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Angalin

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* considers having to update various posts *

* decides to leave it until we have more data *

Wait, did he confirm then that:

SPOILER: ADWD
Melisandre is a POV and there is yet another mystery POV beyond her? Or that Melisandre is merely in the book as a character, and later on said there is still an unconfirmed POV?

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SPOILER: ADWD

No he confirmed Mel as a POV and another POV he wouldn't name.

And I went back and checked. He said that the Sansa chapter was done but moved to Winds, most likely. Thats when he emphasized that this was all subject to editorial change.

I'll go back and correct.

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SPOILER: ADWD
I imagine most of these questions will be answered with the postings of the other summaries.

What about the chapter led the title to be named the Merchant's Man? I know Quentyn is the Merchant's Man since he is the POV, but how exactly? Is this part of his disguise? I believe in AFFC it was mentioned by Arianne that Q was posing as a merchant in Planky Town.

Was there any mention made of the Golden Company?

Was Quentyn looking to hire the sellswords, or join the sellsword company?

Were there any descriptions about Volantis itself?

Any other insights into Q's character? Is he more like his dad or the Red Viper? What about the company he keeps? According to AFFC, Q is travelling with Cletus Yronwood (has a lazy eye and is randy), Maester Kedry (master of tongues and who is now dead), and three Yronwood knights.

Thanks ahead of time. Sorry for the onslaught of questions, but I'm a spoiler nut.

I've been speculating on the new mystery POV. Since the POV doesn't show up until later in the book, it could possibly be a character seen in AFFC... what are some other candidates? Either north, south, or overseas? I know Loras Tyrell and the Hound were ruled out earlier on, but they could have been ruled in by now.

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Guest Ro_

Post party, the informatin is fresh, but the subject is intoxicated.

SPOILER: AGoT
Ned dies!

Q is not dour, but he is very SOLmmme (gd, i am drunk, will fix this when i get hme, sber (and my key is fucked, beer i suspect)) Q is 18, but is nt prne t laughter or jests. He is dedicated t following his duty.

The title cmes frm their ruse - they are pretending t be wine merchants - they all take a turn being the master, and others the servants.

The glden cmpany was mentined as being knwn far and wide to have broken their contract. Other than that, nothing else.

Q was walking by the companies, not intent on joining or recruiting - they were trying to recruit him and his mates.

I am so bad with names - no idea who died and lived - I just am not familiar enough with them to remember their names. I am so sorry. There should be better recaps coming later tomorrow. The net connection here is horrid and I am the only one with a comp - they were all posting from net phones, bless them.

Q is honorable as hell, and a more solmn man than should be expected from a youth his age. He sounds very driven and determined and like he is forty.

One tidbet that floats to the top of my boooze addled brain - George was talking about casting and was commenting on how hard it was to determine who would be special or needed to advance the movie plotline, esp in the first season and esp since the series isn't done yet. He said that Q could or could not be important to the story and since he(George) was a gardener more than an achrictect* it was hard for him to state the importance of a char to the movie line. He also said that if one would try to ajust AFFC and ADWD, the way he wrote the books would negate some combinations - for example Arianne's chaps and Q's - the surprise would be lost if one would read Q's chaps before A's.

***At the time, I took that to mean George has not set Q's role in concrete as of yet. I mean, totally see my sig - if Dany has 3 dragons (or two if the green? is going rogue) she can have husbands/consorts as she wishes. Refesh me - if R+L=J is true, would J be Dany's uncle? cousin? Half sibling?

*George said that some authors are architects, and plan everything in advance before writing, and some are gardeners, who plant a seed, water it with their blood and nuture and shape the blossam that comes out. He says mose authors are half and half, but he is 90% gardener, which is why this book and AFFC is going so hard for him. He writes, shapes, rewrites, has to check what the other chars say, then rewrite again. OFC I think his way is quite the way to go since he has done so well so far.

Yeah, and he compared this to LOTR, which I never thought of in this aspect, but it totally makes sense - at the beginning of both series the peeps were in one place (winterfell or the shire) then they went from a hand to fingers, branching out as each char did what it needed, and the really fucking hard part is getting them to branch back together - thats where the hard plotting lies and thats why Tolkien went from one book to three - moving chars back takes TIME.

George also said that AFFC and ADWD are happening consecutively, but ADWD keeps going past the end of AFFC. No, he wouldn't say where the divergence happened.

Ran, I asked your question about our beloved horselord and George said no comment as of yet. He did give me a WTF look, then I was like...but its a Ran question!! I admire your sources. :D

Oh god, i will clean this up, but George also mentioned how he knew he was totally not going to be able to do the story in 3 books because time wouldn't flow from chap to chap. For example, he spoke of poor ded ned - he killed the traitor, then in the next chap Cat comes to him in the godwood and its been like five minutes since Ned is still cleaning his sword. He said thats where the five year gap really started to fall apart. He couldn't move things along timewise without fucking up the plot. And he spoke of the impossibility of the fabled five year gap, but if you don't know about that yet, you shouldn't be reading this.

Oh, we also had a really fun spirited discussion about the I won't read your fucking manuscript article. George had the wise and reasoned opinion that its not a good idea to discuss your stuff too in depth on the nets with your fans.

OMG, did we have fun. This was far and away a great con. Thanks everyonE!!

**Please correct and add vowels as needed, if needed before I become less booze addled :P. I am off to die of alcholololol poisoning now. :lol:

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Thanks for the report, Ro. Just to update on the Jason Momoa thing, HBO has now officially confirmed it to Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune, so you can let George know he can relax about it. ;)

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It is 5a.m. and I think I was hit by a truck when I wasn't looking...*grins*

WOW! What an experience. This is my first con, and it is hard not to feel like I've been spoiled for all other cons! My favorite author my first time out of the gate...dinner, great panels, hosted a BwB party room, and so much time with GRRM. I am completely amazed at how generous GRRM is with his time. Having Jim Ludwig from Dark Sword Miniatures in attendance was a nice bonus as well.

Thank you so very much to all the great BwB members on hand. The room support (donations, ice, beer, cleaning, conversation, strong-arming) and general encouragement were very appreciated by this first-timer. Special thanks to Michael and Raven for helping decorate, Ro for all the great advice, Chataya for kickass hostessing skills.

Now to focus on getting knighted in Chicago...

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I finally have an internet connection outside of my phone (which was unable to highlight the spoiler text so it was a little hard to jump in not knowing what anyone else had contributed).

SPOILER: A few observations

To be clear about Melisandre, I believe George said there was one chapter with her, so she isn't a major POV like we used to get.

Also, Davos has, I believe he said, 3 chapters.

Quentyn seems like kind of a dreamy, awkward guy. Whenever he thinks of Dany, in his mind she is always "the most beautiful woman in the world". And he even thinks at one point how she will need him because she needs Dorne, but she will not love him, and he seems distraught by this. He is not a man who has had much of any success with the ladies aside from a kiss from one of a landed knight's twin daughters.

A few things about Volantis. The harbor is huge and is said to be able to swallow all the islands of Braavos within it, and Quentyn doesn't doubt that after seeing it (although he has never seen Braavos). Secondly, a common mode of transportation in the city is small carts (with a specific name I don't recall) that were pulled by miniature elephants.

As mentioned, the Maester (Kedry), and two of the guards that were sent with Quentyn were killed when the ship they were being transported on was beset by pirates. Quentyn reflects that not only was this a great tragedy for them, but that the loss of Kedry was most acute because he had spent half his life studying the languages and cultures of the free cities and the slave cities. So the difficulty of their task, which was already high, was just made more so.

I think everyone else has covered about what I can remember. It was difficult for me because it's been a while since my last reread, so in the reading something would jog my memory and I'd start thinking about it and lose focus on the actual reading for a few moments.

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SPOILER: ADWD
Did Martin actually say that Dance is getting "alarmingly long"? Earlier this month, he'd apparently just passed the 1,100 MS pages mark, which means he's still got no fewer than 400 MS pages left before he reaches Storm size. On that occasion, Martin also mentioned that he hoped to bring the book in a shorter length than Storm, but at the time I interpreted that statement as theoretical, not a firm goal that must be reached at all costs. Why is he so worried?

Granted, he's still got the Meereenese knot to deal with and perhaps a number of other chapters that still need to be written/completed, but I'd hate to think that he has to deal with some arbitrary limit (imposed either by himself or his publishers) that will keep the book from being Storm-size or nearly so. After waiting so long, I for one want a Storm-sized book, if this gives some publishers headaches, too bad. The hardcover edition of Storm is proof that it can be done. I'd hate to think we could be deprived of new material just because Dance is not allowed to go beyond, say, a 1,200, or 1,300 MS pages mark. To say nothing of the problems it could cause for the last two books if they are also afflicted with some arbitrary limit.

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Good morning.

The party last night was a blast. Kasteen pulled off an awesome party. Hats off!

Many BWB traditions were upheld. Our party was one of the busiest parties of the con. We had a good mix of fans and novices. And the party room was better when we left it than when we got it.

There were more costumes here at a convention of 800 people than at all of the Denver Worldcon. It was a lot of fun seeing so many people getting into the spirit of things.

At midnight last night they had a "Wonder Twins" contest. Yes, that kind of contest. A cleavage contest. Geeks are obsessed with boobs. There was a $2 admission and the money raised went to breast awareness. I mean breast cancer awareness. The BwB's very own Chataya took second place. I am sure the catsuit she was wearing helped. The fact that GRRM took one for the team and judged the contest probably didn't hurt either. It was no surprise that the BwB suite emptied out when the contest was about to start.

Once I find my notes, I will add some more details to the reading report. First I need to find my clothes.

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All in a good cause, I suppose. Well done, Chataya!

Tsavong,

SPOILER: ADwD
Just the one Melisandre chapter? Very interesting indeed. That has to be a pretty momentous chapter, it seems to me.

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Holy shit Chataya! Congratulations! Once more you did us proud.

And Tsavong Lah, thanks for the details about Hunter's Run. Could you elaborate a little more on what GRRM said about it? I loved that book but have never really thought to ask questions about it.

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SPOILER: ADwD

Well, well, we'll see if Mel's chapter is called 'The Red Fraud' or something like that; or, even more revealing just 'Epilogue' ;-).

If there is anyone out there who made more detailed notes during the reading, then we should open a Quentyn I thread in the ADwD forum.

Oh, and my thoughts on the chapter (I've not been there, I' just speculating):

As Volantis is supposed to be the Free City that holds yet almost completely to valyrian custom (meaning that they most likely still stick very much to slavery; Pentos only abandoned it 'officially' because the Braavosi forced them to), it's understandable that they don't like Dany's anti-slavery politics.
The whole mercenary recruiting could be either done for the Golden Company (who might try to get rid of Daenerys and take the dragons to finally establish what they deem the true dynasty to the Iron Throne - all under the assumption that there is still a pretender within their ranks who has a sufficient claim to Iron Throne; or they might hire sellswords to join their forces with Daenerys, seeing her as an opportunity to get 'home').

On the other hand, the Volantenes themselves might recruit troops to free Meereen from Dany's rule to reestablish the business connections there. And there is the matter of Aegon refusing the offer of the Volantenes to rebuild Valyria's glory with his three dragons. Volantis (or, rather, the families in power there) might not have forgotten that slight. And with a Targaryen having dragons again, there might have come the time to settle things once and for all with House Targaryen.

The chapter seems to be set during late ASoS or early AFfC, as Quentyn still is unaware of the fact that Lord Tywin is dead. That means that Quentyn's mission started rather early (in AFfC it was never made clear - or I do not remember - when Quentyn was seen leaving Dorne), maybe even before Oberyn left for KL.
And as Quentyn is that early already in Volantis, he, most likely, will reach Daenerys in ADwD. Tyrion, maybe, too. But I don't see Marwyn, Victarion (and Euron?) getting to Slaver's Bay in the part in ADwD that is set after AFfC (especially if there are two Cersei chapters set in that part).
Do we know since when Quentyn know about this new role in his father's plans? And does he remember the old plans about Arianne marrying Viserys, and him become the Ruling Prince of Dorne (and if he does, did he prefer that, or is eager to become Westeros' first Prince Consort; oh, and if thinks about that, is the Dance of Dragons and Rhaenyra mentioned?)?

Does Quentyn think about his father and/or Lord Yronwood in the chapter? Arianne thinks he resembles Doran physically and mentally. Is it explained (or indicated) where he got his sense of duty and honor? And is there any indication that Lord Yronwood has still ill feelings against the Martells (because of Oberyn's actions), or thinks he about the Yronwoods fighting in three Blackfyre rebellions (might be possible with the news about the Golden Company coming to Volantis)?

Oh, and on Cersei's chapters:

Are they subject to the editorial decision as well, or does that apply only/more to the Sansa chapter, that has already been moved to TWoW?

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SPOILER: ADWD
Did Martin actually say that Dance is getting "alarmingly long"? Earlier this month, he'd apparently just passed the 1,100 MS pages mark, which means he's still got no fewer than 400 MS pages left before he reaches Storm size. On that occasion, Martin also mentioned that he hoped to bring the book in a shorter length than Storm, but at the time I interpreted that statement as theoretical, not a firm goal that must be reached at all costs. Why is he so worried?

Granted, he's still got the Meereenese knot to deal with and perhaps a number of other chapters that still need to be written/completed, but I'd hate to think that he has to deal with some arbitrary limit (imposed either by himself or his publishers) that will keep the book from being Storm-size or nearly so. After waiting so long, I for one want a Storm-sized book, if this gives some publishers headaches, too bad. The hardcover edition of Storm is proof that it can be done. I'd hate to think we could be deprived of new material just because Dance is not allowed to go beyond, say, a 1,200, or 1,300 MS pages mark. To say nothing of the problems it could cause for the last two books if they are also afflicted with some arbitrary limit.

That doesn't make sense. I don't want a Storm-sized book for the sake of having a Storm-sized book, only if the story demands it. I don't want Dance to be an Erikson book where you have to wade through 700 pages of purple filler to get to the 300 pages where important things actually happen.

And, as has been said many times, the reality is that publishing in 2010 is a different business to what it was in 2000. Just because Bantam and Voyager could publish a 1,000-page hardcover in 2000 doesn't mean they can, or will, in 2010. GRRM is a big enough seller that Bantam will almost certainly be able to do it, but the increasingly split-happy Voyager maybe wouldn't, and if the book comes in at the same size as ASoS, then at the very least we'd be looking at a split in mmpb, if not in hardcover as well.

The point that other publishers can churn out bigger books (Erikson again, from Tor and Bantam UK, or Hamilton, from Del Rey and Pan Macmillan) is well-made, but irrelevant to how the specific publishers we are dealing with their work. Voyager has, in fact, split books that could have easily been one book going right back to when they were founded in the mid-1990s. The original Legends was also split by them for absolutely no discernable reason whatsoever, since the two pb volumes of that anthology came in at less than 350 pages each (and Legends II was published in one volume).

Something that is concerning:

SPOILER: ADWD
Only three chapters for Davos? So the one where he gets shipwrecked on the Sisters, another where he arrives in White Harbour and then a third where...erm, his story in the book finishes. Worrying for his future survival prospects.

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This comment from Ro_'s post is interesting:

SPOILER: ADWD Spoilers
Q is very concerned that Tywin's assassins will find Dany before he can get to her and protect her.

This is troubling. Tywin Lannister is a problem solver... he does not mess around. I always assumed everyone was ignoring Varys' curious reports ;) If Dany made it on Tywiin's radar... she's in big trouble. And it's also impressive that Doran/Q are that well informed on Tywin's plans.

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Something that is concerning:

SPOILER: ADWD
Only three chapters for Davos? So the one where he gets shipwrecked on the Sisters, another where he arrives in White Harbour and then a third where...erm, his story in the book finishes. Worrying for his future survival prospects.

Honestly, when I typed that I had to stop and think if he actually said 3 or if he said 5. I think he said 3, but 5 also sounds familiar. Maybe someone else can back me up on this. Also, I'm not entirely sure when it was I heard this (things kind of ran together). Part of me thinks someone at the party might have asked him and I just happened to overhear the answer. Likewise there are a few things that I seem to remember about the description of Volantis that I haven't shared because I'm not entirely sure what I'm remembering wasn't him, at another point, talking about a different series of books that he has read.

I'm home now, so I'm going to try to sit and recollect all I can and then I'll be back.

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Guest Ro_

It was asked at the party, I think and no, I don't remember either. It was too much info too fast to remember when drunk. :/

I forgot to mention the hugest con surprise - Tsavong Lah is not a short Asian kid. :rofl:

E - sorry about the snoring. Steve actually RECORDED it. I think I will stop bitching about my neighbor's snoring. :lol:

Really, I think this was the most fun I have ever had at a con. Everyone was so fun and we got along so well. Thanks everyone. :)

P.S. Have confirmed that today I am much like a hallicinagetic toad. The kitten licked me then fell over in a sodden drunken heap.

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It was asked at the party, I think and no, I don't remember either. It was too much info too fast to remember when drunk. :/

I forgot to mention the hugest con surprise - Tsavong Lah is not a short Asian kid. :rofl:

E - sorry about the snoring. Steve actually RECORDED it. I think I will stop bitching about my neighbor's snoring. :lol:

Really, I think this was the most fun I have ever had at a con. Everyone was so fun and we got along so well. Thanks everyone. :)

P.S. Have confirmed that today I am much like a hallicinagetic toad. The kitten licked me then fell over in a sodden drunken heap.

Indeed, it seems that everyone thought I was a short asian kid. So when I finally get to be a council member I think I know my custom title - "Not a short Asian kid".

Don't worry about the snoring, that didn't actually keep me awake at all. I really just appreciate the place to stay when I changed my plans at the last minute. I owe you guys the next time.

Oh, and I was reading Wert's update to the thread of known information on DwD,

SPOILER: and
I think it should be added that George stated pretty definitively that Winds will once again have all the characters and he won't be splitting POVs like that again. The current version says it is unknown how he plans to continue in the future. But he did add to that "I need to kill some fucking characters."

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Guest Ro_
SPOILER: ADwD

Well, well, we'll see if Mel's chapter is called 'The Red Fraud' or something like that; or, even more revealing just 'Epilogue' ;-).

If there is anyone out there who made more detailed notes during the reading, then we should open a Quentyn I thread in the ADwD forum.

Oh, and my thoughts on the chapter (I've not been there, I' just speculating):

As Volantis is supposed to be the Free City that holds yet almost completely to valyrian custom (meaning that they most likely still stick very much to slavery; Pentos only abandoned it 'officially' because the Braavosi forced them to), it's understandable that they don't like Dany's anti-slavery politics.

Volantis still speaks Valarian, but a corrupted version of it. I took it to mean word shift rather than accent, etc. Evidently Volantis has five slaves for every free man and the slaves are marked with a variety of signs by a tattoo on their cheek. The innkeeper convinced Q that they must use the dwarf elephant carts to travel, as a man can lose standing by walking. However, the innkeep also had a cousin who just happened to have a (??livery? elephant??) stable. :P

One thing I just remembered - on the way back to the inn, the group tries to get Q to stop and watch a comedy show, but he won't have any of it. He doesn't want laughter, he wants to serve Dorne and get to his bride. The interesting thing about the comedy show? It was two dwarves dressed in tin armour, one mounted on a pig and one on a dog. Same as at the Purple Wedding perhaps?

The whole mercenary recruiting could be either done for the Golden Company (who might try to get rid of Daenerys and take the dragons to finally establish what they deem the true dynasty to the Iron Throne - all under the assumption that there is still a pretender within their ranks who has a sufficient claim to Iron Throne; or they might hire sellswords to join their forces with Daenerys, seeing her as an opportunity to get 'home').

The mercs were shouting out their company names, but ofc I don't remember them. Not ones I remember hearing before.

On the other hand, the Volantenes themselves might recruit troops to free Meereen from Dany's rule to reestablish the business connections there. And there is the matter of Aegon refusing the offer of the Volantenes to rebuild Valyria's glory with his three dragons. Volantis (or, rather, the families in power there) might not have forgotten that slight. And with a Targaryen having dragons again, there might have come the time to settle things once and for all with House Targaryen.

The chapter seems to be set during late ASoS or early AFfC, as Quentyn still is unaware of the fact that Lord Tywin is dead. That means that Quentyn's mission started rather early (in AFfC it was never made clear - or I do not remember - when Quentyn was seen leaving Dorne), maybe even before Oberyn left for KL.

Q was called to his father in the water garden, where the children are, and his father gave him his directions. His internal flashbacks don't indicate a timeline more than it was before Doran left the water garden. Q had also rejected suggestions to return to Dorne because he refused to fail his Father, Dorne, and the most beautiful woman in the world.

And as Quentyn is that early already in Volantis, he, most likely, will reach Daenerys in ADwD. Tyrion, maybe, too. But I don't see Marwyn, Victarion (and Euron?) getting to Slaver's Bay in the part in ADwD that is set after AFfC (especially if there are two Cersei chapters set in that part).

Do we know since when Quentyn know about this new role in his father's plans? And does he remember the old plans about Arianne marrying Viserys, and him become the Ruling Prince of Dorne (and if he does, did he prefer that, or is eager to become Westeros' first Prince Consort; oh, and if thinks about that, is the Dance of Dragons and Rhaenyra mentioned?)?

No mention of any of that. :(

Does Quentyn think about his father and/or Lord Yronwood in the chapter? Arianne thinks he resembles Doran physically and mentally. Is it explained (or indicated) where he got his sense of duty and honor? And is there any indication that Lord Yronwood has still ill feelings against the Martells (because of Oberyn's actions), or thinks he about the Yronwoods fighting in three Blackfyre rebellions (might be possible with the news about the Golden Company coming to Volantis)?

Yes, he thinks about both of them. Is this the intro chapter to Q? I think it must be, since we were given a brief physical descrip - he has brown hair and a large jaw IIRC. Nothing on height or attractiveness that I recall.

Oh, and on Cersei's chapters:

Are they subject to the editorial decision as well, or does that apply only/more to the Sansa chapter, that has already been moved to TWoW?

I got the impression that if the chapter suited, it had been moved and other chapters may be moved as well. No indications that some chapters must be in one book or the other. It was more than just the Sansa chapter that has been moved - I mentioned the Arya one up there ^ and I *think* there were more.

Sorry, answered within the quote, with my responses in bold.

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OMG, the Con was AMAZING!!! Tony, the Con Director, was very personable and nice, and talked to our group quite a few times.

Kasteen put on an FANTASTIC party. It was off-the-chain fun. Everything was 100% spot-on perfect. You rock, babe! :)

The cleavage contest was fun...it was all for charity, dont'cha know.

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