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Exercise and Fitness II


lessthanluke

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Oh man, tell me about it. Yesterday was a real shit-show.

I really like my gym -- the equipment is well-maintained, the locker rooms aren't disgusting, it has all kinds of classes and extra studios (exercise room, yoga studio, pilates studio and bike room), and it's just generally a pleasant place to be. Even more awesome, the trainers and staff really encourage a female-friendly atmosphere in the weights area. (This is the very first gym I've been to that does this.) Much of this comes down to educating women on how to use the equipment, but it's totally reinforced by the attitudes of the trainers. They will not let guys act like shitheads in the weight area, and I've seen them give backup to women when guys get all proprietary about the freeweights. It's awesome.

Sounds like a great place. Why is the subway being all shitty? Is it high repair season or something?

I managed to have time to make a short trip to the gym after all. This thread is really helping my motivation. Anyway, I did 3 miles on the treadmill at 3% incline (5.5mph). Feeling pretty good, and planning on going again tomorrow to do some weights.

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Yes, and if you don't know how to use the equipment that your gym has, or use free weights safely, or have very, very different goals than the guys in thread, then all the advice from someone in this thread is going to amount to nothing but frustration and injury.

So why not let Chataya make her own decisions? Because, seriously, this kind of stuff is exactly the macho paternalism that keeps women out of the weight room to begin with, to their detriment.

Chats -- you want to get one of the guys here to make you up a routine, awesome. You've just saved some money, but make sure they give you better advice than some standard workout and the missive of "youtube it." You want to hear about my experience with a trainer? PM me.

(I don't mean to be all harpy about this, and I've certainly not drunk the trainer kool-aid, but in the 20-some years I've been going to gyms, I see the same thing happen over and over again. Women are not given any support in the weight room [see my above comment about gym meatheads], are given shitty advice by their male friends of "you don't need a trainer" and then these guys don't actually follow-up with in-person, face-to-face help [very, very important], and through neglect and macho posturing are basically driven from using weights altogether. And let's not even get into the free weights issue. In sum, you guys mean well, but you can be worse than useless in this situation.)

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I'm not gonna say "don't use a personal trainer" but I will advise to do a LOT of research before picking one. There is a huge amount of barely qualified or completely unqualified so-called "trainers" out there who are worse than useless. Check their credentials. Ask what qualifications they have and make sure you look-up those qualifications and what they entail. This is all pretty obvious stuff that I'm sure you've already thought of but it bears emphasising.

Probably one of the biggest problems with PTs is that they have exactly the kind of macho paternalisitc attitude that Xray was talking about above. "Oh no, you don't want to do heavy weights, you might get unsightly muscle (gasp, horror). Just do twenty minutes on the treadmill and then 1000 reps with these pleasantly-coloured stretchy bands." Avoid like the plague. If they're not showing you squats, deadlifts, bench press and other basic lifts then they're probabkly not worth using.

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If you do not have an extensive background in weight training, I suggest a beginner go to some sort of trainer. I have a lot of experience with weightlifting, but I still enjoy (and get a lot out of) spending time with a strength coach.

X-Ray is right in that injury is not only possible but probable if one tries to do many lifts incorrectly. Particularly the more important lifts like squats. Also, I have found that many women are terrified of putting any weight at all on the bar while men try to put way too much. They need an outside voice to say "Hey more/less weight, dummy!"

A lot of what a personal trainer can offer is motivation and a helping hand. These can be nice for some people, but most people do not wish to pay for them. But paying for the initial knowledge in how to actually work out safely? Worth just about any price.

I do want to echo Luke in saying Starting Strength is a great book to learn how to do the key lifts safely. And most info is available online if you look for it.

ETA: Or you can fly to Mass and work out with my wife and I. :D

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Probably one of the biggest problems with PTs is that they have exactly the kind of macho paternalisitc attitude that Xray was talking about above. "Oh no, you don't want to do heavy weights, you might get unsightly muscle (gasp, horror). Just do twenty minutes on the treadmill and then 1000 reps with these pleasantly-coloured stretchy bands." Avoid like the plague. If they're not showing you squats, deadlifts, bench press and other basic lifts then they're probabkly not worth using.

I will second the advice of "pick your trainer well." I've run into a few that were pretty sucktacular. The one I have now is pretty much the polar opposite of what you describe, though, Liffguard. I spent time quizzing him on muscle physiology and all kinds of random shit (he has a degree in nutrition from Rutgers, in addition to the hours of coursework he's done to be a personal trainer), and also on what the training regimen would be if I hired him (and why we would do things one way rather than another), with respect to my own goals, before I decided to opt for training, and training with him in particular. He actually pointed to most of the cardio machines (the ones that women seem to always be shunted to) and was all "you will never be using those, because they are mostly useless, especially for your goals. If you do cardio, you'll either be on the treadmill or, better yet, on the rowing machine, because your back muscles need serious help." He then called the recumbent bike "the barcalounger of the gym world" and told me to not even look it. :lol:

ETA: well put, Stego. Really, I think that both women and men need some help initially in the weight room. Getting form right, getting the right mind set, understanding the pros and cons of each machine and multiple ways of getting results (machine vs. free weights). If one works out with a friend who already knows this stuff -- awesome. But for many, a few sessions with a good trainer can build the foundation of knowledge and confidence that is so crucial to actually getting results. I have no idea how long I'll stick with my trainer. Probably at least 6 months, because I want results for my particular issues (which I'm already seeing -- hey! my posture is already better!). But after that? I might just opt for maintenance, at which time I won't necessarily need a trainer anymore.

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I will second the advice of "pick your trainer well." I've run into a few that were pretty sucktacular. The one I have now is pretty much the polar opposite of what you describe, though, Liffguard. I spent time quizzing him on muscle physiology and all kinds of random shit (he has a degree in nutrition from Rutgers), and also on what the training regimen would be if I hired him (and why we would do things one way rather than another), with respect to my own goals, before I decided to opt for training, and training with him in particular. He actually pointed to most of the cardio machines (the ones that women seem to always be shunted to) and was all "you will never be using those, because they are mostly useless, especially for your goals. If you do cardio, you'll either be on the treadmill or, better yet, on the rowing machine, because your back muscles need serious help." He then called the recumbent bike "the barcalounger of the gym world" and told me to not even look it. :lol:

People who actually do know what they're talking about can be tremendously useful. Sounds like you've got an excellent person there. Rowing machines are awesome. The little gym in my building doesn't have one, which is quite frustrating. But for now, the treadmill is plenty good for me.

UMD has a rather large kinesiology department, and I'm friends with a number of people who work on motor control (since they're part of the neuroscience community here on campus). One of them has just put me in touch with a grad student in exercise physiology, with whom I'm hopefully going to be able to map out my cardio zones in a systematic way. It's something that he needs subjects for for his thesis (as I understand it) and it's something that I've always wanted to have done in a rigorous way, since I know my aerobic threshold does not follow the simple 80% of max heart rate, where max heart rate is 220-age.

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Yes, and if you don't know how to use the equipment that your gym has, or use free weights safely, or have very, very different goals than the guys in thread, then all the advice from someone in this thread is going to amount to nothing but frustration and injury.

So why not let Chataya make her own decisions? Because, seriously, this kind of stuff is exactly the macho paternalism that keeps women out of the weight room to begin with, to their detriment.

Chats -- you want to get one of the guys here to make you up a routine, awesome. You've just saved some money, but make sure they give you better advice than some standard workout and the missive of "youtube it." You want to hear about my experience with a trainer? PM me.

(I don't mean to be all harpy about this, and I've certainly not drunk the trainer kool-aid, but in the 20-some years I've been going to gyms, I see the same thing happen over and over again. Women are not given any support in the weight room [see my above comment about gym meatheads], are given shitty advice by their male friends of "you don't need a trainer" and then these guys don't actually follow-up with in-person, face-to-face help [very, very important], and through neglect and macho posturing are basically driven from using weights altogether. And let's not even get into the free weights issue. In sum, you guys mean well, but you can be worse than useless in this situation.)

Lifting weights isn't rocket science. If you can't figure out what works what muscles then you are in the wrong game. Go play nintendo instead.

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Lifting weights isn't rocket science.

It's not rocket science but it's not simple either. Incorrect technique with fundamental lifts like squats and deadlifts can lead to serious injury. Even if lifting safely, there are hundreds of tiny factors that are the difference between negligible and massive gains. The squat can take a lifetime to master.

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Even though I've lifted on and off over the last six years or so, every time I restart a fitness regimen I get someone to help out in the first couple of weeks. A lot of muscle memory comes back but form tends to go, and you need someone to spot and make sure you are doing things correctly, as well as using a proper weight. I tend to pussy out some when it comes to upper body so having my trainer stand over me and say, "Put another five pounds on, that's too easy," is a great help. Meanwhile for lower body I want to lift as much as I can, so having the trainer there to nix that idea is also good. After you get "calibrated" to lifting, you can go off on your own.

VikingBeard, I agree that lifting weights is not rocket science, but if you're a beginner you need to be taught firstly how to use them properly, be introduced to safety standards, and be taught gym etiquette. Some people re-rack their weights but don't put them back in order. I consider that to be a cardinal rule, but some don't. Some people leave their barbells lying around because they'll "go back to it after this set" but that's a big no-no as well - someone can trip. Some of the machines look like medieval torture devices - think of the butt machine, that thing sometimes has a leather strap and a large semicircle with a leg bar attached. A good trainer is never a bad idea, even just once.

When you get a trainer, I think these are the most important things he/she can offer you:

1. Form

2. Proper weights

3. Safety

4. Schedule (like how many days a week to lift, what muscle groups to work, alternate muscle group days if you plateau or get bored)

5. Diet

VikingBeard, how many of those points do you think a beginner is going to know off the bat?

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I'd love to have a trainer if I could afford one. I"m finding weight training to be one of those things where the more I learn, the more it seems I don't know. The one session I spent with Brandon (powerlifter guy) was transformative, and if I could afford him, I'd carve out the time to make it a consistent thing. (as it is, I'd feel like a douche imposing on an internet friendship in order to get for free what he charges everyone else for.) At the very least I'd love to have a spotter. I'm making it a point to be more outgoing in the weight room now, and so have a short list of guys I feel alright asking for a spot when they're around.

and now some questions for the panel:

-- doing deadlifts, is it cheating to put the bar all the way on the ground in between reps, or in your opinion should I keep constant tension on it? I was thinking it's like locking your elbows out while doing bench, not preferable, but people do it all the time.

hmmm, I had some others, but I guess I forgot.

ETA, I'm adding a stopwatch to my world today so that I can judge progress vs. goal for my jogging loop, and other time-sensitives like rest between sets in the weight room.

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ran my 4.2 miles in 36:19, or an improvement of about 4 mins over last time. whoa. :)

and I sweated my ever loving ass off in the 95 degree heat, no shade. I didn't pack any water because I thought, sheeyit, I've done 10 miles before with no water, surely I can handle this.

by the time I got to mile three, I was dying. As I climbed the stairs to my apartment afterwards, I experienced the telltale spots in my vision that signal dehydration. I pack icey water from now on.

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ran my 4.2 miles in 36:19, or an improvement of about 4 mins over last time. whoa. :)

and I sweated my ever loving ass off in the 95 degree heat, no shade. I didn't pack any water because I thought, sheeyit, I've done 10 miles before with no water, surely I can handle this.

by the time I got to mile three, I was dying. As I climbed the stairs to my apartment afterwards, I experienced the telltale spots in my vision that signal dehydration. I pack icey water from now on.

Wow, nice job! That's a huge drop in time between runs.

Couldn't go on a long hike this weekend, so I tried jogging a trail in a local canyon. The very hilly loop was about 9 miles long with about 1200 feet worth of elevation gain. Had to walk up (and down sometimes) some of the steeper hills. Didn't keep track of time precisely because I was familiarizing myself with the route, but I think it took about 2 hours. Also stopped several times to observe the wildlife. Almost stepped on two snakes, including one rattlesnake!

The hills really kicked my butt, but I think I'm going to try doing this run every week or two, at least until I can run up all the hills. Current goal for this run is to do it in under 90 minutes.

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I'd love to have a trainer if I could afford one. I"m finding weight training to be one of those things where the more I learn, the more it seems I don't know. The one session I spent with Brandon (powerlifter guy) was transformative, and if I could afford him, I'd carve out the time to make it a consistent thing. (as it is, I'd feel like a douche imposing on an internet friendship in order to get for free what he charges everyone else for.) At the very least I'd love to have a spotter. I'm making it a point to be more outgoing in the weight room now, and so have a short list of guys I feel alright asking for a spot when they're around.

and now some questions for the panel:

-- doing deadlifts, is it cheating to put the bar all the way on the ground in between reps, or in your opinion should I keep constant tension on it? I was thinking it's like locking your elbows out while doing bench, not preferable, but people do it all the time.

hmmm, I had some others, but I guess I forgot.

ETA, I'm adding a stopwatch to my world today so that I can judge progress vs. goal for my jogging loop, and other time-sensitives like rest between sets in the weight room.

Um there's a reason they are called dead lifts. Its DEAD weight your lifting. Rest the bar on the floor between every rep.

ETA: if your not locking out your reps bench pressing your doing it wrong.

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I think today was my 10th day in a row working out in some way, so I do appreciate this thread for being motivational and positive (for the most part). Thank you especially Xray for your rant. (Although I do like ellipticals, uselessness be damned. When I come off 40 minutes on one at full attack, I'm high on endorphins, and I'm beginning to think I'm getting addicted to this feeling.)

Yesterday I hiked about ~11 miles from near Muir Woods to Stinson Beach and back on a trail with around 1500 feet of elevation gain and loss. My feet hated me at the end for forgetting my hiking poles and making them carry me all alone on the downhill parts, but they're feeling ok today. Saw a number of runners on parts of the trail, which is badass, but there's no way I'd ever subject myself to that. Why do trail runners always seem to be into running in and out of deep ravines on slippery trails with long sets of stairs? I would run off a cliff by accident, no joke.

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