Will the series go the same way the Harry Potter movies did?

[cjfshaw]

So I don't know how many people here have read the HP books, and seen the related movies. But personally, I think that if you hadn't read the books the movies would be pretty confusing (specifically the last three, 1-3 were fine by me). I'm really hoping that the ASOIAF series doesn't go this route, meaning that I hope it makes sense to people who haven't read the books. Since they have a lot more show time per book, do you think the movies will be clear?

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

Probably not, since in a series you have the ability to broaden the plot, which allows for more continuity with the books. At least, we hope. :P

Undoubtedly if you want the full ASOIAF experience reading the books will always be preferable to watching the series, in a similar way to HP and LOTR. Its important to remember the differences between TV series and films however.

[Brude]

I never read the HP books and the movies make perfect sense to me, including #6, which I saw last night.

[Dire Wolf Summer]

I never read the HP books and the movies make perfect sense to me, including #6, which I saw last night.

I feel the same way too. I haven't read the HP books for about a year but yet the movies 3 to 5 are so well done that you can enjoy the movie and it still made sense plot-wise.

[cjfshaw]

A lot of people I know didn't read the books and said the movies didn't make sense when they saw them. I read the books but I agree with them, I think the movies are pretty confusing if you didn't read the books.

[williamjm]

I never read the HP books and the movies make perfect sense to me, including #6, which I saw last night.

I agree, they're not exactly difficult films to understand - although a Game of Thrones will have a significantly more complex plot so it would be more likely to confuse casual viewers than HP would.

[Brude]

I agree, they're not exactly difficult films to understand - although a Game of Thrones will have a significantly more complex plot so it would be more likely to confuse casual viewers than HP would.

But they will also have about 10 more hours of screen time for a similar sized book to convey the story, so again, I'm still not too worried.

I don't think the plotting of Thrones will be any more complex than, say, "The Wire." In fact, knowing the two stories as intimately as I do, I think Ice & Fire is a bit less complex than The Wire (which admittedly is about as complex as it gets). But the beauty of having 12 or 13 hours of time to tell your story is that you can spread things out, deal with more of the details and give the audience a chance to absorb everything and even go back and catch up, which in just a 2-3 hour movie would go by at break-neck speed and be impossible.

[Jane Doe]

I feel the same way too. I haven't read the HP books for about a year but yet the movies 3 to 5 are so well done that you can enjoy the movie and it still made sense plot-wise.

I'm going to watch the movie tomorrow, but judging from the response I got online,

Spoiler

How can they make sense out of the 7th book with the limited mentioning of horcurxes?

spoiler end;

This being said, when I was reading the blog entries about HP, I was so relieved that GRRM is going to be involved heavily in TGOT. The book is so much more complex than HP plotwise. I know TV is different from movies, but I still think writers, even with good intention, are capable of destroying the book.

When I was talking to my coworkers today, we both agreed that PJ's love of LOTR and HP's directors', lack of HP, made the difference.

[iheartseverus]

It's really true, I guess, that movies made from books just ARE wildly different than the books, for die-hard book fans. I've been a member of a dedicated HP forum for years, we've discussed, argued, hashed over every word in every scene in every HP book, ad infinitum. To such 'involved' readers, the movies can be enjoyable at the same time they're heartbreaking when they simply skip over, omit, ignore those pinpoint-fine moments that we reveled in when reading. The new HP movie is on track to rake in the biggest box office take ever. But there are moments...moments...that touched our hearts in the books, that gave us food for good, fulfilling discussion, that are crystal clear in a reader's mind and always will be, that simply aren't there in the movie. Gone. Ignored. Never even addressed. Not to spoil the HBP movie for anybody with the major omissions, but one of those 'pinpoint-fine' moments for me and many others was Fawkes, Dumbledore's phoenix. In his grief, he called out haunting song that echoed through the grounds and halls of Hogwarts and seemed to fill the air for long moments. Everyone stood where he was, no one moved, no one spoke, as the grief-laden tones rolled through the halls and empty corridors and finally faded away. In the movie? Fawkes simply flies away and he's gone. ARRGGHH! To me, that scene as written was lovely, haunting, perfect movie material. To me, but obviously not to the movie people.

I'm sure we're all going to 'suffer' the same 'oh no' reaction to the HBO pilot of GoT. Its inevitable. Yet, to the vast movie audience who've never read the HP books or the ASOIF books, the movies are great just as they are. I'm already steeling myself for the 'oh no' moments when I watch HBO's pilot (and hopefully future installments) but in truth? I wouldn't miss it for the world.

[Brude]

SPOILER: spoiler

How can they make sense out of the 7th book with the limited mentioning of horcurxes?

Well, it's a big part of the 6th movie. Also, books 7 will be split into two movies because there is just too much material in the final book that can't be skipped, so there will be a Deathly Hallows Part 1 and Part 2 (unless they give one of the movies a different name).

Jane Doe, you can spoiler tag your posts like this:

<spoiler=type heading here>Type spoiler text here.</spoiler>

Only you should replace the < and > with [ and ], so the above will read:

SPOILER: type heading here

Type spoiler text here.

[The Pita]

It won't go the way of HP for a few reasons:

1. This is an HBO production. HBO=high quality, for the most part.

2. If it isn't understandable, it won't be picked up.

3. ASOIAF sells significantly less than HP, so they won't have the fan backing to release it no matter if it sucks or not. Therefore, if it is too insular, it won't last.

4. It'll have a lot more time for plots and subplots. Assuming 52 minute episodes (Like True Blood) and 12 seasons, we have 10.4 hours for one book, where HP has, at max, 3. This is compared to somewhere around an average of 500 pages a book for HP books and 900 pages a book for ASOIAF books. The ratio of pages/hours for HP is 166.666..., while the ratio of pages/hours for ASOIAF is 86.538..., a little bit more than half the ratio HP has. The ideal pages/hours ratio is 60, where each page lasts a minute, but that is impossible to reach, unless you're writing a TV show like Dexter or True Blood, where the source material isn't nearly enough for 12 episodes (300 page books stretched out for a season, meaning a ratio of around 25 pages per hour. This is ignoring the fact that Dexter parted from the books severely somewhere around the middle of season 1), so they have to expand subplots. Even if ASOIAF goes the same way HP movies did, it definitely won't be to that extent.

Yes, I have fun with calculators.

[Brude]

The ratio of pages/hours for HP is 166.666..., while the ratio of pages/hours for ASOIAF is 86.538..., a little bit more than half the ratio HP has. The ideal pages/hours ratio is 60, where each page lasts a minute

The number of book pages has nothing to do at all with the number of script pages/minute. The page/minute count only has bearing on the script itself - the modern script format was developed such that it works out that way (and is easy to read).

[LugaJetboyGirl]

IIRC, the director/producers of the Harry Potter movies have officially decided that they no longer really need to explain things in the film, given that the vast majority of people seeing the movies will have read the books. Those who have not can always ask they're friends who have, I guess.

I think the sentiments already expressed here are about right - HBO will have to be more concerned with making a good show than translating the books to the screen - the episodes will HAVE to make sense, or nobody will watch it.

[The Pita]

The number of book pages has nothing to do at all with the number of script pages/minute. The page/minute count only has bearing on the script itself - the modern script format was developed such that it works out that way (and is easy to read).

I know, but I like it as a general guideline. In any case, my math proves my point. Whatever it was.

[Rimmer]

I'm quite intrigued as to how they will get across the whole geography of Westeros, where the Starks, Lannisters, Baratheons and Arryns all come from, the relationships between all the families, and the backstory (the rebellion, Rhaegar & Lyanna etc). In Harry Potter you're discovering everything at the same time Harry is, so there can be a lot of exposition - and even then a lot of people say it wasn't enough.

[Brude]

Rimmer,

One way they will help people with the geography of Westeros is by showing it in the opening credit sequence at the beginning of every show. Not sure if you've read about that or not, but it reads really well on the page, I thought. You see everything from The Wall to King's Landing, and it comes in to focus on a few locations of import to the first book (The Wall, Winterfell, The Twins, and finally King's Landing).

Interestingly, the sequence is basically identical to an idea a boarder had and posted some weeks before the script got leaked. I still wonder if it was a case of two 'great minds thinking alike,' or if they saw the suggestion here and went with it.

[The Anti-Targ]

The big thing about ASOIAF is that it won't be a series you can pick up part way through. Unlike movies where say for HP if you decided to give HP a go only by the time the 4th movie came out then you've only got about 7-8 hrs of movie watching to do to catch yourself up. If AGOT season 1 is done and dusted on TV and you're thinking of starting to watch on TV from series 2 onwards then you've got ~24hrs of DVD watching to do first. If you don't watch season 1 and have never read the book then if you start with episode 1 of season 2 you are going to be totally lost.

If you haven't read the books, or hadn't got into the first season, are you really going to put that effort in to watch 24 episodes on DVD?

So it's vital for the show to capture a decent sized audience from the start.

[Brude]

The big thing about ASOIAF is that it won't be a series you can pick up part way through.

That's pretty true of most of the HBO and Showtime style shows, though. The great thing about what they are doing is that they are for people with long attention spans and with the advent of things like On Demand and putting the shows on DVD, that allows late comers to either catch up or get into the show in other ways at their own pace.

The Wire is the best example to compare it to. The show is so complex, that trying to get in in the middle is basically impossible and still be able to understand what's going on. I actually got kind of hooked on the show early in Season 5, but I quickly realized I was pretty lose - so I started Netflixing the show and watched it that way for the first time...now I own all 5 seasons on DVD. That's what happens with a lot of people for The Wire and other HBO shows and will (hopefully) happen with a lot of people who find this show late, too.