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House Targaryen

Mafia Game 65.5: Twonnocent

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I know it's not much, but here it is:

I did not accidently word the bolded part like this.

Furthermore, I tried to derail the Waterman/Wagstaff case because it was based on a FM/symp relationship, which I knew was impossible.

Symps and Healers are the only two roles (besides FM). How can you know there aren't any symps? I can understand how you might object to this symp/fm pairing.

The following roles may be used in the game. And they may be given to any faction.

Healer

Symp

Roles may or may not have additional limitations, requirements, and/or other miscellaneous characteristics not listed above.

There is no limitation on the number of roles that can be given to any one player.

No roles outside the above will be used.

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I was a little late in posting, my response to Thorne was a few posts behind.

I also assumed I was not the only one on my team to have this info. Why would you assume the FM have no symps based on you being an innocent symp (in essence)?

If you were trying to find the other team's symps, why was Waterman/Wagstaff such a bad idea?

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All right, Thorne, I'll play your game.

I think it's pretty obvious as to what I was fishing for here. When I saw Thorne accuse Waterman of being a symp, it rang warning bells in my head, but then Shawney popped up with his case on Waterman and Wagstaff and I decided to question him instead.

And I was fishing here for the same thing:

Why would Waterman try to signal Wagstaff?

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It seems to me that once the initial surprise of being caught out wore off, you went back over your posts and tried to find anything that would look like you were fishing for info. Those are pretty generic quotes.

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Hmm. Okay.

I'll probably consider anybody who can reveal the additional information that I have VPI. If everyone checks in and nobody can tell me what it is, though, then I'll go ahead and reveal it.

Sorry. Just my role, faction, and name team member. Unless you're talking about flavour text, of course, which is against the rules to reveal.

Make sure not to give away your extra information until you're sure no one else knows it.

Also, I just want to toss the possibility out there that the mods sent the names of innocent players to our FM team--or at least, the information that innocent players knew other teammates. It's what I would have done as a mod. I know that minutes after reading my PM, I realized it could be used to CI half of the players unless the mods planned for this.

It's why I'm still a bit suspicious of Shawney. Like Dalt said, I think an innocent would have hinted that he had a teammate. Certainly, he wouldn't have pushed a Day One case based solely on connections between players.

But of course, I can't prove anything. :tantrum:

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Furthermore, I tried to derail the Waterman/Wagstaff case because it was based on a FM/symp relationship, which I knew was impossible.

Why do you say the FM/symp combination is impossible? I think its very unlikely, but I wouldn't go so far as to rule it out 100%.

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I just realized I had more players in this game (in my mind) than there actually are. I was breaking it down 4/4/3, but it's probably along the lines of 4/4/2, so symp would probably be out of the question. Dur. I was factoring a symp into this game.

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It's why I'm still a bit suspicious of Shawney. Like Dalt said, I think an innocent would have hinted that he had a teammate. Certainly, he wouldn't have pushed a Day One case based solely on connections between players.

But of course, I can't prove anything. :tantrum:

So if you think that the FM had this information, why would an innocent hint at it any more than a FM? Wouldn't the FM hint at it more to gain the trust of people 'in the know' subconsiously?

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Sorry. Just my role, faction, and name team member. Unless you're talking about flavour text, of course, which is against the rules to reveal.

Make sure not to give away your extra information until you're sure no one else knows it.

Also, I just want to toss the possibility out there that the mods sent the names of innocent players to our FM team--or at least, the information that innocent players knew other teammates. It's what I would have done as a mod. I know that minutes after reading my PM, I realized it could be used to CI half of the players unless the mods planned for this.

It's why I'm still a bit suspicious of Shawney. Like Dalt said, I think an innocent would have hinted that he had a teammate. Certainly, he wouldn't have pushed a Day One case based solely on connections between players.

But of course, I can't prove anything. :tantrum:

The problem is that there are two innocent factions. Both want to win. The faction that reveals more information is likely going to loose. That's why I did not share my treasure without a good reason.

The real problem is that you won't lynch me today. Or at least you need the FM to do that.

Here is why:

Say a team consists of A, B, C and D

A knows B

B knows C

C knows D

D knows A

Say A is going to get lynched. Then D won't follow the mob. C is thus going to realize that D knows A so A must be on his team and won't join the mob either. Now B sees that C refuses to vote for A and also won't vote for A.

In conclusion, A can only be lynched when the whole other team and the two FM will join the mob. Or if one of B, C or D is willing to sacrifice A.

I really don't see how the FM are going to win this game, to be honest. The whole setup makes little sense to me.

Edit: clarification

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Do you think I came off worse than Thorne in this exchange?

No, Thorne came off worse because of this quote:

Even if you are right - and I see no reason why you'd bring up that issue right now if you were evil, so I will trust you for now - you're probably the only one who is a symp. At least in your team. Would be nice if someone else could confirm your story by also revealing he's a symp.

I also think your explanation for why you didn't come forward until now was plausible:

I know why a lot of you were jumping on me, but I wanted to keep pushing to see where it went. If I played by 'normal' rules and scum tells, I was wondering if it would become obvious who knew there were other reasons why innocents would signal. Maybe I was also taking cues from my partner on who to suspect ... or maybe not. I came to realize that I was becoming a serious suspect and didn't want it to go any further down that road. I'm not sure if I am sorry that meta is being used or not. It's info, it was going to be used at some point, and we are evil bastards that will use what we have. If I didn't do it, someone else would have.

It's a bit subtle and WIFOM. But I can buy this because I was considering making a post along the lines of, "Hey, why don't we mass faction-claim? After all, it really sucks not knowing any of my teammates. :(" I would have at least coded "TRAP" into it or something, though.

All I'm saying is that you're not a CI to me.

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Problem with that is that lots of people aren't around or won't be back til close to morning - the chain could break at any point.

Agreed though, it's not so much a case of finding the FM, but having the innocents keep their team together enough to win.

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The problem is that there are two innocent factions. Both want to win. The faction that reveals more information is likely going to loose. That's why I did not share my treasure without a good reason.

The real problem is that you won't lynch me today. Or at least you need the FM to do that.

Here is why:

Say a team consists of A, B, C and D

A knows B

B knows C

C knows D

D knows A

Say A is going to get lynched. Then D won't follow the mob. C is thus going to realize that D knows A so A must be on his team and won't join the mob either. Now B sees that C refuses to vote for A and also won't vote for A.

In conclusion, A can only be lynched when the whole other team and the two FM will join the mob. Or if one of B, C or D is willing to sacrifice A.

I really don't see how the FM are going to win this game, to be honest. The whole setup makes little sense to me.

Edit: clarification

So who is refusing to vote you? I must have missed that.

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That's cool, Jordayne.

Oddly enough, I was just going to go back and quote that part from Thorne and contrast it to the part where he says his job is to find the other team's symp.

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Am I the only one here who thinks about the balance of a game when he starts playing? Like this:

HOW ARE THE FM SUPPOSED TO WIN IF WE ALL KNOW EACH OTHER?

Furthermore, am I the only one who is thinking stuff like:

IF I'D REVEAL MY ROLE THE FM WILL KNOW THERE IS NO HEALER AND ME AND MY TEAM IS TOAST?

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