Best Served Cold SPOILER THREAD

[Willie McBride]

Sulfur was the one operating as the leader of the peasant rebellion that Jezal 'heroically' defeated, and later impersonating the High Justice. Yeah, he seems to be an Eater.

He is also the one who killed the younger son of the High King and implicated the Gurkish envoy in the assassination, paving the way for Jezal to become king and destroying any possibility of a negotiated peace between the Union and the Gurkish Emperor (as opposed to the Prophet and his Church). He impersonated the prince's bodyguard when Glokta started his investigation.

Bajaz himself admits that Sulfur is an eater in one of the final chapters, if I remember correctly he says that occasionally he has been known to indulge in human flesh.

[mormont]

Finished this last night. A few thoughts:

Let's start with the fact that I loved it. I loooooved it. :)

I also echo the person who said earlier that it's refreshing to get a single-volume fantasy, and I felt it was actually the ideal length. Didn't feel rushed, didn't drag, told the story he had to tell in a single volume and it was just right.

I was a little surprised to see so many cameos by 'First Law' characters, but they really all worked incredibly well and fit in naturally - with the possible exception of Carlot dan Eider. Her part could really have been filled by someone else, and so did feel a little like an add-on for fans instead of a natural part of the plot. Still, this is not really a complaint, just an observation.

Excellent new characters as well. I really appreciated and enjoyed reading about Monza, Morveer, Day, Shenkt and Friendly. Even the more minor Orso, Rogont, Ganmark, Victus and the other captains were well done.

Excellent old characters too. Joe took Shivers, Vitari and Cosca in some interesting new directions. Again, there was always a certain pleasure just in reading the characters, regardless of the plot.

The ending: I would somehow have liked more deaths. It's not that I'm a sadist (:P), but really only Day and Morveer died. I felt death at Shenkt's hands would have been a fitting end for Shivers, though his actual fate works too. It leaves open the prospect of a return: and provides some balance for Monza's fate (as someone said above). Friendly, much as I liked him, would be my main candidate. His ending, I felt, didn't work as well as the others: his story would have lost nothing if he died, and the ending overall would (I think) have gained weight from more main-character mortality. And it would still be lighter than LAOK! :P

I did see a couple of the twists coming - the chapter where Monza fucks Rogont and Shivers fucks dan Eider never took me in from the first line (there's a reference to 'her smooth leg' which I think blows it early on, but I was sceptical anyway. The sleight-of-pen was obvious, with all the 'she' and 'he' instead of names). I also twigged the bone-thief = Shenkt long before the reveal, though I don't know why. Maybe because I was suspicious that such a seemingly significant character as the bone-thief had disappeared without reference.

Slightly disliked Cosca's return 'from the dead' after being stabbed by Ganmark. In fact at first I assumed Sulfur had taken his place, as the explanation Cosca gave seemed so thin and unlikely. I enjoyed his antics after he came back, don't get me wrong, but the way he 'died' and then came back was, for me, the biggest thing wrong in the book.

The writing was vivid, energetic and simply flowed along beautifully. The fight scenes were particularly well done.

Hmm, think that's it for now... might come back with more once I have digested it more fully. ;)

[ztemhead]

*puts on blinders to the thread*

I'm on the second book now and loving the series so far. It's got me hooked.

I look forward to posting here in a few weeks.

[Arbor Gold]

Finished it last night and definitely loved it, although I got burned out by all the fighting by the end.

Friendly, much as I liked him, would be my main candidate. His ending, I felt, didn't work as well as the others: his story would have lost nothing if he died, and the ending overall would (I think) have gained weight from more main-character mortality.

I think Friendly's end had much stronger emotional impact exactly the way it was. Had he died I don't think it would have hit me very hard, whereas the desperation and loss he feels when he discovers that Safety is no longer...well, a place of safety for him was a very poignant moment for me. I'd have been cool with a Shivers death, I think. His decent into madness was very well done, and it would have been interesting to see him finally become a better man by dying.

I'm irritated with myself - I knew, just knew that Cosca was not drinking alcohol in the flask. I actually thought about what he had in there and realized that whatever it was, Cosca had to obtain it directly from its source. I wondered about the plumbing situation in Styria, thought it awfully inconvenient if Cosca were to fill up at a river every morning, though the goat was silly yet a bit out of place...:dunce:

Mex, thanks for asking about Sulfur - that was my #1 question, and the answers helped pull some things together (although I clearly don't recall The First Law as well as I should).

Loved Jezal's cameo, and at the end of Best Served Cold I couldn't help but think of him and wonder how these events will impact the world we already know.

Oh, minor question: at Rogont's coronation it is mentioned that there are several Northmen there. Why would they care? How did they get there so fast? Their presence seemed out of place, unless I totally missed something.

ETA: Wait, where is Styria, geographically? I always picture it south of the Union but north of...erm...the really far south places, but I have no idea why I think that.

[beniowa]

ETA: Wait, where is Styria, geographically? I always picture it south of the Union but north of...erm...the really far south places, but I have no idea why I think that.

I pictured it as being east or southeast of Midderland. First of all, that's the only space left on the map Wert made a while back. Second, with the city of Westport being the most western part of Styria, having a branch of Valint and Balk, and also having such a diverse number of cultures and peoples, east makes the most sense to me.

[Werthead]

ETA: Wait, where is Styria, geographically? I always picture it south of the Union but north of...erm...the really far south places, but I have no idea why I think that.

I think it's due east of Midderland/Adua. That's an island in the middle (?) of the Circle Sea with the Gurkhish Empire to the south, the Old Empire to the west and the North to the, erm, north, which leaves Styria off to the east. I think.

[Poobah]

I did see a couple of the twists coming - the chapter where Monza fucks Rogont and Shivers fucks dan Eider never took me in from the first line (there's a reference to 'her smooth leg' which I think blows it early on, but I was sceptical anyway. The sleight-of-pen was obvious, with all the 'she' and 'he' instead of names).

Yeah, that really didn't work for me either. I found it rather jarring, just as you did I knew that the ol' switcheroo had been sprung as soon as I started reading the scene.

I've been re-reading the first law and have been pleased during Before They Are Hanged to re-read the scenes with Cosca in them rather differently. Before all the various Styrian names and so fourth were just meaningless background colour, the usual fantasy backdrop of name-dropping and mentioning of events to give depth to the backdrop in front of which Glokta stole the show.

I was especially interested to read that the Grand Dutchess Sefeline of Ospria tried to have Cosca killed because he'd gotten too popular - sound familiar? :) And of course, this :

"...except that she-devil Mercatto caught me unawares. Came on us with cavalry before dawn, sun behind and all, damned unfriendly trick, the bitch-"

"I heard you were passed out drunk at the time," muttered Vitari.

A few other mentions of Orso's campaign across Styria get mentioned in that section and one later with Glokta and Cosca too. Damn Joe, you've definitely got some cunning ways of slipping these things in without clubbing us over the head with the foreshadowing bat (I'm looking at you, Min Farshaw, House of the Undying and the rest of you Prophetic fortune-tellers).

-Poobs

[Imp]

I was a little surprised to see so many cameos by 'First Law' characters, but they really all worked incredibly well and fit in naturally - with the possible exception of Carlot dan Eider. Her part could really have been filled by someone else, and so did feel a little like an add-on for fans instead of a natural part of the plot. Still, this is not really a complaint, just an observation.

Few people have said this, but I didn't really find it unexpected that Carlot dan Eider was there. She ran off to to Styria at the end of LAoK, she's in Glokta / Bayaz's pocket, so it makes perfect sense she'd be sticking close to the nobility and spying there. Tbh I thought she'd have a bigger role.

Vitari showing up was a much more of a surprise to me, but tbh I can't really remember where her character ended up at the end of LAoK.

Overall I thought the book was excellent. Wasn't quite as enjoyable for me and the first law (lack of Glokta will do that), but a very solid read nonetheless.

[Lord O' Bones]

Vitari showing up was a much more of a surprise to me, but tbh I can't really remember where her character ended up at the end of LAoK.

IIRC begging Glokta for her life so she could return to her children.

[Arbor Gold]

Thanks ben and Wert! That makes a lot of sense.

[mormont]

I think Friendly's end had much stronger emotional impact exactly the way it was. Had he died I don't think it would have hit me very hard, whereas the desperation and loss he feels when he discovers that Safety is no longer...well, a place of safety for him was a very poignant moment for me.

While Friendly is nostalgic about Safety, I just didn't get so strong an emotional reaction to that scene. And after all, you could have achieved the same effect by Friendly, as he died, realising that he would never return to Safety now: possibly even wondering if the afterlife would be like Safety.

As it is he rides off into the sunset as Cosca's henchman. An OK ending in its own right, don't get me wrong: but as I say when you combine it with the survival of every other main character other than Day and Morveer, well, I just would have liked another death for emotional impact.

I'd have been cool with a Shivers death, I think. His decent into madness was very well done, and it would have been interesting to see him finally become a better man by dying.

If Shenkt had killed him (as I thought he had) he certainly wouldn't have died a better man. He'd have died at possibly his lowest ebb, betraying Monza. I could have lived with that too. :)

ps: during the chapter 'Inevitable', did anyone else keep hearing Alan Tudyk saying: "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

Just me then? :leaving:

Oh, minor question: at Rogont's coronation it is mentioned that there are several Northmen there. Why would they care? How did they get there so fast? Their presence seemed out of place, unless I totally missed something.

Don't know about how they got there, but if the North is again at war with the Union, then the Northmen are there for the same reason the Ghurkish are - Orso is an ally of their enemy, so Rogont becomes their friend by default.

Few people have said this, but I didn't really find it unexpected that Carlot dan Eider was there. She ran off to to Styria at the end of LAoK, she's in Glokta / Bayaz's pocket, so it makes perfect sense she'd be sticking close to the nobility and spying there. Tbh I thought she'd have a bigger role.

Oh, I suppose it makes sense. But what I said was that it was not necessary: her part in the story (which as you note is small) could have been filled by someone else, whereas this wasn't really true of the other cameos.

[The hairy bear]

Just finished it, and it's been great. As others have said, reading a single fanasy volume it's an unusual pleasure, and while TFL had a bigger scope, perhaps today I'd say that I've preferred BSC.

I suspected Benna and Monza being lovers nearly from the beginning, perhaps because my first impression had been that they were married (due to the conversation they were having at the first chapter). But I loved how we were receiving more clues bit by bit. In fact the book contains a lot of gradual revelations that worked really good, such as the kind of scum Benna was, or how Monza wasn't responsible for many of the things he was accused of.

Perhaps the best moment was when, at the end, Orso revealed that Benna had been in fact planning to overthrew him. In retrospective, Orso had been right, and the seven victims had strong reasons to do what they did. I was specially saddened by the deaths of Faithful and Foscar.

One thing I've been wondering is why Jedzal didn't help his father in law. Three years ago Orso had personally go to Adua to lead their trops in battle, and Bayaz should be interested into having an ally in power. Even if the Union has troops deployed in the North, at least they could have sent some testimonial force.

My only criticisms have already been said: I don't have anything against Cosca surviving, but if he was to return he should have "died" leaving some room for hope. Someone with a survival instinct as Cosca's would not surrender and accept being left for death when the wound was not fatal. The other one is that the figthing scenes at the end were to long and IMO wandered a little too much.

The next book is set in the north. I guess we can expect at least cameos of Logen, Dogman, Shivers, Black Dow, and Bethod's sons. And I'm sure we will be explained how Bethod had gained the assistance of a magician and the control over the Shanka.

Thanks, Joe, fur such an exciting read! :)

[Arbor Gold]

If Shenkt had killed him (as I thought he had) he certainly wouldn't have died a better man. He'd have died at possibly his lowest ebb, betraying Monza. I could have lived with that too. :)

Oh, I guess I wasn't entirely clear...I didn't mean that Shivers would have died as a better man (yes, he was certainly at a low point), I meant that death was the only way he could better himself. That is, he would be doing good by dying.

[Imp]

One thing I've been wondering is why Jedzal didn't help his father in law. Three years ago Orso had personally go to Adua to lead their trops in battle, and Bayaz should be interested into having an ally in power. Even if the Union has troops deployed in the North, at least they could have sent some testimonial force.

My impression was that things just unravelled too fast. Orso lost the majority of his army in a single battle, and went from certain victory to defeat at a single stroke. In the meantime the union was tied up with a war in the north and had no way to respond in time.

[delete this account pls]

The gradual revelations hairy bear mentions did work very well for the most part. The only one I didn't like was about Shivers brother being a right bastard. I know it was meant to paralell Monza and her feelings about Benna, but it seemed a little sudden. My favourite was probably the fact that Orso was *right* about Benna plotting to overthrow him. I also liked how sincere Orso seemed in that final scene. He's such a vicious, cold bastard for most of the book, but I felt like he was being entirely truthful when he told Monza she'd been like a daughter to him.

As for Friendly, I'm happy enough that he survived, because I spent most of the book wanting to give him a big hug. I also felt that Friendly's presence meant that Cosca won't make the same mistakes this time, not with a murderous, incorruptible near-superman as his bodyguard this time.

[Reborn]

Best Served Cold might just be one of the best books I have ever read.

[Hamp]

I'm really looking forward to this book, just got back from a signing session with The Abercrombie and he seems like a nice chap. Since the trilogy rocked I'm pretty sure this will be good, but I'll wait until monday when I'm on an airplane before I start it. The reviews look nice so yeah, this is should be good.

[Maia]

I loved the book - it is a fantasy book I have been longing to read for some time - one told from the POV of a villain, where the villain wins. What could have made it better still would have been if villain's antagonists were decent folks pursuing noble ideals, rather than, for the most part, equally dastardy.

I mean, in the First Law the protagonists are largely bad people, but they seemed to be pursuing a noble goal. Even after the big reveal there was still a feeling that things would have been even worse without their actions. Not here! It is like history, almost... over the top stuff excluded. But it is damn fun over the top stuff.

Great depictions of battles and plots going awry and of various fine specimens of human sociopathy.

Anyway, a few quibbles, as I just can't be wholly satisfied with anything, it seems:

1. Joe is too indulgent to his characters. Far too many of them survive, implausibly so. I understand that crafting a magnificent bastard is a work of love ;) , but writing about such gritty stuff the author needs to be hard, too! In particular, out of Monza, Shivers and Cosca, any 2 of them should have died IMHO.

Personally, I pegged Cosca for Duke of Talins towards the end, since Monza seemed to be really lacking in people skills and aptitude for intrigue. Not that I am unhappy about her survival, since I loved her character, but given that their mission was basically suicidal, killing only Day and Morveer felt cheap.

2. Given various Eaters powers, why didn't they take direct action long since? What constrains them? I mean, Shenkt wanted to get rid of Orso - why didn't he just do it? Why "think" about killing Monza for so long when it would have been so easy for him? Why use her against Orso, instead of just eradicating Orso? IMHO, we badly need to learn limits of various supernatural badasses, otherwise their intervention or inaction feels completely ad hoc.

And BTW, Sulfur seemed completely incompetent in this story - so much so that I was wondering whether he was purposefully betraying Bayaz. Well, maybe he was, we'll have to wait and see in the coming installments.

3. It really felt implausible to me that Monza wasn't raped a few times early in her soldier career and/or didn't have to sleep with her commanding officers, inculding Cosca. And her being pregnant with Shivers' kid just felt totally out there. I mean, she'd have had to be barren or have had an abortion that would have led to the same thing, long since. And excuse, me, she feel off the mountain, too.

If she were to become a Grand Duchess, she could have always adopted one of Benna's bastards, that would have felt much more realistic to me.

4. Cowardly mercenaries, whose ability fluctuates wildly with the requirements of the plot, and much more capable regular troops.

Well, sorry, but mercenaries were much more skilled and disciplined than whatever passed for regular troops in their heyday. That's why they were sought after. And at least during the Huguenot wars in France, they tended to fight well if they were payed. Now, they could go over or refuse to fight if they weren't payed, true. Or rob the countryside. Or even change sides - although IIRC, it mostly happened when they weren't payed. But they didn't shy away from fighting and were better at it than whatever regular regiments that the warring parties managed to raise.

[Tagot]

Just finished it. I thought it was brilliant, and I'm seriously contemplating a re-read to catch up on what I might have missed the first time around. So many little nuggets that pay off later... I just opened to a random page and realized that Salier was the one to first point out that goat's milk is good for the digestion, which Cosca of course referred back to towards the end. The repeating motifs also added a nice touch, especially "what would I do without you." Having that line always (well, almost always) foreshadow an impending betrayal was a nice touch. The second that Morveer said it to Day, I knew what was coming...

I have to admit, though, that it dragged a bit for me toward the end. I've never been a big fan of battle scenes/sieges (the parts in The First Law that took place in the North were a chore for me to get through for that reason), no matter how important they are to moving the plot forward and no matter how well they are written. The effort of imagining so much exhaustive description never seemed to be worth the trouble, for me. The Battle of Ospria especially was a chore for me to get through. Still, the rest of the book more than made up for it.

Come to think of it, maybe I'll get started on that re-read now...

[Foreverlad]

I have mixed feelings about the book, having just finished it. I'm not going to lie, the book took me quite awhile to read, something I hadn't expected.

My main contention is probably the narrative used. In the first trilogy we were provided some partial (as opposed to impartial) yet personal POVs that offered us tainted yet recognizable and understandable things. Battles were chaos and fear, choices were hard-made and reasoned, lust was a battle in itself. Best Served Cold removed the human element of the POV (generally speaking, as there are exceptions) yet left us with a narrative maintaining the same worn veteran perspective.

While we can easily say "war is ugly, what do you expect?", I think the tone and the way things are displayed through the narrative ultimately detracts from the strengths and weaknesses of the characters. If the narrative focuses on too many of the... colorful events and descriptions (a horse taking a shit as a charge begins, for example) the world appears a cold and inhospitable place. When the world is shown as an ugly place, we can hardly blame the characters for moving in the directions they do. In essence: The characters are simply products of their environment, what happens to them, happens.

If the world came off as a little more impartial, I'd likely feel more invested in the characters.

As for the characters, I think Joe did a bang up job with many of them, though I think their flaws were projected a little more than was necessary to drive home the point that they're all fucked up for different reasons.

I think the story was paced well, occasionally suffering from too much political and philosophical exposition. Most of those expositions reinforced the character flaws and notoriety we'd already seen (or at least come to expect), but some of it did help to define the regions and events that lead to the present conditions.

Where the pace truly shined was through the first and last quarters. The initial betrayal was quite well written, giving us more than enough reason to want to follow Monza and her band of bastards.

As for Shivers? I stopped sympathisizing with him before long. While it was a shame to see him fall, he seemed a bit weak in his moral persistence, accepting his role and responsibility with little more than a drop of the coin. Were the world less skewed toward darkness, I would likely feel more inclined to pity him, but he didn't catch a bad break, he simply made poor decisions.

I'm sure plenty of folk will disagree with my complaints, that's okay. I will say it's great to see standalone novels from an author who manages to keep improving each time out.

If this were a formal review, I'd personally give the book 3.5 stars, while offering up 4.5 stars for the types of fans who drool over this kind of story.

Edit: added a word (as if it needed any more...)