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Boarders Writing a Novel Thread 3


Gabriele

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I'm curious...how exstensive is everyone's worldbuilding? I'm still working on geography...

I've really focused more on the social aspect of my world rather than the geographical aspects (though I've been careful to make sure that makes sense as well...sometimes I'm remarkably grateful for Wikipedia!). I'm actually doing some tiny world building revision for Winter's Discord while doing some bigger stuff for my present WIP.

Winter has been some of my most extensive world building I've done. The "world" as a whole is set up sort of this manner: the northern "imperial" continent, the southern continent with several nations that figure into the story attached to another Antarctica-like continent by a narrow land bridge. Along the equator are a bunch of islands, called the "Waist Kingdoms" that figure intermittently through the narrative. For the most part, my world is an ocean world with some land on it.

There are three major nations (in draft 5.0) that the story revolves around: Galidan (our "good guy" kingdom) is a mix of European-esque colonists who've forged a kingdom with several of the indigenous people of the continent. The empire (the northern continent) from which they came was destroyed in a cataclysm (a motif in my work it seems, based on what I've written in my present WIP thus far) and has a "seat" on a cluster of islands (about the size of Japan) made of of highly loyal factions to the Imperial dynasty. The other refugees landed west of Galidan. There was a violent period of settlement and squabbling between the refugees/ settlers and the native peoples took place in the land that is now called Seldrik, until they were united by the Witch People (another motif in my work), people who landed in a high valley the day the "Sun broke." In addition to these three, there are "free city" type places that were once pirate dens, a fledgling group of mountain people trying to carve out greatness for themselves as a united nation, two nations of steppe riders (some tropes I just can't avoid), a wizard's island, a Balkanized region of nation states too busy with their own problem and mysterious humanoids (one elf-like, one orc-like) hiding in shadows. Detailed enough? Who knows...but it's certainly helped me understand my world and how it relates to the story.

I'm using the lessons learned from that on my present WIP. The world already exists, in pieces, in my mind, so I'm polishing it up so it'll at least come close to matching the detail and care I've put into the world of Winter.

(If you read the blog you know that I lament often about world building.)

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I think world building is important because it lets you focus in on how each group acts, their social stucture, and how different groups with in them act toward every one else. Its also easier to visualize (for me at least) how a certain scene flows depending on where the characters are (Boyd and Rashyl will behave differently in Daigaard then they will in Bandow for example) After that I can focus in on the hows and whos. So far I have five chapters done, I had six but when I had to reload my computer chapter 6 decided not to come along with the rest.

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I've just written a new prologue. Considering that the initial submission really has to hum, and one has so few pages to do it in, i've gone with my strength to start the prologue. Basically strong characterization and fighting. I have been told by my proofs that its some of my best work yet, and it was a sheer pleasure to write.

I suppose my question for others is if they find it so hard to write something, what drives them on? For me, writing comes easy and quick. My prologue, first draft, is about fifteen or so pages (can't remember off the top of my head, not in the same city as my book right now), and i banged it out in less than a day all told. When i'm out of town i tend to write longhand, and if i don't have material for my main book to work on, i'll start one of my other book ideas. I can generally pound out thirty of forty pages longhand over a weekend, depending on my mood and whether or not i have access to the History channel, which is my crack cocaine.

If its such a grind for some of you, how do you keep motivated? Once my first book gets published (some small conceit...its only hope at this point, but thats what drives me on), i could probably push out a solid sized book in less than eight months, rewrites included. It namely depends on how much subsidiary information i need to create in order to make the world hum.

As for world building, my biggest problem is that i find some of my thoughts very fluid. Ideas on how certain aspects of the history, which have a strong bearing on the present, should be presented has slowed me down some what. As these problomatic details are ironed out however, everything is starting to fucking hum.

Personally, i find the rewrites the most interesting part. I like to think of it as tightening a guitar, making the strings hum so that the music that is put forth is all the better for it. I find the first draft so shapeless. Easy to do, but without the spark of life that should be there.

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I guess one thing that i have noticed over the years, is that some people find world building as an excuse to actually avoid writing itself. One day my writing style just clicked into place, but until that time, i had actually faced the same problem.

I think at the end of the day if one can't make the words work, no amount of cool history is going to save the book. David Gemmell is one of my favorite authors and his world building was, at best, sparse.

Without the characters, the dialogue, good plot and decent prose, no amount of world building will help.

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All right, I've gone through my book again since the beta reading experience and I'm happy with it. I really like it. I'm sending it out--I just have to get this synopsis written. I spent four hours working on it last night and it sucks. This is harder than anything else I've done.

I hope the market is ready for a horror story about men trying to break away from the control of others, including God who seems to have created a system of rigid control over every single person's life. Oh and zombies too.

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the more it interferes, so now the map is scrapped and coming last (ie, at this rate, never) save for a very general "country X lies north

yeah, the best bet is to write the story first, and then add a map.

the ,ost effective map, now that i think on it, may be one like wolfe describes (but doesn't present) for the house absolute: incomplete and contradictory. perhaps it should also be an in-setting map, i.e., one that the characters of the story would know, with any subjective errors that such in-setting cartographers might share--rather than the author's objective map that is incapable of error, contradition, or incompletion. (asoiaf maps appear to be incomplete, but not contradictory or otherwise erroneous--they therefore appear to be the objective map of the author, but coyly unrevealed.)

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the more it interferes, so now the map is scrapped and coming last (ie, at this rate, never) save for a very general "country X lies north

yeah, the best bet is to write the story first, and then add a map.

the ,ost effective map, now that i think on it, may be one like wolfe describes (but doesn't present) for the house absolute: incomplete and contradictory. perhaps it should also be an in-setting map, i.e., one that the characters of the story would know, with any subjective errors that such in-setting cartographers might share--rather than the author's objective map that is incapable of error, contradition, or incompletion. (asoiaf maps appear to be incomplete, but not contradictory or otherwise erroneous--they therefore appear to be the objective map of the author, but coyly unrevealed.)

I know its cliche these days, but I like quests, and an accurate, modern map just interferes with the whole narrative point of a good quest into here be dragonistan for me. I like your idea of an in-world map though, inaccurate, incomplete and replete with its authors biases.

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dragonistan

the refusal to represent dragonistan cartographically in your book is racist against reptilian moslems, i think.

To the contrary, this as yet mostly hypothetical text will be at its core a deconstruction of the notion of the centrality of christian mammalism and will explore at length the cognitive dissonance the characters will need to maintain to keep their faith in the doctrinally orthodox but wildely inaccurate representaion of the world they will pin their hopes upon. A biased map.

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I made a slight change the Magic stuff.

For instance, instead of the Immortals making their Orb to defeat Evil, one of the Immortals sealed the Evil into the Orb, so he could have more power. So instead of killing the Bad Guy when they had the chance, one the Immortals tricked his brothers and ran off with twice his power.

And then the Immortals destroyed themselves over the Orb later on...

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I've been considering starting to write again. I haven't really written much beyond essays and projects for a few years now. I know once I get into it I'll have fun, but I'm struggling to start writing. I'll get there though, I s'pose.

There are actually a few ideas that have been going through my mind, if you lot want to give an opinion that'd be cool. First up is one I've toyed with for a few months... Something in the vein of the old 'Arabian Nights' stories, you know. I don't know whether I should go with a fantasy setting (Which allows me more creative influence and I won't have to do much research) or a historical setting. I think I'd rather go with the fantasy.

And the second is a first person low fantasy seen through the eyes of an aging, near retirement assassin. Haven't really though much through but perhaps it all takes place in one city. I'd have to do some good building if I go that route. I'm thinking renaissance age tech as well.

Thoughts on which one I should break my writing break with?

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I'm curious...how exstensive is everyone's worldbuilding? I'm still working on geography...

The worldbuilding part is what I really enjoy. I've spent five years now on my setting, but I'm still on the first chapters of any novel based off of it ^^

Incidentally, also begun jotting down notes for a children's book. But once again not the willpower to see it through (yet).

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So, I haven't posted here before, but what of it?

I've got a number of little projects going on for various media, though my role is the writing in all of them. When it comes to a novel, however, yes, I am a boarder and I am writing one. This idea is one I've been straining towards ever since I decided I wanted to write a book. It's a largely nautical adventure, and the this is mainly a character story by necessity. The focus is on the the master of the Blue Nautilus, Captain Dascen the White Silk. As he is the central character, necessity dictates that he be held at armslength from the reader. Originally the concept was fairly simply, Dascen's quest to discover meaning. Self-relevance. Enlightenment. Call it what you will, so long as it's an intangible, an idea, it works.

Then, I realized that this idea fit in very well with another project of mine, another one of these epic fantasy ideas, and I started considering that. In the end I decided to rework a good deal of my previous conclusions, to include some things I had not been planning on and what not. Consequently, I have very little written. The greatest hang-up in getting more seriously started is that I'm starting to get concerned that I've crafted too abstract a driving idea, to the point where I'm not even sure where to get started.

On lighter notes, there's my epic fantasy which I'll detail a bit more when I have more time, and numerous short stories I have in mind. When I get too stressed out working on these various projects, I tend to work on some project of poetry or other. And when that grows ridiculous, time to sit down with somebody else's book.

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I don't know whether I should go with a fantasy setting (Which allows me more creative influence and I won't have to do much research) or a historical setting. I think I'd rather go with the fantasy.

Actually, no.

When doing a real world setting, either historical or modern, all you need to do is study the real way people lived/live, the real geography and politics, the real architecture, so on, so forth. When writing in an SFF setting you can make everything up, sure, but if it isn't consistent with what everyone knows about the real way things work, it won't be anywhere near effective - SFF readers are perfectly willing to suspend disbelief regarding magic, FTL and so forth, but considerably less so when it comes to a mediaeval-timeframe city that isn't on a river. Example; the politics in ASOIAF works so well because it's full of the backbiting and intrigue and double-dealing in a real-world setting, yet I'll bet it took some while to construct.

If you're creating a fantasy world from whole cloth and want your book to be well-received, get ready to read up about geography, city planning, a very wide range of RL politics and a whole stack of things about the natural world you never thought you'd need to know (I had to check the effects of passive smoking on parrots at one point). As you're not writing SF you won't need to do the physics course, but most fantasy authors need a grounding in horse care and maintenance, traditional use of mediaeval weapons/armour, castle construction, theology and the history and background of feudalism. This is without the extras needed if trying to set the story in anything other than Generic Faux-Europe #290.

If this sounds negative, it isn't, really. I love the worldbuilding exercise. But there's no point pretending it isn't both longwinded and tricky.

Regarding which to write - I'd go with whichever setting's talking to you most at the time you start. And don't sweat the starting; get into your stride before starting to worry about the fridge logic necessary in getting the opening of a book right.

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Personally, I love the world building but haven't spent too much time on it. I know roughly how things work, but if you plan everything in meticulous detail, then when it comes to writing the story, it can feel like a bit of a chore because of the constraints you have set upon yourself. I can see how some people need to do this however.

There are also those that spend some much time on their world building that they never actually do much writing. For me, half the fun is writing my story and then when the need arises, thinking about the world building and fleshing it out. My nights are filled with writing before I go to bed and then the next day thinking about the world building aspects whilst I am at work.

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Actually, no.

When doing a real world setting, either historical or modern, all you need to do is study the real way people lived/live, the real geography and politics, the real architecture, so on, so forth. When writing in an SFF setting you can make everything up, sure, but if it isn't consistent with what everyone knows about the real way things work, it won't be anywhere near effective - SFF readers are perfectly willing to suspend disbelief regarding magic, FTL and so forth, but considerably less so when it comes to a mediaeval-timeframe city that isn't on a river. Example; the politics in ASOIAF works so well because it's full of the backbiting and intrigue and double-dealing in a real-world setting, yet I'll bet it took some while to construct.

Some good points there but I'd counter with there being pros and cons to both approaches.

I'm toying with a fantasy set on our earth and the thing that is bogging me down (in truth an underlying annoyance) is the geography, in that I need to know where mountains, rivers etc actually are because if I have a city on a cliff on the side of the thames someone is going to say "there aren't any cliffs on the side of the thames". If I had my own world I would have to have a grasp on why cities/communities arise in given locations but I could simply say "This castle is next to a river with a cliff at the back of it", jot it down in my world map and move on. No-one is going to say "I live on the river Hroarg and I have never seen a single cliff along it". Creating the new world is "trickier" but it's harder for people to pick out a fault in it. In other words world building is organic/creative while the real world is fixed/restrictive. The real world does allow a lot of short-cuts in setting up the story though as people should already be familiar with it ;)

The exact same thing goes for creating cultures/religions or historical events. Making it all up requires an imagination and consistency, basing it on reality requires a lot of research into multiple interpretations. I'm sure GRRM has done a lot of research into the war of the roses but I suspect it could be his interest in the War of the roses came before ASOIAF.

In truth, I very rarely check on the reality of real world scenarios (where the hell was terminator:salvation set?) but when it's "my" world, I want to be sure.

I think the take home message is that neither approach is easy and research has to be done one way or the other.

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