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More indications about character ages


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Bran: Playing age 8, an extraordinary boy; Aria: Playing age 11 , girl; Sansa: Playing age 13, girl: Daenerys: Must be aged 18+ but look younger, girl; Rob: Playing age 16, male, a heir to the throne; Theon: Playing age 15, male; Jon Snow: Playing age 18-19, but can be aged up to 22, male.

Character ages presents a major problem. If they choose actors who really are the same age than their characters, they will overgrow them quick enough. And it has an uneludible pederastian flavour in some scenes. Remember: nacked 12 year old girl's breast to be touched by an also nacked Dinkdale... Any sane adult mind would spin with the perspective of acting in this scene, I can imagine the making off with her parents, five lawyers and all the technical team watching, and at least ten tv programs discussing if it was or it wasn't child abuse!! And forget about hot stuff between LF and Sansa, at least in screen.

If they don't want to screw the cast, I hope they get some general indications from GRRM about what happens next, so they don't find themselves scratching their heads, trying to figure out how to present a sex scene between a 13 year old girl and an adult without ending in jail.

BTW, I don't understand why do they want to change that much Jon's age, is far too much and changes the relationship between him and his half-brothers. Theon is supposed to be a bit older than the Starks, and this stablishes a different position with them, specially with Rob, who trusts him.

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Not that it makes much of a difference but the characters do age throughout the series as well. I beleive AGOT takes place over 1 or 2 years. By the time Sansa marries Tyrion I think she is at least 14 or 15, not that it makes it anyless pedo.
I seem to remember she was 12 (almost 13) when she married him.
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Not that it makes much of a difference but the characters do age throughout the series as well. I beleive AGOT takes place over 1 or 2 years. By the time Sansa marries Tyrion I think she is at least 14 or 15, not that it makes it anyless pedo.

Actually, it's not strictly pedophilia, not by the psychological definition, if one is attracted to someone who is physically/sexually mature, but underaged. Pedophilia is an attraction to prepubescent children, so in most cases, a 15-year old is not going to still be a prepubescent, and interest in them would be considerably less 'pedo.' That being said, it is still both illegal and probably bad for the kid, in at least most cases and by the legal definition, in most places, it is still often called pedophilia, though it's really an improper usage of the term.

All that being said, I think any scenes where we saw Tyrion naked in bed with a then 13 or 14-year-old Sansa will likely be altered, and it could be done quite easily without screwing with the intent of the scene. You can have the same intent to the scene without Tyrion ever taking his clothes off and climbing into bed with Sansa, especially since...

SPOILER:
...the marriage never is consumated, anyway.
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things that worry me about the casting notes:

in my opinion the toughest roles for the younger actors are those of Arya and Bran. I mean, boys will be happy to become warriors and fight with swords and the like, and while Sansa goes through a lot of grief that may or may not be recounted in the series, Arya and Bran both have difficult roles physically and emotionally.

SPOILER: Arya and Bran's roles
Arya becomes a killer quite young and seems to enjoy her murders quite a lot. Bran gets thrown from a tower in the first episode and will be playing 'crippled' for at least the first four seasons. The actor who plays Bran will have to endure dragging himself around by his own arms, or be carried around by other players, and who knows what else George has in mind for the poor kid. (I know nothing more than you folks know about Bran's future). Would I as a parent of child actors want them to play those roles? I don't think I would.
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Hello, Parris! Welcome back.

I'm going to respectfully disagree on concern for the Arya and Bran castings, but each for different reasons. As a relatively normal parent of a child, I too would not want my kid going through some of the hardships Bran and Arya go through. However ...

(I'm not using spoiler text for my essay, so ... WARNING HERE: spoilers below!)

I would also not want my kid going through the emotional wringer that Sansa goes through; I would argue stabbing a few (...more than a few) people is more fun for a kid than having Joffrey strip you bare, pretend to have grown men beat the crap out of you, and then have a dwarf paw at your breasts. Arya doesn't kill gleefully - she's not Damien, or some creepy adopted chick killing all her brothers and sisters in that movie trailer I'd like to forget. Arya does what she does out of desperate necessity. Even doing away with Dareon I see as her trying to be the Stark at Winterfell - executing a deserter.

But the little tomboy actress who plays Arya is going to be beloved, cheered, rooted for. Sansa's actress, much like Sansa herself, will be woefully under-appreciated, especially for the emotional wringer she goes through. Arya's actress has to convey an appropriate level of pissed-offedness and determination (and athleticism, so no, casting will not be easy), but really, that's all. Sansa's actress will be an emoting roller-coaster from the word go.

Bran will be a special role, for sure, and if the actor is up for it, will be lauded for overcoming all sorts of physical hardships for his role. A non-crippled kid playing a cripple convincingly is sure to gain the notice and respect of other people (read: casting directors) around the world, especially in a high-profile HBO series. We could have the next Daniel Day-Lewis on our hands.

But yes, it would be hard on the kid. All the kids. Would I want my son or daughter going through this hardship just to nail a role in Game of Thrones? Hell no.

But I'm not the parent of a burgeoning actor or actress. I know plenty of Hollywood parents that would, sadly, put their child up for any role ... so long as it gives their kid a career.

ETA: What does worry me about the casting sides is that they don't really tell enough about the characters. Do they even mention Arya needs to be a tomboy? The casting sides describe the kids as "nobles." If Arya's actress comes in expecting to play a typical noble, she's already missed her mark.

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I would be most worried about the physical difficulties of doing the role, than anything else. I'd be worried that this aspect of the role could be hardest on the kids, especially for the actress playing Arya in Season 2, but I agree, also for Bran. I assume that the EU has child labor laws like the U.S. which limits the time kids can work per day, so that will help a lot, from the point of view of being less grueling on the kids. (Now, this is a problem for the series and probably helps explain why the shooting schedule I've heard about for the pilot is rather long, it's gonna make it more expensive, time consuming and harder to shoot, but I assume all of that has long since been taken into consideration. There are ways to mitigate this by shooting half the day scenes with the kids and half scenes they aren't a part of, but it still makes scheduling more difficult.)

I don't see play-acting a part where the kids do things like stab people or have to deal with blood or other such things as that big a deal if only because it's fake. I've seen countless horror movies where kids are in scenes involving blood, scary things or disturbing imagery and are often the ones perpetrating the horrible acts. The kids will know its fake and and play-acting and in that it's no different than games I remember playing when I was a kid. We'd play Cops'n'Robbers, Cowboys'n'Indians, Army, and we were always pretending we got shot and playing dead or whatever. I think one game was a variation on freeze-tag, where one person was a zombie, and everyon he caught became a zombie too. Some days we would whip up some fake blood or someone would find a ketchup packet so we could make our games more realistic (much to our moms' mutual annoyance, cause they wound up washing our cloths after). I think most well adjusted kids can do fine with this aspect of it, but I agree I'd be worried about the physical aspect of it for some of the roles.

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I don't see play-acting a part where the kids do things like stab people or have to deal with blood or other such things as that big a deal if only because it's fake. I've seen countless horror movies where kids are in scenes involving blood, scary things or disturbing imagery and are often the ones perpetrating the horrible acts. The kids will know its fake and and play-acting and in that it's no different than games I remember playing when I was a kid.

It is known! :) I agree, I've also seen movies where little kids can do the most horrible things without a blink; I think they know it's fake, make up and false blood, don't they??

But if have to admit that, if I were a 12 year old girl, it would be disturbing for me to act in such a scene, no matter how carefully they prepare it, no matter if the partner is a nice guy without bad intentions. On the other hand, if I were the adult male partner I wouldn't feel comfortable with it! I admit they can change a bit the scene with Tyrion, and make it less disturbing for the kid, BUT if they choose a really young girl to play Sansa, they'll better ask GRRM what comes next... I doubt it would be legal to play an explicit scene with someone under 18. That's the reason to pick a Daenerys +18, isn't it?

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Bah! All these rules about consensual sex are inhibiting the HBO series! Down with them all! :angry:

:leaving:

I'm not too sure what Arya's actress would have to endure that'd be so hard- there isn't all that much slaughter for her, just some stabing on her part, and maybe some sights she sees.

Then again, I'm not a kid anymore, and not a female either, so I wouldn't understand what's considered "disturbing".

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I don't think that it would be that disturbing, she probably watches TV with probably worse scenes and knows it isn't real blood/stabbing (not including sex scenes imo she should be at least 16 or more for that).

Something funny that I heard or read somewhere: There was a poll in the US about what do you find more "disturbing" and the first place got a naked woman or just breasts showing (I forgot but it was somewhere in that neigbourhood), and on the second place was a SEVERED HEAD. How the hell can a SEVERED HEAD come after the naked lady i don't get.

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Hollywood can find a way-- like they could use a body double for Sansa in that scene with Tyrion for example.

Funny how so many people are arguing how accurate the show has to be when covering female nudity but no-one seems to be bothered about how we wont be seeing Tyrion's erect member in the show. It all sounds a bit like dual standards to me. Being HBO, I'm sure they'll get some flaccid penises in shot whenever they can though ;)

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I don't think that it would be that disturbing, she probably watches TV with probably worse scenes and knows it isn't real blood/stabbing (not including sex scenes imo she should be at least 16 or more for that).

I'd go so far as to say that it's less disturbing to act in the scene than for someone the same age to watch it. When filming something the illusion is somewhat ruined whereas for a viewer you can totally buy into the reality of it (if it's well made). I guess that's why minors can star in 18 certificate films - I wonder if child actors are allowed to admit they've seen the film? Woould this mean half the primary cast of AGOT wont be able to buy the DVD of the show for several years ? :unsure:

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Funny how so many people are arguing how accurate the show has to be when covering female nudity but no-one seems to be bothered about how we wont be seeing Tyrion's erect member in the show. It all sounds a bit like dual standards to me. Being HBO, I'm sure they'll get some flaccid penises in shot whenever they can though ;)

Except that Dinklage is 40 years old and whoever is going to be playing Sansa will be underage, that's why it's an issue.

Nobody is talking about the numerous scenes where the actress playing Cersei will be naked, or when Catelyn gets out of bed nude in the first episode when Maester Luwin brings Lysa's message to her and Ned.

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with regard to the triple x scenes, yes, I agree, you should watch it a bit.

but a little blood being splattered around in a studio? that is not going to traumatise a kid (at least not a sane kid, I cannot vow for any of these kid-star-actors). I admit that I too for a long time never saw an animal slaughtered and always bought my neatly packed meat in the supermarket, but a lot of young adolescents in generations before us grew up knowing how to skin a rabbit or slaughter a pig. And they saw that stuff going on from a very early age.

This is acting, with fake knives that retract not puncture, aren't we being over PC by suggesting that might harm a child. Then again, I am from a country where we learn to ride our bikes without helmets, so we're positively insane.. :smoking:

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Except that Dinklage is 40 years old and whoever is going to be playing Sansa will be underage, that's why it's an issue.

Nobody is talking about the numerous scenes where the actress playing Cersei will be naked, or when Catelyn gets out of bed nude in the first episode when Maester Luwin brings Lysa's message to her and Ned.

You could portray Tyrion as naked without actually showing it on seen. Camera close ups on the face, Sansa's look of disgust, Tyrion's pile of clothes on the floor etc. He could still be clothed, but giving of the impression to the audience that he's not.

Or you could use blue screen, if you HAD to (but you dont).

These kids will be fine, stop worrying.

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I can admit to not being 100% up on all the various legal clauses; what constitutes as something needing an X rating, and something that does not. Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure a naked, erect penis constitutes an X rating, and thus won't be seen (Knight O Pansies is lamenting Sam's thick pink mast already, I know).

There was an infamous indie movie, a few years back, called The Brown Bunny. In it, lauded actress Chloë Sevigny famously performed fellatio on-camera on her costar (and director), Vincent Gallo. I remember the fuss, of course, and the fact that they were trying to avoid an X rating on the film by pointing out the fact that Vincent Gallo was never technically erect during the scene. I don't know if their argument worked, but the movie certainly got its share of attention.

(What that says about Gallo, well, I've no idea - a different subject to be sure)

Most penises (penisi?), when shown on-screen, are flaccid.

...

Further proof this forum is unafraid to talk about anything.

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Except that Dinklage is 40 years old and whoever is going to be playing Sansa will be underage, that's why it's an issue.

Nobody is talking about the numerous scenes where the actress playing Cersei will be naked, or when Catelyn gets out of bed nude in the first episode when Maester Luwin brings Lysa's message to her and Ned.

Yes, my point. I usually think the fuss about how many inches can you see before it is xxx is simply stupid and hypocrite, but an adult with a kid simply makes my mind spin. This is deep in the THIS IS NOT RIGHT category in my mind, what can I do!! Besides, this would suppose major legal problems if they were to play it in an explicit way. The B plan is to adapt the scene and play it more allegoric, which is also possible.

If they don't have a problem with a Jon about 22, why not a Sansa about 14-15, played by an actress older than 18?

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Actually, it's not strictly pedophilia, not by the psychological definition, if one is attracted to someone who is physically/sexually mature, but underaged. Pedophilia is an attraction to prepubescent children, so in most cases, a 15-year old is not going to still be a prepubescent, and interest in them would be considerably less 'pedo.' That being said, it is still both illegal and probably bad for the kid, in at least most cases and by the legal definition, in most places, it is still often called pedophilia, though it's really an improper usage of the term.

All that being said, I think any scenes where we saw Tyrion naked in bed with a then 13 or 14-year-old Sansa will likely be altered, and it could be done quite easily without screwing with the intent of the scene. You can have the same intent to the scene without Tyrion ever taking his clothes off and climbing into bed with Sansa, especially since...

SPOILER:
...the marriage never is consumated, anyway.

Stanley Kubrick was able to have the scenes between James Mason and Sue Lyons in Lolita (this was in the early 1960's folks) quite obvious in its intent. Could they have the two actors, in whatever scenes a character is supposed to be underage, simulating sex? No.

But it can be obvious what's about to happen.

So, I imagine they (the director, screenwriters, etc...) will be able to work things out in AGoT through innuendo... When the character is supposed to be young.

Funny though, no one is concerned with the actress who will play Arya and all the death she will cause. Violence is ok I guess, but no to sex? Sansa's character will be how old? If people are concerned with the supposed sex scenes (???) with Sansa, why dont they choose an actress who looks 14 but is 18? Not difficult these days.

Lets relax, it's HBO. It will be tasteful and titillating, not pornographic. Violent, but not stupidly so. :-)

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Stanley Kubrick was able to have the scenes between James Mason and Sue Lyons in Lolita (this was in the early 1960's folks) quite obvious in its intent. Could they have the two actors, in whatever scenes a character is supposed to be underage, simulating sex? No.

They laid in bed together with clothes on and they kissed a few times, that's as far as it went. The shots fade out after that.

I didn't see it, but I hear the more recent adaptation of "Lolita" with Jeremy Irons was a lot more explicit and the girl who starred in that movie was also underage, but I'm not sure how far it actually went.

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