Thor85 Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 ETA: Back on topic--I really disliked Dany at first, if only because her chapters took me away from Westeros, where I was enthralled in discovering that world. I'd be like, who IS this strange child and her psycho brother and all those bizarre characters and why should I care? Take me back to Westeros! But I really enjoy her story now, look forward to much more of it. I confess I've got a soft spot now for the Targs. They seem a distinct sub-species to me, gifted and crazy as they are. Like a butterfly in a nest full of moths, or a fairy amongst the leprechauns--not 'better' or 'superior' but oh so different.I'm totally fascinated by that whole family too. It's just that Daenerys sometimes gets on my reading nerves. Reading her chapters is rather engaging story-wise but at moments I just cannot maintain suspension of disbelief anymore as I start wondering if a fourteen year-old girl would really think like that. I know that Targs are not quite human. I know a lot of bad things happened to her early on and she gets pushed into many of her decisions as a a leader. Yet I can't find myself caring for her in the least. Maybe its her rapid maturing that puts me off. I'm also noticing that I'm getting the same vibe with Jon lately, who was actually my favourite character early on. And I actually enjoyed Dany's early chapters before she become the queen of the Khalazar. What gives :( ? Maybe it has something to do with these two characters becoming more conventional in the traditional fantasy sense than most other of GRRM's creations. A disinherited queen who is seemingly destined by the author to win it all back and an ill-treated (he does end up on the Wall with all the criminals) bastard son of a lord who becomes something much more than his father (now where did I read about extraordinary bastard sons in fantasy lately :) ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakka Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 My main problem with Dany and her storyline is the constant "this totally out there exotic, rich and beautiful place is nooo match to the land I've never seen and only heard about from my insane brother who was only a kid when he last saw it" old saw, that's especially grating because we readers are shown the places as they are in reality, not as in a homesick fairytale. It makes it obvious that she's being set up for a huge disappointment, assuming she ever gets to Westeros. She should have buggered off with her dragons to some new place altogether at least one book ago, as it is she's just dawdling and daydreaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Targaryen Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 If I can't stand Daenerys, does that automatically make me a bad person (I also dislike Catelyn with a passion but that would be a topic for a different thread)? Did GRRM even intend for a her to become a likable character?Disliking a certain character does not make you a sexist, either way. It depends on your reasons for disliking that character.I don't hate Dany, but I don't especially like her either. I just don't want any Targ back on the Iron Throne, especially not one who thinks it is her birthright and all should bow down before her majesty. It was only her birthright while there was a Targ on the throne, once they got booted off the rights of birth transferred to the line of the new king.Just had to add this, if Dany were to "boot off" whomever is on the throne when she gets there, would the rights of birth transfer to her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alty Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I don't mind Dany. It's a few of the other females in the series that get me. Generally I don't like as much women in books and TV series as I do men. I don't know why it it but it could be because pretty much all TV series and books I read are written by men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Arya will grow up uglyWhy do you think this? She is described as looking like Lyanna did at her age. Didn't Lyanna grow up to be an attractive woman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward the Great Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Why do you think this? She is described as looking like Lyanna did at her age. Didn't Lyanna grow up to be an attractive woman?Thin, wiry little girls sometimes grow into hot, athletic teenagers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakiki Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I think evidence is gathering that Arya will be beautiful.-Neds tell her that Lyanna looked like she does at her age.SPOILER: A Feast For Crows-The kindly man tells her, when listing possible things that she could do with her life, that she could be a courtesan of Braavos and have singers compose songs for her. He knows how beautiful she will be.-Gendry and Ned Dayne could be noticing her, as well as the creepy man at the Peach. She may already be prettier than she knows. (She hasn't seen herself in years so she has no reason to notice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser_not_appearing_yet Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Why must she be beautiful?Why cant she be average looking? Its not really a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Why must she be beautiful?Why cant she be average looking? Its not really a big deal.Well, yeah. Nonetheless, I was confused as to how it comes to be that one makes a declaration that she will grow up to be ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser_not_appearing_yet Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Honestly, you should all be ashamed of yourselves. There are far more interesting things to discuss. For instance, guns/dragon evolutionary theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Honestly, you should all be ashamed of yourselves. There are far more interesting things to discuss. For instance, guns/dragon evolutionary theory.Then we would be in violation of board bylaw 17.1(b): There will be at all times an active thread on either sexism, abortion, or gun control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BlauerDragon Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Then we would be in violation of board bylaw 17.1(b): There will be at all times an active thread on either sexism, abortion, or gun control.Wait, doesn't sub-section IV (d) Paragraph 7 of that bylaw include an exception or special exclusionary provision pertaining to the ressurection of the Zombie Apocolypse thread? :leaving: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alty Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Maybe it has something to do with these two characters becoming more conventional in the traditional fantasy sense than most other of GRRM's creations. A disinherited queen who is seemingly destined by the author to win it all back and an ill-treated (he does end up on the Wall with all the criminals) bastard son of a lord who becomes something much more than his father (now where did I read about extraordinary bastard sons in fantasy lately :) ).Great post! Never really thought of that but it's probably true! It always seemed to me to be a bit unrealistic how Dany managed to find her way back to Westeros by the most crazy way. I also am not so keen on how her story is more high-fantasy than others. Jon becoming commander is a bit unlikely too. Then again he is a lords son and he was brought up well it would seem so it does seem reasonably logical that he would be selected. I also guess he story is a bit less conventional in that he does actually betray his oaths and ends up having loyalties to two groups. Even though he does go for the side of the nights watch I don't think the reader goes "YAY well done Jon!" for doing this and neither would they if he sided with the wildlings.Also about Arya, I don't really care if she is beautiful or not. She is definitely my favourite female character :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor85 Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 Thin, wiry little girls sometimes grow into hot, athletic teenagers. :cheers: JA! Sharapova is like the hottest woman. Ever! Besides female athletes are the ultimate sex-symbols, way more so than those icky anorexic models. woman athlete = tigress in the sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Bran Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Why do you think this? She is described as looking like Lyanna did at her age. Didn't Lyanna grow up to be an attractive woman?This is quoted out of context, hence the confusion. The poster is saying that Arya is growing up ugly, which is to say that the way she is developing (overall as a human being, not physically per-se) is ugly -- she went to bed every night reciting a list of people to kill. She was being contrasted to Brienne, who's just the normal sort of ugly but with a heart of gold etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimera757 Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Why do you think this? She is described as looking like Lyanna did at her age. Didn't Lyanna grow up to be an attractive woman?This is quoted out of context, hence the confusion. The poster is saying that Arya is growing up ugly, which is to say that the way she is developingShe has a horse face. She's not Sansa, who will look beautiful, but has a worse personality. (I like Arya's current personality. She makes mistakes, but she's what.... 11?)Thin, wiry little girls sometimes grow into hot, athletic teenagers. Below the neck, maybe, not that we'll know for at least 7 years. She's not a typical fantasy girl; I don't want her to grow up to be a "princess". Dany and Sansa are both princesses ... gag. (Cersei too. Sort of.) However, Dany at least has some brains (too much for a person her age, really) and Cersei is a villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nichole Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 That is SO Not Fair. You wound me, truly. I happen to like the free spirited wildling women, I adore Arya, and I have a fondness for the sand-snakes as well. There are a few women in the series that I think might be better as sex slaves than they are as characters, but even then I would much rather see them just killed off or retired from POV status. I do not think that all women should be sex slaves, and truth being told I would find any form of slavery that was not strictly limited to the fantasy realm to be outrageously dispicable. Had I written the series, it would not have been nearly as good, but I don't think it would have a great deal more slavery or violence towards women than it already has.Blauer, I like you, I really do. I didn't mention you in the vanity thread, but I do always read your posts. I may not always agree with you, especially when it comes to fashion. (cough*jeanshorts) But, I'm going to have to say something about this.Really? Sex slaves and if not just kill them? I know we are talking about a fantasy series here, but this attitude is just disgusting. Look, I don't like Catelyn, but that doesn't mean I want her to be raped a-la Goodkind. The bolded part is especially disturbing. You often say you respect women, but there comes a point when I just don't find certain things funny. And that is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor85 Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 I feel compelled to digress :). Whats wrong with jean-shorts? They can be quite fashionable when worn correctly. And didn't Arrested Development make them fashionable once and for all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitheach Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I like Dany, Margery, Arya, Brienne, the Sand Snakes. I like strong female characters and I don't think they're written as men- just strong and smart women/or girls. I was a tomboy as a girl so I can relate to those characters as well... I don't like Caitlyn, Cercei or Sansa (for now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I was a tomboy as a girl so I can relate to those characters as well...This got me thinking, isn't that word redundant? And what is it's opposite, I wonder, a Nancygirl? Dictionary.com was unable to help me out. But I did learn some cool versions in other languages.Wild:Danish: vildkat Dutch: wilde meid German: der Wildfang Just fun to say:Estonian: tüdrukurüblik Probably fun to say if I had a chance in hell of doing so:Polish: chÅ‚opczyca Greek: αγοÏοκόÏιτσο Lany?Hungarian: fiús lány Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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