Boarders Writing a Novel Thread 3

[Derfel Cadarn]

Derfel, if bodysnatching was quite rare at that stage, how are you justifying your protagonists' profession? It seems quite an interesting conundrum from this angle... but the bodysnatcher pinching a vampire idea is priceless.

My solution is that a senior medical professor at the university wants to examine corpses of people who've died of rare or specific things, in part for his own interest but mainly to show his 'favoured' students. The body recovered in the prologue was a rich merchant who died of extreme old age. In a time where people died young of illesses and malnutrition, the professor is eager to examine the corpse and the state of internal organs. So he tasks the two bodysnatchers to 'recover' it for him. He's basically paying them to recover specific bodies who've died of something not common to the usual unclaimed bodies and executed criminals the medical colleges got sent.

[paddington]

I think it's great that so many of you seem to be able to get words on paper. I got one idea I can't seem to shake, although I am not sure if its a decent one to begin with. Which sort of blocks me from committing time to it.

It involves a bank robbery that goes, or seems to go horribly wrong. The robbers take the wife of a bank manager/security managers hostage, then proceed to empty the bank's vault of money. However the wife is actually a high class escort, which during the course of events gets killed, her diver gets shot during this as well.

The whole thing boils down to the bankers wife wanting the husband and the escort killed, and a big pile of money. So behind the scenes she's passing the identities and location of the robbers to the driver, who’s out for revenge. Whilst ensuring the copper leading the investigation is controlled as well.

So I am thinking 3 PoV's. The first the driver, he's not killed just disfigured an the resulting brain injury leaves him unable to smell anything but burning hair and lacking in empathy.

The second would be the lead robber, who's having an affair with the bankers real wife, an knows the full outline of the plan.

The third would be the corrupt police officer who’s also having an affair with the bankers real wife. He knows about the robbery but is unaware of the assassination.

Anyways good site, an great Literature section. Oh an I really like the body-snatchers idea Derfel.

[awesome possum]

I need to start working on my novel/series again. It's been gestating in my head for almost fifteen years now, but I wrote myself into a corner. I have the entire story plotted out and outlined in my head, but while writing I let the story take control and ended up writing myself into a corner and creating an entirely new subplot that has turned into a huge roadblock.

I know the best route would be to just delete that section and continue where I was, but it's so interesting! I've never been very good a the "kill your darlings" line of advice. I think it's a good subplot and helps to expand the world and history, but at the same time it's thrown the entire story off the tracks and I haven't written a single word of it in two years (decided to work on other projects as well).

It just figures, too. This book has been the bane of my existence. The first draft was hand-written when I was sixteen and was about thirty pages. Very sloppy. The second draft was better, typed and single-spaced it came to seventy-five pages. The third draft, which I started shortly after high school and spent a year and a half on, was nearly finished at 110k words when disaster struck. The computer I was writing it on crashed, and my backup copies on floppy discs (just months before the commercial release of USB flash drives!) were similarly erased (my own stupid fault there, in a fit of angsty depression I carelessly tossed them into a box that contained several magnets; don't think I can ever forgive myself for that). I went from almost having a completed novel to having nothing at all but the first two drafts. It sucked, to say the least. It was almost three years before I could bring myself to write something not required for a college course, and another two before I could start on the story yet again.

I'm at 60k words now, have been for two years, but my mind keeps wandering back to it recently, which I hope is a good sign. This thread has helped a lot to, and I thank everyone who participates! I know there are tons of other writers out there (I work at a self-publishing company after all!) but it's nice to read about the progress and struggles and successes of others, and it has provided a surprising amount of inspiration.

Jodi Meadows used to be a slush reader for a literary agent and now has a "Query Project" where she critiques two queries a week. I think she low on people submitting to her, so if you emailed her now, you could get reviewed in a week or so.

Like I mentioned a few pages back, she critiqued minea few weeks ago. Very helpful. Instructions to submit in the second link.

Even if you don't submit, read through her posts tagged "query project" to get an idea how an agent read queries.

Query Shark is also a good one for this. She can be brutal, but also very insightful.

the entire climax of The Name of the Wind (spoilery bullshit)

Thanks for the spoiler warning! Here's a small clue - not everyone has read what you have. Please be more considerate.

[Ealdorman Halasahr]

I think it's great that so many of you seem to be able to get words on paper. I got one idea I can't seem to shake, although I am not sure if its a decent one to begin with. Which sort of blocks me from committing time to it.

....

Anyways good site, an great Literature section. Oh an I really like the body-snatchers idea Derfel.

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Welcome to the board, paddington.

Yes, it's a nice site, isn't it?

Are you writing anything yourself?

I've been writing my long, long story forever now, it seems. Hopefully I can send my manuscript to a publisher this month, which feels great. I've a summary to write first, though, and a few other things.

[Starkess]

I'm at 60k words now, have been for two years, but my mind keeps wandering back to it recently, which I hope is a good sign. This thread has helped a lot to, and I thank everyone who participates! I know there are tons of other writers out there (I work at a self-publishing company after all!) but it's nice to read about the progress and struggles and successes of others, and it has provided a surprising amount of inspiration.

I know somewhat of your pain, having lost a couple drafts and also started on subplots that I couldn't finish. I think the mind wandering back is a great sign. It started to happen to me a couple months ago, and I've been able to WRITE for the first time in years.

Of course, I didn't write yesterday, duty section stuff ended up taking longer than expected. I'm taking leave from work next week, though, so I should definitely not have any excuses for not getting a nice chunk of writing done!

[MattL86]

Thanks for the spoiler warning! Here's a small clue - not everyone has read what you have. Please be more considerate.

It umm, is on the back of the cover I think. Hardly a spoiler. Sorry if I spoiled something for you, but hey you're probably right. I'll edit it out.

[Jerol]

God help me. I have an idea for a Harry Potter story in my head and it wants to get out. Dudley Dursley's kid turns out to take after the magic side of the family and he turns to his cousin for help. After dropping off the kids on the Hogwart's Express they go to the bar and end up in a conversation with Draco Malfoy. Jesus I hate myself.

[paddington]

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Welcome to the board, paddington.

Yes, it's a nice site, isn't it?

Are you writing anything yourself?

I try, but I just seem unable. I have quite a few plans/ideas, just can't seem to commit the time, or stay on track to produce something

[Zoë Sumra]

I try, but I just seem unable. I have quite a few plans/ideas, just can't seem to commit the time, or stay on track to produce something

As I discovered when I started working, the key is to make time. At the moment I do something to my book every day, either writing, editing or planning, unless either I'm ill or I've just finished a draft - I always take a few days' break after finishing a draft to let it settle; in these circumstances I'll try to find something else to write or poke at. The key is consistency, no matter what else you have to do at the same time. (There was some fuss made recently about some bloke whose first book, recently published, was written on his Blackberry on the way to and from work.)

[Alaerien]

I try, but I just seem unable. I have quite a few plans/ideas, just can't seem to commit the time, or stay on track to produce something

Perhaps small regular goals would work for you. 250 little words is only half an hour's work, even for slow writers like me, and it makes up a whole page. Ten days and you have a whole chapter. Things gain their own momentum. You just have to start the wheels rolling. :)

[paddington]

Yeah I know the 250 words a day is very achievable. I've been trying to write short stories, just to see if i can get something rolling, an just end up re-reading and feeling unsatisified with them and deleting.

Could also be that I try not to write SF/fantasy because thats pretty much all I do read, so tend to feel that my concepts, could be more what i've read an mostly forgoten in the past, an not truly my own.

[Zoë Sumra]

No one's concepts are ever truly their own. Alaerien said up-thread that her (excellent) WIP started out as fanfic, and yet it read to me as, pun intended, thoroughly novel; that's merely an extreme end of a scale of borrowing other people's ideas and running with them. (I once embarrassed Richard Morgan by mentioning at an author Q&A session that I thought he'd pulled off "his own" concepts in Altered Carbon much better than the ones he'd riffed straight from William Gibson.) Even if you think your concepts are your own, they're likely influenced by all the things you've read and seen - we're all SFF readers here and can't help but be influenced by our genre. This is no barrier to publication. Think of all the sword-and-sorcery epics that exist, or the more recent darker fantasies written as a reaction to those epics; it all starts from the same place.

I hate writing short stories with the passion of a thousand fiery suns, but they're good for strengthening a writer's economy of language. That's pretty much all they're good for, if you want to write novels, because it's impossible to learn how to build the optimum structure of a novel by writing short stories. The only way to learn to write novels is by writing novels. I've been doing it, as I mentioned up-thread, for seventeen years, and I've finally got the hang of it over the past two or three years.

[Starkess]

I hate writing short stories with the passion of a thousand fiery suns, but they're good for strengthening a writer's economy of language. That's pretty much all they're good for, if you want to write novels, because it's impossible to learn how to build the optimum structure of a novel by writing short stories. The only way to learn to write novels is by writing novels. I've been doing it, as I mentioned up-thread, for seventeen years, and I've finally got the hang of it over the past two or three years.

Oh, I agree. I hate writing short stories. I find that they usually depend on plot, and plot is definitely my weakest area. I'm much more interested in worldbuilding and characters. Every short story I have ever written seems pointless and incomplete to me. I don't really enjoy reading them, either.

[Durckad]

I'm still working on my novel, which is at about 20K words right now, the most I've ever achieved in any of my projects. The novel is set in a fantasy world that is about to enter the equivalent of WWI. It currently consists of two primary PoV's; a down-and-out junkie and the puppet regent of an occupied country, although as the action starts to rise I plan on incorporating a few more PoV's, a third important character and a few incidental ones.

I'm pretty proud of it so far, even if half of it might need to junked or rewritten later on. I've found that I work best when I just keep on going, even if a certain section screams out 'Rewrite/Replot me!' I can always get back to it later and fix it then.

I have hit a pair of annoying roadblocks recently. One involves a fevered-dream sequence which, no matter how I write it, feels like schlocky crap. It's bad enough that I just can't seem to move past it, though I did think up an interesting approach to it at work today. I'll have to try it out when I get home tonight.

Another involves a meeting between a bunch of politicians and it just feels like a bunch of talking heads blabbing about important things going on in the book. Blah. It feels like an important scene, but I might have to junk the concept and try to introduce the characters in it elsewhere.

Oh well, the joy of the wanna-be writer.

[Myrddin]

I remember Patrick Rothfuss talking about this once. Apparently, the entire climax of The Name of the Wind was added to the story in a rewrite. After chopping the book into a trilogy, the pacing to the first book just didn't work, so he wrote in a climax. Hard to imagine the book without those chapters now.

Actually, the ending felt obviously tacked on to me. It wasn't until I finished that I read he wrote that ending after the fact. It was a big jump from his normal life and then setting out like that to have his climaxti adventure. (Which read well, and all. It just felt like the ending to a different book)

I'm working to smooth out my own ending now. An influx of paying freelance work (yay!) has kept me busy and away from my novel (boo...). I couldn't figure out why the climax to one POV felt forced. In reviewing the lead up chapters, I realized the set-up was off, not the climax. I smoothed out and simplified the stated goal for the end and then left the climax mostly as it was, ie more stuff happens than the heroes bargined for. :)

Reading these posts has got me reving to finish my freelance work today so I can work this weekend. :thumbsup:

[SerNotAppearingOnThisBoard]

I remember Patrick Rothfuss talking about this once. Apparently, the entire climax of The Name of the Wind was added to the story in a rewrite. After chopping the book into a trilogy, the pacing to the first book just didn't work, so he wrote in a climax. Hard to imagine the book without those chapters now.

Also, to add to the word count thing, I wouldn't use The Blade Itself, Lies of Locke Lamora, or Name of the Wind as examples to follow. The Blade Itself is around 190k, but published in the UK where they are less strict on Word count it seems. Plus, the book is awesome and totally different from what's out there. Rothfuss tried to get The Name of the Wind published for over a decade before someone gave it a shot. Lies of Locke Lamora is right around the same size as The Blade Itself, but again, it's very original and fantastically written. Unless you are sure you're that good (which I'm not personally) I would stick to aiming for 120k max.

I'm dealing with this myself. 140K words and just approaching what I see as the halfway point. After reading some of the word count talk here and on other sites, this is just too long, so I'm doing a major rewrite of a few parts. Hopefully I can lose 20-30K words on what I have so far, split it at the halfway mark and call it a duology. I really didn't want to have to do that, but I've heard that current trends seem to be toward brevity.

Is it just me, or does 100K words just not seem like that much? Maybe reading long books like ASOIAF has ruined me into thinking that 500-600 pages is perfectly normal for a fantasy novel. :(

[Ebenstone]

Is it just me, or does 100K words just not seem like that much? Maybe reading long books like ASOIAF has ruined me into thinking that 500-600 pages is perfectly normal for a fantasy novel. :(

For all the conversation about word counts that we are having, there really is no tried and true, written in stone rule for word counts. It's about quality writing. And about the query process. You've got to remember that agents & editors are not all that different from you and I...if you can't "hook" them with your story then they won't read...whether it's 80k or 300k.

Just remember, it's all about QUALITY not QUANTITY.

[kuenjato]

For all the conversation about word counts that we are having, there really is no tried and true, written in stone rule for word counts. It's about quality writing. And about the query process. You've got to remember that agents & editors are not all that different from you and I...if you can't "hook" them with your story then they won't read...whether it's 80k or 300k.

Just remember, it's all about QUALITY not QUANTITY.

True enough. The agent blog up above, while interesting, seemed disingenious to some degree. Sorry, but many of those fantasy doorstoppers one sees ARE above 150k -- in fact, many are above 200k. Something like The Judging Eye could be considered slim for fantasy and it's still above 120k (the first two prince of nothing books are even larger).

The dictate of the bean counters at major publishing houses has definately made a sea-change overall in the last ten-fifteen years (the price of paper and declining overall sales has much to do with this), but if your book is absolutely incredible, someone will take notice, even if the WC is in the high digits. 'course, the work is in getting to that absolutely incredible stage in the first place...

[Zoë Sumra]

At the frustrating stage of rewriting/reconstructing where I currently have half a book (about two thirds of the original first half of my original book, or about 60,000 words) sitting in the new book's Word document, plus lots of gaps for all the content that still needs revising or rewriting or, in a couple of places, adding from scratch to replace old scenes or contribute to the new rhythm/climax. Head exploding. Want to break things. Have no time to either break things or work on book. gaaah.

[Myrddin]

At the frustrating stage of rewriting/reconstructing where I currently have half a book (about two thirds of the original first half of my original book, or about 60,000 words) sitting in the new book's Word document, plus lots of gaps for all the content that still needs revising or rewriting or, in a couple of places, adding from scratch to replace old scenes or contribute to the new rhythm/climax. Head exploding. Want to break things. Have no time to either break things or work on book. gaaah.

/hugs

I know that's a tough place to be...

Do you have a revised outline to give you a high-level view of what this new version would look like? THat might help you organize what needs to be added and where. And is easier to work on in short bursts when you lack the time or energy to realy dive in.