Guy Gavriel Kay

[Lord Patrek]

I was asked to wait before posting my review for A Brightness Long Ago. Now that the pub date is just a few weeks away, you can now check it out here.

Not as sprawling or as vast in scope as Under Heaven or River of Stars, Kay's latest remains another memorable read.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Lord Patrek said:

I was asked to wait before posting my review for A Brightness Long Ago. Now that the pub date is just a few weeks away, you can now check it out here.

Not as sprawling or as vast in scope as Under Heaven or River of Stars, Kay's latest remains another memorable read.

Many thanks.  So, I would guess it takes place about 30 years before the events of Children of Earth and Sky?

My impression (from the latter) was that the fall of Sarantium and subsequent conquest of the Balkans equivalent was a far swifter process than in real life.  The Empress was described as having had the East at her feet when she was young, which suggests the Empire was still a great power until it fell, unlike 15th century Byzantium.

 

[Lord Patrek]

Something like that. There are no exact dates, but the tale begins a year or so before the fall of Sarantium and ends not long after news reach the West that it has fallen.

As mentioned in the review, I'm dearly hoping for a book or series that will focus on the fall of Sarantium and its aftermath.

[Cithrin's Ale]

13 hours ago, Lord Patrek said:

Something like that. There are no exact dates, but the tale begins a year or so before the fall of Sarantium and ends not long after news reach the West that it has fallen.

As mentioned in the review, I'm dearly hoping for a book or series that will focus on the fall of Sarantium and its aftermath.

This places the novel before Children of Earth and Sky in Kay's European setting, chronology-wise. Thank you for telling us!

I'm not quite sure if Kay succeeded in his goal of balancing the five principal characters of Children of Earth and Sky. Marin didn't feel like he had quite the same emphasis placed on him in the work as Danica, Pero and Leonora. I still really like the work, however.

A novel depicting the fall of Sarantium would allow Kay to juxtapose Gurcu (his version of Mehmet II) in Children of Earth and Sky with his younger self, so I'd be interested in that. As a tangent, I can't recall if there's any references in Children of Earth and Sky to the Fourth Crusade, which is one of the key events that broke the back of Byzantine power.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Cithrin's Ale

[SansaJonRule]

On 5/6/2009 at 7:47 PM, Prince Who Was Promised said:

Was the Fionavar Tapestry any good?

 

On 5/6/2009 at 8:22 PM, williamjm said:

 

I'd say it was reasonably good, but not as good as Kay's other books, and different in that it is a fairly traditional High Fantasy with mages, elves (called the Lios Alfar, but they're fairly close to traditional elves), dwarves (who are actually called dwarves), dragons, an evil god in a dark fortress, bits of Arthur legend (including Arthur, Lancelot and Guinevere as major characters) etc. Some bits of it are very good (the three nights on the Summer Tree, for example) but some bits I was unconvinced by. My biggest problems with it were mostly related to the five main characters who come from modern-day (well, the 1980s) Canada and are essentially kidnapped by a mage to join the fight against the evil god in Fionavar. I'm not particularly keen on that plot device in general, and there quite a few times when I found the reactions of the modern-day Canadians to the medieval fantasy realm to be unconvincing, they were just too accepting of some of the wild things they saw and the radically different society they encountered.

I agree with 'williamjm'. I loved the use of Celtic lore in the first 2 books of the trilogy, and I did like the basic idea of transporting modern day people into a medieval fantasy realm, even if it was not always executed very well. I hated the inclusion of Authurian legend. That was just too much to take. It's been more than a decade since I've read it, but I recall the ending feeling out of sync with the rest of the story.

I'm thrilled to see a GGK thread on here cuz I love his books but no one I talk to ever seems to have heard of him. My favorite was Last Light of the Sun, followed by the Sarantium Mosaic. One of the things I liked to do was after I read the book was to read about the historical period and events on which they are based.

[SansaJonRule]

I am sure this book has been discussed, but as there are 20 pages of discussion on this thread and I don't know any way to search a thread...comments/feelings about Ysabel? I have read and loved most of GKK's books, but every time I read the description of Ysabel, it just doesn't grab me.

[williamjm]

2 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

I agree with 'williamjm'. I loved the use of Celtic lore in the first 2 books of the trilogy, and I did like the basic idea of transporting modern day people into a medieval fantasy realm, even if it was not always executed very well. I hated the inclusion of Authurian legend. That was just too much to take. It's been more than a decade since I've read it, but I recall the ending feeling out of sync with the rest of the story.

When I saw the notification about a reply to a post in this thread, I wasn't expecting it to be quoting something I said almost 10 years ago. I haven't really changed my mind on it since then, but I will say that I do still remember clearly some of the scenes in the book despite it being over a decade since I read it, so it must be doing something right.

3 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

I am sure this book has been discussed, but as there are 20 pages of discussion on this thread and I don't know any way to search a thread...comments/feelings about Ysabel? I have read and loved most of GKK's books, but every time I read the description of Ysabel, it just doesn't grab me.

It isn't a bad book, I enjoyed it but I wouldn't rank it among his best books. There did seem something disconcerting about Kay writing a modern teenager, although he does still manage to throw in plenty of history as well to form the backstory.

[SeanF]

On 10 April 2019 at 12:37 PM, Cithrin's Ale said:

This places the novel before Children of Earth and Sky in Kay's European setting, chronology-wise. Thank you for telling us!

I'm not quite sure if Kay succeeded in his goal of balancing the five principal characters of Children of Earth and Sky. Marin didn't feel like he had quite the same emphasis placed on him in the work as Danica, Pero and Leonora. I still really like the work, however.

A novel depicting the fall of Sarantium would allow Kay to juxtapose Gurcu (his version of Mehmet II) in Children of Earth and Sky with his younger self, so I'd be interested in that. As a tangent, I can't recall if there's any references in Children of Earth and Sky to the Fourth Crusade, which is one of the key events that broke the back of Byzantine power.

One minor comment I'd make is that (to me) Gurcu is a mix of Mehmet II and Suleiman the Magnificent, given that his armies have conquered the entire (fantasy) Balkans.

In the same way that I saw Leontius as a combination of Belisarius and Leo III (the Iconoclast).

Edited April 22, 2019 by SeanF

[SansaJonRule]

54 minutes ago, williamjm said:

When I saw the notification about a reply to a post in this thread, I wasn't expecting it to be quoting something I said almost 10 years ago. I haven't really changed my mind on it since then, but I will say that I do still remember clearly some of the scenes in the book despite it being over a decade since I read it, so it must be doing something right.

It isn't a bad book, I enjoyed it but I wouldn't rank it among his best books. There did seem something disconcerting about Kay writing a modern teenager, although he does still manage to throw in plenty of history as well to form the backstory.

OMG!!!!   That must have been some surprise! I didn't even look at the date this thread started. In fact, I didn't know this forum was that old.

What about the Under Heaven books?

[Cithrin's Ale]

13 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

OMG!!!!   That must have been some surprise! I didn't even look at the date this thread started. In fact, I didn't know this forum was that old.

What about the Under Heaven books?

I am very biased and forgive Kay for most of his faults, but I'll give my thoughts on this. Under Heaven feels like Kay is writing 'about' characters rather than from their perspective. It doesn't feel as 'personal' as Lions of Al-Rassan or Song for Arbonne. It's hard to describe, admittedly. I do love the work, however. I like the descriptions of the nature in the work and feel that Kay's commentary on historical forces works best in this work. 

River of Stars is interesting in that it explores the eventual consequences of the political conflict in Under Heaven. It makes the books feel like a duology of sorts. I also appreciate that it has a character who is thinking of his role in history. The book is very much focused on military events. In all honesty, it sort of feels like Kay tried to do his version of a Bernard Cornwell novel.

SeanF, I never made the association between Suleiman and Gurcu. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I always found myself thinking of Suleiman when I read about Brandin in Tigana, however; Brandin and Dianora feel like a parallel to Suleiman and Roxelana to me. In fact, I sort of see Tigana as a hypothetical scenario in which the Ottoman Empire (as symbolized by Ygrath) manages to become a dominant power in the Italian peninsula. Not quite sure what this makes Alberico, admittedly. Maybe some amalgamation of French/Spanish/Norman influence? 

 

[SansaJonRule]

Quote

I really need to re-read his books, esp now that my knowledge of those periods of world history is better than it was when I first read them.

 

[SansaJonRule]

7 hours ago, Cithrin's Ale said:

I am very biased and forgive Kay for most of his faults, but I'll give my thoughts on this. Under Heaven feels like Kay is writing 'about' characters rather than from their perspective. It doesn't feel as 'personal' as Lions of Al-Rassan or Song for Arbonne. It's hard to describe, admittedly. I do love the work, however. I like the descriptions of the nature in the work and feel that Kay's commentary on historical forces works best in this work. 

River of Stars is interesting in that it explores the eventual consequences of the political conflict in Under Heaven. It makes the books feel like a duology of sorts. I also appreciate that it has a character who is thinking of his role in history. The book is very much focused on military events. In all honesty, it sort of feels like Kay tried to do his version of a Bernard Cornwell novel.

Thanks.  I do love to read about history, so maybe I would enjoy these two books. And they are a duology, according to Goodreads.

[williamjm]

21 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

OMG!!!!   That must have been some surprise! I didn't even look at the date this thread started. In fact, I didn't know this forum was that old.

This incarnation of the board began in 2005. It was a bit of a surprise that a thread has lasted this long, they usually get closed when they're either inactive for too long or pass 20 pages so this must have just had the right rate of posting to avoid those two.

What about the Under Heaven books?

I liked them both. Under Heaven started off strongly but I was starting to lose interest towards the end, while River of Stars started slowly and finished strongly. The "Chinese" setting does give them a different feel to Kay's other books.

[Werthead]

A Brightness Long Ago is a fine book. About halfway through now, and it's very strongly reminiscent of The Lions of Al-Rassan more than anything else. Probably his best book since at least Under Heaven.

[Wik]

Obviously this is subjective (I've only read Lions and Last Light) but can anything by GGK top these two?

I recall Lions being so highly recommended I never wavered and enjoyed it pretty much start to finish. Last Light took me a little to get into the at the start, but I actually felt the story was slightly better than Lions and I felt the ending was SO fantastic.  

I've been on a dry spell and a friend randomly bought Snakewood and said it was solid, so he is letting me borrow, but in light of lacking any GRRM or Bakker series at this point, there is plenty left for me to explore for GGK. 

[Astromech]

Not sure about topping those novels, but I've enjoyed all of the novels I have read: The Sarantine Mosaic, A Song for Arbonne, The Lions of Al Rassan, Children of Earth and Sky, and Tigana. His Sarantine Mosaic( consisting of Sailing to Sarantium and Lord of Emperors) is my favorite of those I've read. A Song for Arbonne contains my favorite scene so far. The Lions of Al Rassan has the best characters imo.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Kay, for me, is one of those strange authors whom you end up reading even though his work doesn't gel with your tastes. I have somehow managed to read The Fionavar Tapestry, The Last Light of the Sun, A Song for Arbonne, The Lions of Al Rassan, Tigana, Ysabel, and Sailing to Sarantium, without actually liking any of them - there are some nice bits to Fionavar and Tigana, but otherwise my response ranges from "average melodrama" to "I hate this" (A Song for Arbonne being my low point). Different tastes, I suppose - though Kay must be doing something right in that I continue to read him.  

[Wik]

On 4/26/2019 at 1:03 AM, The Marquis de Leech said:

Kay, for me, is one of those strange authors whom you end up reading even though his work doesn't gel with your tastes. I have somehow managed to read The Fionavar Tapestry, The Last Light of the Sun, A Song for Arbonne, The Lions of Al Rassan, Tigana, Ysabel, and Sailing to Sarantium, without actually liking any of them - there are some nice bits to Fionavar and Tigana, but otherwise my response ranges from "average melodrama" to "I hate this" (A Song for Arbonne being my low point). Different tastes, I suppose - though Kay must be doing something right in that I continue to read him.  

You must be a deviant who likes torture because I don't understand this mentality at all LOL

[Werthead]

On 4/24/2019 at 11:01 PM, Wik said:

Obviously this is subjective (I've only read Lions and Last Light) but can anything by GGK top these two?

I recall Lions being so highly recommended I never wavered and enjoyed it pretty much start to finish. Last Light took me a little to get into the at the start, but I actually felt the story was slightly better than Lions and I felt the ending was SO fantastic.  

I've been on a dry spell and a friend randomly bought Snakewood and said it was solid, so he is letting me borrow, but in light of lacking any GRRM or Bakker series at this point, there is plenty left for me to explore for GGK. 

Last Light of the Sun is generally regarded as GGK's weakest novel (certainly post the more divisive Fionavar Tapestry series), so if you liked that one you should be fine with the rest of his stuff.

Under Heaven, Tigana and A Brightness Long Ago are probably up there with Lions of Al-Rassan (or at least not far behind), and River of Stars, A Song for Arbonne, The Sarantine Mosaic duology and Children of Earth and Sky aren't far behind them. Kay is a pretty consistently solid author.

[Wik]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Last Light of the Sun is generally regarded as GGK's weakest novel (certainly post the more divisive Fionavar Tapestry series), so if you liked that one you should be fine with the rest of his stuff.

Under Heaven, Tigana and A Brightness Long Ago are probably up there with Lions of Al-Rassan (or at least not far behind), and River of Stars, A Song for Arbonne, The Sarantine Mosaic duology and Children of Earth and Sky aren't far behind them. Kay is a pretty consistently solid author.

Thanks, Wert! Very much appreciated. 

By chance, is there a post or anything that covers the general period/area that each book covers? 

I was a big fan of Last Light because I love most things Vikings and that period of English/Norse history is so fascinating to me. I thought he did a pretty good job with the Britons, Celts and Norse. I know some novels deal with an "Italy" theme and there are several others. 

Anyhow, thanks again!