I'd love to some day find out what he'd had in mind before he started the book anew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Imp's Advocate Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I dunno, in terms of overall plot development AFFC wasn't very impressive (we will go over the same time period just with different characters in aDwD), but the character progression was good. Brienne has, IMO, reached the midpoint of her saga (which word did she say?), we get more knowledge about Cersei than we did in the other 3 books combined, and Jaime seems to be moving steadily along his redemption arc (equal progression in aSoS and AFFC, maybe more in Feast). So, even though it lacked some of my favorite characters, and it IS my least favorite book, I wouldn't say it is a dissapointment in the series. Just a book of the same quality as the others subjected to unfortunate coincidences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Apart from that, there's also a wee reference in GRRM's Westeros-based short story The Sworn Sword, where the rather fiery main female character indulges in some gratuitious braid-tuggingIIRC, she also does the braid-tugging and then goes, "Ow!" because, mysteriously, trying to pull your hair out of your scalp is in fact rather painful ;) The WoT comic adaption actually features some art of the braid-tugging in process. They've actually put some thought into this and concluded that when Nynaeve tugs her braid, she first generates some slack with one hand and then does the tugging with the other, so rather than trying to pull her own hair out she is just pulling on the slack.In other series this would be unnecessary detail, but given that Nynaeve tugs her braid 437 times per book, it's clearly something they needed to decide on early in the story ;) When doing the re-read I was going to keep track of how many times per book Nynaeve tugs her braid or a female character folds her arms under her breasts, but I lost the will to carry on about five chapters in to EotW. The only answer that can be given for both is "a lot". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 The WoT comic adaption actually features some art of the braid-tugging in process. They've actually put some thought into this and concluded that when Nynaeve tugs her braid, she first generates some slack with one hand and then does the tugging with the other, so rather than trying to pull her own hair out she is just pulling on the slack.That isn't the "true" braid tugging, however. There are several times when someone (or Nynaeve herself) comments that they were afraid she would pull her hair out from the roots. Which means there is no slack.*Mutters at the disrespect shown to Jordan. They're untrue to his vision! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shevchyk Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 The WoT comic adaption actually features some art of the braid-tugging in process. They've actually put some thought into this and concluded that when Nynaeve tugs her braid, she first generates some slack with one hand and then does the tugging with the other, so rather than trying to pull her own hair out she is just pulling on the slack.Oh My Goodness! *tries not to laugh*Something about that picture looks so desperately wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 With god as her witness, she will tug that braid. Getting a huge Gone with the Wind vibe from that artwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Lord Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 *places fists firmly on hips* *crosses arms underneath breasts* *tugs braid*Werthead, that was very irresponsible! I expect that from Mat, but I thought you at least had grown up! Obviously, you dolt, you haven't! Do you have anything but hair and muscle between your ears?! I know men don't get their proper wits about them for ten years, but you can at least show proper respect!*uncrosses arms* *releases braid* *removes fists* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 So, even though {AFFC} lacked some of my favorite characters, and it IS my least favorite book, I wouldn't say it is a dissapointment in the series. Just a book of the same quality as the others subjected to unfortunate coincidences.Very true. I think this is where the comparisons to WOT collapse; although I never got past about quarter of the way through TSR and therefore have no direct experience of the rest of the series, I've never heard a Jordan fan saying that they thought Crossroads of Twilight had as much literary merit as the rest of the series, or that they liked it as much as The Great Hunt (I like AFFC a lot more than AGOT, as much as or maybe more than ACOK.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabel Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Very true. I think this is where the comparisons to WOT collapse; although I never got past about quarter of the way through TSR and therefore have no direct experience of the rest of the series, I've never heard a Jordan fan saying that they thought Crossroads of Twilight had as much literary merit as the rest of the series, or that they liked it as much as The Great Hunt (I like AFFC a lot more than AGOT, as much as or maybe more than ACOK.).I could say it... I even think Crossroads is better than TGH. You are not listening on the right places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 You learn something new every day. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irriadin Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I could say it... I even think Crossroads is better than TGH. You are not listening on the right places.The portal stone alternate-reality scene alone in TGH is better than the entirety of Crossroads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 The portal stone alternate-reality scene alone in TGH is better than the entirety of Crossroads.And the Hall scene in CoT is better than all the politics in tGH. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTinyKittens Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Not to mention the very well-done scene involving:SPOILER: for the OP who hasn't read this farthe Horn of Valere and the Heroes fighting against the Seanchan. Still stands out in my mind as one of the best scenes of WoT, along with Perrin's last battle in TSR and Rand's experiences in the ter'angreal in Rhuidean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irriadin Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 And the Hall scene in CoT is better than all the politics in tGH. What's your point?What's the point of saying one book is better than another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaesterLuwin Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 What's the point of saying one book is better than another?Figuring out which books you like in comparison to other books help you become aware of what you like and dislike in reading books. This, in turn, helps you make intelligent decisions about what to read next, as well as give you more awareness in the strengths and weaknesses of books you recommend to others.It also gives us something to do while waiting for the next book to come out. So, for what it's worth, my top five scenes from the series. In no particular order. SPOILER: Wheel of Time1. The Horn of Valere is blown and the Seanchan are driven back to the sea. ("Well, the Horn has to be at the last battle. No one says it can't be blown before then...")2. The rings of Rhuidean. ("I am still Aiel!")3. Mat enters the ter'angreal in Tear. ("Go to Rhuidean, son of battles! Go to Rhuidean, trickster! Go to Rhuidean, gambler!"4. Rand cleanses saidin.5. The battle of Dumai's Wells. ("Kneel to the Dragon Reborn...or you will be knelt.")Honorable mentions go to Moiraine's battle with Lanfear at the docks, and when Mat finally realizes who the Daughter of the Nine Moons really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I was always a big fan of:SPOILER: WOTMat's first battle versus the Gholem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 You learn something new every day. :)It should be pointed out that the number of people who hold that view of CoT on the entire planet can probably be safely counted on the fingers of one hand.Even on the Jordan fansites, CoT is near-universally regarded as the worst book (PoD comes in second) in the series by some considerable margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuenjato Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I could say it... I even think Crossroads is better than TGH. You are not listening on the right places.If you don't mind, Isabel, would you post your rankings of the series? Fionwe1987 as well, if you wish. It would be interesting to see the ranking of someone who likes the later books as much as (if not more?? :stunned: ) than the earlier ones.My personal list:4: TSR 2: TGH3: TDR 1: EotW 5: TFH7: ACoS6: LoC11: KoD (tie with:)9: WH8: PoD10: CoT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 It should be pointed out that the number of people who hold that view of CoT on the entire planet can probably be safely counted on the fingers of one hand.Even on the Jordan fansites, CoT is near-universally regarded as the worst book (PoD comes in second) in the series by some considerable margin.PoD gets ragged on because:1) it was the first of the "shorter" books in the series2) it was the around the start of the longish waits between books period3) it didn't have MatBut it's really not that bad. I think more interesting stuff happens in it then in WH, it just lacks WH's big whammy conclusion.On reread, my opinion of the book increased alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Who Was Promised Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I guess once the series is ended, WoT will be far easier to rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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