Change Making Changes (Changes!)

[About Yea High]

(Spoiler-filled, of course - ardent fans of Lommy Greenhands avert thy eyes)

One of the more popular subjects of late has been the small "tweaks" found in the recent casting sides and in the leaked script. Love them or hate them, people on the Westeros forum are finding out what most everybody in show business already know: no book is sacrosanct. Inevitably there will be differences between George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire and HBO's Game of Thrones. The question I have isn't if there will be changes (covered quite succinctly in another thread), but rather:

How much change are you willing to put up with before throwing up your hands and declaring Game of Thrones to be Satan's work?

I think of HBO's True Blood; in the Sookie Stackhouse novels, one of the supporting characters is killed early on as a part of the story, yet in the television series, the actor made such an impression on producers and fans alike, he was spared and kept around (and is still kickin' thus far in season two).

Is there a chance of this happening in Game of Thrones? I don't think too many people will howl if, say, Lommy is spared an episode or two. But what about something more significant? Say, the actor playing Ned strongarms his way into the collective hearts and minds of the viewing populace and gets spared the axe? If he makes it to season two and is instead killed in single combat by Jaime, or is tickled to death, or whatever, does that deviate so much as to make it unwatchable to most of you?

I'm not playing Chicken Little, and no, I know the sky isn't falling. I don't think there will be an overt amount of deviation unless directed by Mr. Martin, as he will remain intimately involved in this. But as we've seen, there will be changes. I'm just asking what the difference is between a shrug and a scream.

Aside from the series not happening at all, I think the worst thing that could happen would be Mr. Martin divorcing himself from the series he created, ala Alan Moore. No one really wants to see the words, "...BASED ON the best-selling fantasy series..."

[TrueMetis]

If they make a major change like keeping Ned alive then you've effectivly changed it into a different story all together probably turning all ASOFAI fans of the show.

That having been said I seriously doubt that GRRM would allow that to happen.

[Brude]

Ned's death in particular is key to how he wanted to tell his readers the rules of his series...that there are no rules, well, not entirely. That any character, even the ostensible 'hero' of the story can be killed off. Lose that and you lose a significant piece of what makes the books work so well.

It's hard to comment on changes we haven't seen yet, so to comment on the ones we have:

The little scene between Jaime and Tyrion in the brothel works great and almost felt like a scene 'skipped over' in the books, but that could work very well in the show to help develop Jaime. Love it.

The Ned/Jaime meeting I always had some trouble with because I didn't like how it was written. A confrontation like that could work fine, and maybe the actors will sell it better than it's written, or will work on it in rehearsals. I'm not totally against it, just not in love with the current execution we've seen. Also, it seems a minor thing, but I do hope they go back to Jaime saying he killed Aerys with the sword and not the spear. I just re-read the flashback in Storm of Swords where he describes the moment in detail, Jaime with the sword across his knees, sitting in the Iron Throne really could and should be one of the iconic images of the series. It already is for readers of the book - somehow the spear doesn't capture that image so well, at least in my imagination.

The Cersei/Catelyn interaction in Bran's sick chamber - at first, based on the description (since I haven't seen those lines), I was kind of shocked by it, but I think I understand how it's going to fit in and how it will all be explained away in the end, and I think it could work very well. There is a logic to doing it , and it can work very well. The black haired second son...it will only be a stronger clue that Ned, and Jon Arryn before him can pick up on. Also, it might make it so they don't have to run around as much looking at Robert's bastard born. Just that kid and Gendry, and maybe the girl in the brothel, will be enough to drive the point home. Edric Storm can be left for later, maybe, and Maya Stone maybe, maybe not. She's mentioned in Ned and Robert's conversation so we could yet see her, but she's not too important.

[Gertrude]

Ned's death is critical. If they puss out on it I will be very wroth.

I don't mind tweaks here and there, I'm open to seeing a different interpretation or spin. I would like to see the sword over the spear, but it won't make me pull out my hair.

Although I love the Arya chapters, a lot of what is happening there could be condensed a ton, as long as they keep the fierceness and determination to get 'home'. They could (possibly) cut out her trip to Harrenhall and have Jaqen just give her the coin when she rescues him - have him say he will dedicate 3 deaths to the Gods instead of having Arya name them if they think it an important detail to keep in. (do I want that? No, but I'd live) They could cut a lot of the Brotherhood, as long as we are introduced to unDondarrion and understand what is happening. Cutting out his and Sandor's sword fight would be ok if we already understood what was happening with him and Thoros.

It's hard to imagine the story with things we all know and love changed, but (for instance) I can see a way to keep Cat in Winterfell and circumventing the whole Tyrion capture. I don't know why they would want to, of course, but it's possible.

Things they SHOULD NOT CHANGE or I feel it would ruin the series:

Ned's strict code of honor and consequent death

the fall of Winterfell

Red Wedding

Dany's Dragons (duh)

John's 'desertion' of the Black, and subsequent rise to Lord Commander

Keep Arya a fierce little survivor and don't make her a meek victim

Tyrion's relationship with his family (Tywin/Cersei/Jaime/Joff)

Littlefinger marrying Lysa, then killing her

Sansa's character development

Jaime's hand and change of character

As I was thinking about this, I can almost see them cutting out Renly, and relegating Stannis to the background - not a claimed King, but just brooding in the background, really downplay the Iron Isles and use them to emphasize the war aspect (essentially raiders taking advantage where they can) and narrow down the focus to Stark v. Lannister. Would this be upsetting? Yes. Would it be fatal? Probably not.

Looking at Brude's example, I think they could just as well have Ned find some secret notes Jon Arryn had hidden and leave it at that. It would be explained well and leave time to develop other plotlines.

[Silverstar]

I'm happy with changes and additions so long as they don't (a) dramatically change the story (i.e. deciding not to kill Ned off in season one) or (b) dramatically change a character (i.e. as someone suggested in a different thread, having Catelyn sleep with Jaime just because they think it'd pull in more viewers).

Small changes are fine, and I'm actually looking forward to additional scenes, so long as they are true to the story and the characters. I liked the Tyrion brothel scene, for example, and the Catelyn/Bran scene from the pilot.

[WightMeWorry]

I was just re-reading Meera's tale of the Knight of the Laughing Tree... How much tampering with the Harrenhall tourney/Robellion backstory could we tolerate?

[flying mosquito]

I don't know yet where my line is, but there IS a line.

Little details that just give some colour and help to define characters, or little omissions that are not essential to the story are ok. I really don't need to see the complete array of dishes in the Red Wedding. But i DO want to see the Red Wedding! This is allready a great (gigantic) story, and it would be very sad to see it artificially sweetened. If they add a scene with Cat seducing Jaime for his daughters sake, I quit!!

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

Letting Ned live would ruin the entire series. I'd probably break my tv. However, i REALLY doubt they would (let him live), since its obvious the reason they bought this series was that they wanted a fantasy, yet with something very different. If they killed of Ned, they might have well have bought the rights to some other fantasy series which does stray away from that sort of thing and would be easier to make.

I'm completely against anything which dilutes or sweetens the style of SOIAF. Plot changes i can handle, so long as they still make sense.

[sakuradite]

I'm definitely concerned they won't bother with Renly. From the viewers perspective there are six people going for the throne, five of them in Westeros. Which is probably hard to keep track of when it's cut down. Out of all of them, he dies first, doesn't have a great deal of importance, and his story finishes very finally. They could have the Tyrells as a bannerhouse of the Lannisters at the start without having to change a great deal.

It'd be pretty sad if they do though. Renly has a lot of very amusing lines, but more importantly, he's very pretty and Loras is very pretty and there's major wasted fangirl potential if they scrap him. Although, I'd rather they removed him than made him practically bald and forty like lots of the suggestions on the casting thread.

Lots of characters are going to be cut, obviously, and I suspect quite a few of the cut ones will be combined with ones they're using, which should be very amusing/confusing/disturbing for existing fans of the series, depending on how they do it.

[About Yea High]

The issue with Renly, I believe, is directly related to Brienne. She doesn't keep her story without him dying in her arms. If you take Renly, you take Brienne ... or you change her drastically.

Also, don't forget that Margaery has to be married to someone before Joffrey, else the issue of her maidenhead isn't even really an issue.

Plus, who would Loras love?

So I don't think they'll remove Renly altogether - I think they'll maybe lessen his role, if that.

[spikebrennan]

... really downplay the Iron Isles and use them to emphasize the war aspect (essentially raiders taking advantage where they can) and narrow down the focus to Stark v. Lannister. Would this be upsetting? Yes. Would it be fatal? Probably not.

A case could be made (note that I am not making it, I'm just pointing out that it could be made) that one could cut the Iron Islands _entirely_. Theon drops out of the story, and perhaps his role is assigned to Ramsay Bolton instead. Naturally, problems will arise around Season 4-5 when we don't have Victarion's expedition to find Dany.

[Kinski]

As long as the don't do any major changes I'm happy. They can change minor events and add scenes, but don't change things like Ned's death or the Red Wedding. When it comes to minor characters like Renly I would be very disappointed if they removed them, they can limit their screen-time instead.