Robin Hobb

[Shryke]

Well, it's certainly a failure in the sense that the book sucks, but Hobb for sure knows whether the Fool is:

a) a women

b) a man

c) something different altogether

d) she didn't give a shit and never bothered to figure it out because it wasn't important

[Liadin]

I just finished the Farseer trilogy, and was relieved to see a lot of what I thought reflected in this thread... I loved the first two books but the last one, and especially the ending, was simply awful. With the Soldier Son trilogy I loved the first book, slogged through the last two. Similarly terrible wrap-up. Are the Liveship books any better? Sounds like I should just stop reading Hobb...

[Werthead]

I just finished the Farseer trilogy, and was relieved to see a lot of what I thought reflected in this thread... I loved the first two books but the last one, and especially the ending, was simply awful. With the Soldier Son trilogy I loved the first book, slogged through the last two. Similarly terrible wrap-up. Are the Liveship books any better? Sounds like I should just stop reading Hobb...

This is how Hobb rolls. Great concept, great characters, solid writing. But somewhere, either in Book 2 or 3 of each trilogy, the fire goes out and it's a long, miserable and hard slog to get to the final ending. Liveship is better in that it's not until a third of the way into Book 3 that the author stops giving a toss, so intertia should get you through to the end, but the same problem is still there.

Hobb would be one of the best writers in the genre if she could either just write duologies at best or make each book in her trilogies about half the size (note that the very decent Assassin's Apprentice is half the length of the other two in the trilogy) so she didn't have to resort to her tedious filler trick.

[Wastrel]

Whereas I read Hobb for the filler. Without the filler, it's all a fairly conventional heroic fantasy; it's the filler that fills out the characters. My favourite book of hers is Golden Fool, which I could probably read endlessly - despite the fact that it's almost entirely 'filler'. Hobb doesn't rush you through to the appointed ending, she lets you actually ENJOY the characters on the way. [Which obviously means that if you don't like the characters, you'll hate the journey]. This does admittedly, however, leave her some trouble with the endings sometimes. Farseer had a brilliant ending... but unfortunately she clearly ran out of room for it, kept the final page of it, and then stuck in five pages of bullet points to reach that final page. In Tawny Man, the content actually overruns the plot, leading to half a gigantic book of, essentially, epilogue.

[Liadin]

Whereas I read Hobb for the filler. Without the filler, it's all a fairly conventional heroic fantasy; it's the filler that fills out the characters.

Heck, I'm not objecting to the slow pacing. There are people out there who will accuse Assassin's Apprentice, Royal Assassin and especially Shaman's Crossing of being nothing but filler. I loved those books. What I saw in the later books in both trilogies, though, was what Wert described--it's like Hobb just stopped caring, and from there on out it was a painful slog to the end.

My theories on that:

1) In both trilogies, it seemed to me that the books went downhill when the narrator left his "home base" and started hiking. Hobb writes well when a bunch of major characters are all in one place, living their day-to-day lives while dealing with whatever antagonists come up. Once they go on a journey though... it's boring as hell, and it doesn't help that they tend to leave everyone behind and spend chapters either alone or with random throwaway characters.

2) Is it just me, or does Hobb have an awfully hard time writing about good stuff happening? Assassin's Quest was a 760 page book. Over 600 pages was hiking, and like 10 pages covered the defeat of all the antagonists that had been around for the whole trilogy. She could have used those 760 pages to write, oh, 50 pages of Fitz coming back to himself from being a wolf, 200 pages of Fitz challenging and eventually defeating Regal and his coterie, 100 pages of waking dragons, 100 pages of Fitz's relationships with the other characters, and 300 pages of battling and finally defeating the Red Ships. Would've made for a much more interesting and rewarding book, and still a pretty leisurely pace. But Hobb seems to like having only bad things happen to the characters ever. Thus, 700 pages of needless beat-down, then the ending is rushed and condensed into a bit of narrative summary. Ugh.

[Shryke]

I think it's even more obvious in the Fool Trilogy. The first book feels purposeful but the next 2 meander about and accomplish nothing while simultaneously dropping major plot points from earlier.

[AverageGuy]

I think it's even more obvious in the Fool Trilogy. The first book feels purposeful but the next 2 meander about and accomplish nothing while simultaneously dropping major plot points from earlier.

I noticed it most in Liveships. People are going around doing things, then they all get stuck in a cabin on a ship or stuck playing Huck and Jim where they are completely inactive until

the dragon comes and saves everyone. Which I guess also kind of happened in the Farseer and Fool trilogies... Does that make draco ex machina a theme?

Anyway, that is my one issue with Hobb. Other than that, though, I enjoy the hell out of her work.

[Calibandar]

I didn't have that experience with Hobb at all, so I don't think she should start writing shorter books, or do more duologies. The stories didn't fizzle out towards the end. Fool's Fate was the best book in the Tawny Man trilogy IMO. Assasin's Quest was reasonably on par with the first two books, with plenty of events going on.

Liveship I simply never cared for and didn't make it past book 1.

[Migey]

Robin Hobb is a very good author imo. Her world is not as good as GRRMs is. but well, whos is?

i have to say though, Assassins apprentice and Royal Assassin are simply awful. If id read them first, id have given it up. Fortunatly, i read the liveship traders first, and they are amazing. Her entire liveship traders trilogy is really good, right up to the ending. (although damn shame about kennit and we never find out exactly how wintrow fares afterwards). The first two of books of her assassin series are bad, but the third one was good enough to make up for it. Finally, something actually HAPPENED. The Tawny Man series (Fools Errand, Golden Fool, Fools Fate) were really good, and while i enjoyed fools fate the most, i did feel as if the plot lacked something. The main basis of the plot (pale woman) didnt really appear until the book was halfway through. Nontheless, very good. Im also a bit dissapointed that we never found out exactly WHAT the black man was doing for half the book...

Soldiers son series is very bad imo.

I know i make robin hobb sound terrible, but i still like her. Try the liveship traders trilogy first. Those 3 books + tawny man series + assassins quest makes 7 really good books as opposed to 2 really bad ones. Soldiers son doesnt count because thats set in an entirely different world.

Try robin hobb. In the liveship traders at least, i promise, you wont be dissapointed.

[Rakka]

She could have used those 760 pages to write, oh, 50 pages of Fitz coming back to himself from being a wolf, 200 pages of Fitz challenging and eventually defeating Regal and his coterie, 100 pages of waking dragons, 100 pages of Fitz's relationships with the other characters, and 300 pages of battling and finally defeating the Red Ships. Would've made for a much more interesting and rewarding book, and still a pretty leisurely pace.

I disagree. The whole point of Farseer books for me is that Fitz isn't the character who strides out and has a 500-page run of epic battles and rising to power. He sets events in motion but doesn't lead them. Farseer was an excellent book from the POV of a side character, and it made perfect sense to me that the last book was basically a spear thrower's spurt. I didn't need to read about the flight of the spear, it was enough to know that it hit the mark. He wakes the stone dragons, the epic battles are their problem now. And I liked the ending. It was refreshing to see a fantasy epic that doesn't end in saccharine sweetness and light and all the romantic (but none of the political) subplots wrapped up in a neat little gooey package, see Tawny Man.

I thought the Fool was a woman, too. Didn't have much of an opinion in Farseer, apart from "probably neither", but she talks to Althea about how to crossdress and hide her menses on shipboard. The "neither/both" option was opened again in Tawny Man, which would be prefectly fine if there wasn't the bit about using dark socks for pads in Liveship... ah well.

[Liadin]

Eh, Fitz doesn't have to be the hero saving the day to do interesting things, or at least witness them--otherwise why bother writing about him, right? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there; I found all the hiking terribly dull even after finding the first two books fascinating. And there was the same too-hasty off-screen resolution in Renegade's Magic.... argh.

I really do think I'll stay away from Hobb after this. Just not my cup of tea. More power to the rest of you though.

[Shryke]

I disagree. The whole point of Farseer books for me is that Fitz isn't the character who strides out and has a 500-page run of epic battles and rising to power. He sets events in motion but doesn't lead them. Farseer was an excellent book from the POV of a side character, and it made perfect sense to me that the last book was basically a spear thrower's spurt. I didn't need to read about the flight of the spear, it was enough to know that it hit the mark. He wakes the stone dragons, the epic battles are their problem now. And I liked the ending. It was refreshing to see a fantasy epic that doesn't end in saccharine sweetness and light and all the romantic (but none of the political) subplots wrapped up in a neat little gooey package, see Tawny Man.

Aye. Tawny Man sucks because it was the fan fiction ending she wrote for herself.

[WhiteHaven]

Aye. Tawny Man sucks because it was the fan fiction ending she wrote for herself.

Yeah,the fight with the Dragon (nevermind, old, blind Burrich who came out of nowhere) was the highlight of the book. After that it was 200 pages of...well simply boredom.

Hobb died for me, with that book.

[The Evil Hat]

I'm two hundred pages into Ship of Magic and I'm loving it so far. Althea's feelings of betrayal were incredibly hard hitting. If it keeps up like this, it'll blow Farseer out of the water (and I liked Farseer quite a bit).

[Migey]

Trust me The Evil Hat, it will only get better. Ship of Magic was good, but The Mad Ship and Ship of Destiny are better.

SPOILER INCOMING

I do feel that Robin Hobb does tend to repeat herself a little bit though. The end of all three of her series HEAVILY features dragons.

Although i think she did it MUCH better in the Liveship Traders then she did with any of Fitzs books.

In my opnion, Reyn, Malta, Wintrow, Kennit, Brashen, Althea, Ronica, and even Serilla and Tintaglia are all characters of great complex and depth. I find thier personalities alot better constructed then those in Fitz's stories. Kennit and Wintrow in particular are really good. Im greatly looking foward to more stories set in Bingtown and Rain Wilds. I havnt yet red Dragon Keeper but its on my list, as soon as ive finished a wheel of time (just started it to see what all the fuss is about, and enjoying it greatly)

The liveship traders is the best of Robin Hobbs works to me, and always will be. I also find the plot much better constructed then it was with Fitzs PoVs

In my eyes, this only supports my belief that the best stories are ALL with multiple PoVs. A book with multiple PoVs is just so much better. I find it gives the characters alot more depth, since you can see many of them from several different PoVs. Take cersei for example. A bitch from most peoples point of view, but she sort of makes some sense, and you can see her in a slightly different light when you have her PoV.

I find that in books with a single narrator, the plot will often feel a bit too contrived, too many coincidences, too many WTF and 'where did that come from?' moments.

Take Fools Fate for example.

How much better a story could we have had if we had had Burrich and the Fools narrative. Mabye the pale woman a few times towards the end, and possibly Swift. Mabye even Nettle. In the earlier books we could have had nighteyes, dutiful, chade, mabye even kettricken. That would have made a MUCH better book with alot better plot, and more complexity.

The best example i have ever seen of multiple PoVs providing a good story, is Darren Shans Demonata. 10 books of about 275-400 pages each. Pretty short in total, yet very, very good. He doesnt have multiple PoVs per book, instead 6 of the books are from the PoV of the main narratore, and the 2 secondary protagonists have 2 books each. He managed to construct an AMAZING plot and alot of action into very few words.

Even Brandon Sanderson, and author of whom im very fond of, for his imagination and plots, but is very weak in characterization and his writing/dialogue, managed to make his main series, Mistborn, very good through multiple PoVs. By using them he managed to make the stroy bareable for many. I think alot of people would find the book alot more contrived if we didnt have the occasional Breeze or Marsh, or TenSoon PoV. Imagine if we had to go without Sazed or Spook? I liked Vin and Elend, but even i have to admit that thier personalities are awful. Imagine if we had only Vin and Elend for the whole story?!. Just would not work. There are a FEW cases i think of in which Single PoVs work, but multiple PoVs is much better.

Sorry. im ranting here :D

Sorry for ranting here :P

[Jaerv]

I read three of her trilogies (Farseer, Liveships, Tawny Man). I loved her characterization and some parts of her worldbuilding (the liveships, for example, are a fascinating and very original concept, they same is true for the live cycle of the dragons).

I had problems with the unconvincing twists of the plots and the anticlimactic endings.

I hated that she explained important aspects of Fizz’s and Kennit’s characters by magical interventions. Somehow, this ruined both characters for me.

And, finally, I disliked how she let some of her political attitudes negatively affect her books. She consistently avoids battle scenes for example, probably because of some strange pacifist “describing too much violence is bad”-attitude. The matriarchal Viking-society in Tawny Man is not convincingly described. And why is it necessary to tell us on many many many pages that slavery is bad? Does she think this is news?

[Ser Silly Cat]

I've read the Farseer, Tawney Man, and Soldier Son trilogies and really enjoyed all of them. Really the only beef I have with them is the fact that the first book nothing happens because it's all exposition, in the second one too much stuff is happening at once, and the third book is mostly if not close to all winding it down..

All in all I love the books though. I think her writing is really engaging and so are her characters (even if yes they tend to be a little bit emo)

[Eyelesbarrow]

Okay, I read the Assassin and Tawny Man series. I have yet to start on the Liveship novels, yet. I have to agree that Ms. Hobb can be boring in her plots, but she writes so well. I like her best when she writes about the political and daily life in Buckkeep and other parts. Love her characterizations too. Sure, we hate and love some of the characters in her books, but for me, that's a good thing, that she can hook the characters resonate with the readers. Sometimes, though I feel like some magic parts (exempted are the Nighteyes scene) are a bit forced. That trip to the magic land of the dragons in the Apprentice trilogy was meh. The magic parts, like Fitz's last travel via the skill posts in Fool's Fate, was a letdown. Somebody mentioned to me once that Hobb was ill when she was writing this part of the novel, which could explain a lot.

As to the Fool's gender, well, I subscribe to the Judith Butler's idea that gender is fluid. ;)

[Werthead]

A very nice map of the Six Duchies, Rain Wilds and Cursed Shores.

Another nice one of Gernia.

Ah crap, forgot you had to be a forum member to see them.

Right, the Six Duchies one is here. And the Gernia/Soldier Son one is here.

[automne]

I read the Farseer and Tawny man trilogies and enjoyed both even though I felt Hobb didn't know how to end her own stories.

Then I made the mistake of reading first a book she published under her real name and which was one of the crappiest book I ever read and secondly Shaman's crossing which was uninteresting.

From now on I'll stay away from anything Hobb/Lindholm writes.