Boarders Writing a Novel Thread 3

[Arthmail]

Just finishing up the query letter and the synopsis. The book has been done for some time, to be honest. Going to send it out within the next few days.

[MattL86]

I'd be interested in getting a rough poll from the would be authors in this thread. Do you write a typical narrative style, first person narrative, or POV? I imagine it is heavily skewed towards POV. I'll keep a bit of a count if enough people reply.

[Zoë Sumra]

I do POV(s).

May everything continue to go well, Arthmail and Myrddin.

[Alaerien]

Moderate progress on my three ongoing projects. I rewrote the opening of my third draft urban fantasy, wrote another three chapters of my first draft young adult urban fantasy, and polished another four chapters of my second draft epic fantasy.

I'd be interested in getting a rough poll from the would be authors in this thread. Do you write a typical narrative style, first person narrative, or POV? I imagine it is heavily skewed towards POV. I'll keep a bit of a count if enough people reply.

I'm confused by your question. What's a "typical narrative style"? What do you mean by POV? Pretty much all stories are written from one or more characters' POVs - the only exception I can think of is third person omniscient, whose narrator is not actually a character.

My urban fantasy has two third-person limited POVs, my YA urban fantasy has a single first-person POV, and my epic fantasy has one third-person limited POV.

[Myrddin]

I write in third person limited.

I'm also trying to keep my number of POVs 'limited'. :)

My first book has 53 chapters divided up mainly between 3 main POVs. There are 3 one off POVs (with a chapter or half a chapter devoted to that character) and one character who has 3 chapters.

My only reason for throwing in more POVs than the main 3 was just story. There were things that happened the the main three couldn't or wouldn't know about, but needed to be shown to the reader for the story to flow.

For example, one character seems to be killed in chapter 11 but then shows up in the last third of the book. I didn't want his reappearance to be completly out of the blue, so I add a brief section from his POV in chapter 12 to show that a) he's alive, if barely, and B) he meets someone who will change his life forever. Then the other one off POV at the end of the middle section shows him from someone else's POV, though he isn't directly named as being the same guy. In the third section, he's there along, but no one but really observant reader will make the connection until the end.

Anyway. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

And thanks Eloisa! I'll be sure to post here when I start the query process. Soon, I hope.

[Prince Who Was Promised]

I'm not sure how many POVs I want. I've taken a huge break from writing (too many things going on at once), and now upon revisiting the world I was writing in, I found it too similar to some books I was reading, such as LOTR and WoT.

So I began thinking...what if I wrote something set in the future, instead of something set somewhere simialr to the past? Sort of like a futuristic LOTR? And then I called upon a faint, long buried idea. I'm not sure if I'll finish it, but it's worth a try.

I came up with some pretty (what I thought to be) interesting ideas about the "magic", the "monsters", the "gods", and the "demons". I thought I'd share some of the ideas here, and maybe get some feedback? I'm not sure how much of this has been done before...

--

The Magic: Nothing more than technology from our time, plus things we haven't made yet; electricity, holograms, lasers, phones, robots, etc. The magic of the "seers" is nothing more then veiwing feedback from still-working satellites.

--

The Monsters: The Lowmen are the men who were left deformed by nuclear radiation from the Time of Fire (a nuclear apocoplpyse thousands of years ago). They live in the eastern ruins, as well as in the ruins of America, which is known as the Old Republic.

--

The Gods: Also known as the Immortals, the "gods" are the top scientists/wizards. They've become something very similar to cyborgs, and have lived for about three-thousand years. They guard their scientific secrets carefully, and ruled from Albion (I thought you guys would recognize that name).

--

The Demons: The Demons have two definitions, the first being the "evil" conterparts to the Immortals, which want to make the "only real choice" and end life. However, some simply want to share the scientific knowledge with the rest of the world. The other definition is slightly older one: an army of Terminator-like robots, who once stood under the command of the nihilist, called the "Fallen God". The Demons were defeated about 3,500 years prior to the story.

----

The plot is pretty loose at this point. At the moment, it looks something like this:

After the defeat of the Fallen God, the Immortals established their rule across Albion, and all the Westlands (Europe). However, there was a propechy that the Demon horde would return (the prophecy only works because the robots were programmed to reawken). So for 3,000 years, the Immortals have gaurded against the coming of the Demons.

However, at the start of the story, the "demons" are starting to reactivate, and someone is tweeking with the magic flow (electric powersource) of the Golden City, where the Immortals live. Europe is on the brink of civil war, and the Lowmen from the far reaches of the Unclean Lands are moving in on the west, under the control of an unknown figure.

As the Golden City fails and the Gods begin to worry, the King of what was once Italy recieves a "prophetic dream" (though it's just the workings of a computer chip in his brain planted by the first-definition demons) naming him the Prophet of the Dragon God (a huge dragon-robot). Falling into the demons trap, he believes himself destined to bring down the Golden City by using the Hand of God (nuclear weapon) hidden in the Old Republic.

And so after learning of the evil plot, the Immortal, Ilvandrost, recruits some people (who I still need to flesh out) to go find the Hand of God while "the Prophet" wreaks havoc in the Westlands. But what they don't know is that Ilvandrost is the villan. The "good..ish" guys are playing right into his hands.

That's all I got for the moment. I'm still tweeking with it. Any feedback would help? Hopefully I'll finish this one.

[MattL86]

I'm confused by your question. What's a "typical narrative style"? What do you mean by POV? Pretty much all stories are written from one or more characters' POVs - the only exception I can think of is third person omniscient, whose narrator is not actually a character.

My urban fantasy has two third-person limited POVs, my YA urban fantasy has a single first-person POV, and my epic fantasy has one third-person limited POV.

Kay, maybe I'm not using the right terms, but generally the way I think of it:

1: by typical narrative, I mean your classic 'Once upon a time' style, like The Hobbit/LOTR, C. S. Lewis, etc. The writer is essentially telling a story, and the reader may know things the characters do not at the time.

2. First Person- Treasure Island, Name of the Wind, etc. Books told by one of the characters to the reader, in the form of "I did this, I went here". The Author essentially pretends to be a character as he tells the story, and we usually understand that the narrator knows the whole plot already.

3. The majority of fantasy these days is written from the POV of one or more characters, Martin, Aberchrombie, Sanderson,, Jordan, etc. Generally, an entire chapter is from one person's perspective, or there is a break or space between switching POV's within chapters. An exception would be Lynch, who switches POV's very loosely while writing from one character to another.

I just find it interesting how people approach there books stylewise, sort of wondered if anyone outh there was trying something a little more off the beaten path (not that there is anything wrong with typical POV writing).

[Alaerien]

1: by typical narrative, I mean your classic 'Once upon a time' style, like The Hobbit/LOTR, C. S. Lewis, etc. The writer is essentially telling a story, and the reader may know things the characters do not at the time.

2. First Person- Treasure Island, Name of the Wind, etc. Books told by one of the characters to the reader, in the form of "I did this, I went here". The Author essentially pretends to be a character as he tells the story, and we usually understand that the narrator knows the whole plot already.

3. The majority of fantasy these days is written from the POV of one or more characters, Martin, Aberchrombie, Sanderson,, Jordan, etc. Generally, an entire chapter is from one person's perspective, or there is a break or space between switching POV's within chapters. An exception would be Lynch, who switches POV's very loosely while writing from one character to another.

I see what you mean. I'm not a huge fan of anything except first or third person limited - that is, when you're in a character's head (whether first person I/me or third person he/him) you know only what that character knows. I don't like intrusive narrators, and I don't like knowing that the protagonist survives to the end. That kills the element of suspense for me. Guess I'm boring that way. :)

[Wastrel]

Hey, the narrator doesn't always survive... [alternative: he can come back from the dead, he can be a ghost, he can not be who seems to be (eg an aquaestor), he can predict what will happen, or the final sections of the book may have a different narration]

Anyway, I don't see Matt's distinction. The Lord of the Rings is written from a point of view too, with different chapters having different points of view. Narnia is even more like this.

I think it's better to see a continuum. The 'camera' can be looking at the characters, or the 'camera' can be like a best friend (stands next to the characters, knows their moods, is given information about their thoughts), the camera can look over a person's shoulder (never see anything they don't, for instance), the camera can look into their head (know all of their thoughts), the camera can see through their eyes (with no way to disentangle what they see and what they think they see), or the camera can BE them, in a first-person account.

Then there's a second continuum of how distancing the text-type is - is it a private monologue, or a diary, or a letter, or...

Then there's the additional dimension of how much contiguity of camerawork and text there is. Some stories have constantly moving cameras, or changes in type of text, while others don't.

I'd say that Martin's style is to look over the POV's shoulder and through their head, while keeping distinct from them. This POV is very direct with no suggestion of interference by the narrator. The POV is rigid within chapters but switches between chapters, but with a small number of fixed anchor characters.

----

For myself, the book I'm currently trying to write has two POVs: a first-person narrator and a through-the-eyes protagonist, with the complication that the through-the-eyes POV is narrated by the same character as the first-person. Oh, and the protagonist's sections are also via flashback, and there'll be some sections told via texts written by a third character and read by the second character. I know, I'm not making it easy for myself...

[Mad Queen]

The book I'm currently writing (intermitently) has three POVs, third person limited.

Let me ask you a question, what do you guys think about third person present tense? I used to write in past tense, but I've tried present tense and I really like it. It feels like you have more verb tenses available. But I know a lot of people hate it. Here is a sample:

They have barely started and Dan is already huffing and puffing. Soon he asks Aaron to stop and hides from the sun under a willow.

‘Let’s rest a bit,’ Aaron says. ‘We can’t push it. We don’t want you to have a heart attack, do we?’

‘It’s the sun. It’s killing me.’ Dan drinks water from a bottle and leans against the willow’s trunk. His shirt is steeping in sweat.

First draft, please don't tell me I suck at writing.

[Alaerien]

Third person present tense reads fine to me.

[Alaerien]

I'm scouting for a few people to read the first 50 pages of my epic fantasy IRONBANE. It's dark and fast-paced (I hope) with a level of violence and bad language a notch below Joe Abercrombie. You can find a synopsis here and teasers here, here, and here. Any takers? I'm particularly looking for big-picture comments: characterisation, plot, etc. No line edits necessary. :)

[Ealdorman Halasahr]

Third person limited is the answer for me, too. My largest tale includes/involves nine POV's.

[Azmure]

I'm scouting for a few people to read the first 50 pages of my epic fantasy IRONBANE. It's dark and fast-paced (I hope) with a level of violence and bad language a notch below Joe Abercrombie. You can find a synopsis here and teasers here, here, and here. Any takers? I'm particularly looking for big-picture comments: characterisation, plot, etc. No line edits necessary. :)

I'd love to give it a read. The teasers certainly capture the imagination. It's great to see so many boarders writing (and finishing) novels. I finished my own first novel late last year and I'm currently in the early stages of the querying process (daunting).

[Arthmail]

I'm scouting for a few people to read the first 50 pages of my epic fantasy IRONBANE. It's dark and fast-paced (I hope) with a level of violence and bad language a notch below Joe Abercrombie. You can find a synopsis here and teasers here, here, and here. Any takers? I'm particularly looking for big-picture comments: characterisation, plot, etc. No line edits necessary. :)

Honestly, my opinion, and what i've seen from others. Resist the temptation to send it out for others to read before its done. Hell, put it away for a month after its done and then read it all over again. Because what might happen, is endless edits and revisions. If its a finished product, i'd love to read it. But if its not, i think i would only be slowing you down.

[Alaerien]

I'd love to give it a read. The teasers certainly capture the imagination. It's great to see so many boarders writing (and finishing) novels. I finished my own first novel late last year and I'm currently in the early stages of the querying process (daunting).

Awesome! Thanks very much for volunteering. I'll send you a PM. :)

Honestly, my opinion, and what i've seen from others. Resist the temptation to send it out for others to read before its done. Hell, put it away for a month after its done and then read it all over again. Because what might happen, is endless edits and revisions. If its a finished product, i'd love to read it. But if its not, i think i would only be slowing you down.

Thanks for your comment, Arthmail. I know this is good advice for many people. IRONBANE is my fourth finished novel - I completed the first draft in November and let it sit for months before I started revisions - so I feel pretty confident that I won't suffer from serial incomplete novels syndrome. :)

[Arthmail]

Awesome! Thanks very much for volunteering. I'll send you a PM. :)

Thanks for your comment, Arthmail. I know this is good advice for many people. IRONBANE is my fourth finished novel - I completed the first draft in November and let it sit for months before I started revisions - so I feel pretty confident that I won't suffer from serial incomplete novels syndrome. :)

I'm gone for the next five weeks for work, but when i return, if you still need someone to read it, send it to me. I'll offer what help i can, as little as that might be.

[TheEvilKing]

I'm scouting for a few people to read the first 50 pages of my epic fantasy IRONBANE. It's dark and fast-paced (I hope) with a level of violence and bad language a notch below Joe Abercrombie. You can find a synopsis here and teasers here, here, and here. Any takers? I'm particularly looking for big-picture comments: characterisation, plot, etc. No line edits necessary. :)

Alien, I will throw my hat in - Ironbane looks very cool. I formally submit my request to read it.

[Wastrel]

I'm scouting for a few people to read the first 50 pages of my epic fantasy IRONBANE. It's dark and fast-paced (I hope) with a level of violence and bad language a notch below Joe Abercrombie. You can find a synopsis here and teasers here, here, and here. Any takers? I'm particularly looking for big-picture comments: characterisation, plot, etc. No line edits necessary. :)

I'd love to!

I probably won't like it, and even if I do, it'll sound as though I don't like it, because I'm a lot better at criticising than praising. But it'll be good for me - either I'll think it's terrible, and thus feel smugly better in my own mediocrity, or I'll think it's not terrible, and thus feel confident in the ability of Ordinary Real People Who Exist like us to actually write non-terrible books.

[i also confess to a more specific hypothetical self-interest for the future - but don't worry, nothing of mine will be at the asking-for-opinions stage for quite some time. I may theoretically have written over 100k words, but I'm actually still on chapter one. (hopefully many of those words will be re-incorporated later, but we'll have to see about that).]

OK, now I'm rambling. But yeah, love to read it. I mean, if it's only 50 pages and you don't want line-edits*, it won't take any time.

*I'm glad you said that. Either I give no line-edits, or I get into obsessive line-by-line mode and go through the entire thing word-by-word, which is kind of time consuming.

[Zoë Sumra]

Add me to the list too. :)