Boarders Writing a Novel Thread 3

[Zoë Sumra]

:grouphug: back.

Do you have a revised outline to give you a high-level view of what this new version would look like?

Yes - I'm fairly sure I would be all the way past boiling point to stellar temperatures without it. I'm also showing the flexibility not to stick to the outline when I've realised it's wrong and needs changing.

One problem is that I hadn't drafted anything totally new for eight or nine months until yesterday and I'd forgotten how (had been embedded in editing); that's mainly a mental issue, but it was giving me trouble, as is, psychologically, the fact that I know what I wrote yesterday was crap because I hadn't written anything for nine months and I'm going to have to do it again (or at least make substantial linguistic changes when I type it up). Right now I'm caught up on little continuity problems, such as what to do with half a battleship I've got lying around in one existing scene (and leaving it where it is is not an option), largely because the energy issue is stopping me thinking straight. The bit I drafted yesterday was the book's new coda/finale; the rest of what I have to redraft is basically re-winding-up one entire subplot, which is going to be a lot more work.

[Alaerien]

Can I join the :grouphug:? Best of luck with the revisions, Eloisa. Being half-revised is so frustrating.

Stuck doing coursework right now when I'd rather be writing. Glum.

[SerNotAppearingOnThisBoard]

At the frustrating stage of rewriting/reconstructing where I currently have half a book (about two thirds of the original first half of my original book, or about 60,000 words) sitting in the new book's Word document, plus lots of gaps for all the content that still needs revising or rewriting or, in a couple of places, adding from scratch to replace old scenes or contribute to the new rhythm/climax. Head exploding. Want to break things. Have no time to either break things or work on book. gaaah.

Good luck with that. I just whittled two chapters (37 pages, 14000 words) down to one (21 pages, 7500 words). I really hated doing it, but my work's much better for it. More rewrites coming up. There's hope! :)

[The Evil Hat]

I've had absolutely no confidence with novels recently. Back in November, I was doing great with Dead Nature (which I may have summarized in the last one of these, though I don't remember), and I got to 70k by mid December (which was about a third of the way done, so a bit long, but whatever). And then, what always happens happened: I looked back and it realized that it was all cliched shit. All confidence vanished; the novel crashed and burned a few days later. Since then, I've done a few stories, but no novels. I want to get back to them; I've got two somewhat decent ideas. But I know what's going to happen. Once I've been going for a while, I'll look back and, no matter how good the ideas seemed a week ago, they'll all look either weak or derivative. Then the story will die. I suppose there's no obvious answer anyone can give me, but do any of you have any advice on not losing all faith in your work right as its hitting its stride?

EDIT: Good luck Elosia. I just want to say that everything I've read of your story (which is probably all revised by now, but what the hell) was excellent, and that I'm looking forward to it getting published so that I can continue.

[TheEvilKing]

Haven't written for about six months. I've been looking at some of my old ideas recently, considering which one to pick back up. I've pretty much narrowed it down to two.

[Alaerien]

Somebody I know just sold her debut trilogy in a "major" deal, which in the terminology of Publishers' Marketplace is over half a million dollars. Holy. Shit.

[Zoë Sumra]

:stunned:

[Ebenstone]

Somebody I know just sold her debut trilogy in a "major" deal, which in the terminology of Publishers' Marketplace is over half a million dollars. Holy. Shit.

Good for them!

Hopefully you'll know 2 people soon.

[SerNotAppearingOnThisBoard]

Somebody I know just sold her debut trilogy in a "major" deal, which in the terminology of Publishers' Marketplace is over half a million dollars. Holy. Shit.

Holy shit indeed. :stunned: Does it seem like publishers are more willing to take monetary chances with debut fantasy authors than debut "other" authors? I know a fair few published authors, but none of them are fantasy, and none of them received a $500,000 deal on their debuts.

[Alaerien]

Holy shit indeed. :stunned: Does it seem like publishers are more willing to take monetary chances with debut fantasy authors than debut "other" authors? I know a fair few published authors, but none of them are fantasy, and none of them received a $500,000 deal on their debuts.

YA SF&F is very hot right now - that's where the money is. The trilogy I mentioned is YA dystopian. A friend of mine also sold her debut YA urban fantasy trilogy for six figures recently. Meanwhile epic fantasy for adults is a (comparatively) dead genre, a fact which makes me a trifle unhappy. :P

[SerNotAppearingOnThisBoard]

YA SF&F is very hot right now - that's where the money is. The trilogy I mentioned is YA dystopian. A friend of mine also sold her debut YA urban fantasy trilogy for six figures recently. Meanwhile epic fantasy for adults is a (comparatively) dead genre, a fact which makes me a trifle unhappy. :P

Interesting, considering that the boundaries between YA and adult fiction can be very loosely defined. A well-written YA book and a well-written adult book should both have a sense of crossover appeal between the age groups. IMO, at least. But, yeah, I'm a little pissed annoyed as well that epic fantasy for adults is rather dead at the moment, Hopefully, that will change. :P

[Ebenstone]

YA SF&F is very hot right now - that's where the money is. The trilogy I mentioned is YA dystopian. A friend of mine also sold her debut YA urban fantasy trilogy for six figures recently. Meanwhile epic fantasy for adults is a (comparatively) dead genre, a fact which makes me a trifle unhappy. :P

Love ya, kid, but you can be such a downer dear.

Every year I keep hearing that epic fantasy is dead...yet every year there seems to be a new wave of writers that release "new" epic fantasy to the world....this year alone, scarely 4 months old has had new names like Blake Charlton, Ari Marmell and NK Jemisin to name a few.

Write what you write...don't worry about what's "dead" and all about categories. Let someone in "marketing" worry about it. If a story's good, people will want to read it. Dystopian is hot right now because of Suzanne Collins "Hunger Games" and the "Ember" series...both well written.

I identify "Winter's Discord" as YA epic fantasy but I'll let someone else sort that out when I get that far. If publisher wants to market it as adult so be it.

I'll say it again for emphasis...WRITE WHAT YOU WRITE. Don't worry about "trends."

[Myrddin]

I'll say it again for emphasis...WRITE WHAT YOU WRITE. Don't worry about "trends."

But my hot YA romance about a sparkly zombie who falls in love with a mummy is almost finished!!!

:P

Adult epic fantasy is just waiting for the next Robert Jordan to come along. If Rothfuss will get his second bok out, he could be it. Or Sanderson will hit it big(ger) with his upcoming fantasy epic. Or lightning will strike and my book will get picked up. :D

Hey, I can dream, right? :hat:

[Alaerien]

Love ya, kid, but you can be such a downer dear.

Every year I keep hearing that epic fantasy is dead...yet every year there seems to be a new wave of writers that release "new" epic fantasy to the world....this year alone, scarely 4 months old has had new names like Blake Charlton, Ari Marmell and NK Jemisin to name a few.

Write what you write...don't worry about what's "dead" and all about categories. Let someone in "marketing" worry about it. If a story's good, people will want to read it. Dystopian is hot right now because of Suzanne Collins "Hunger Games" and the "Ember" series...both well written.

I identify "Winter's Discord" as YA epic fantasy but I'll let someone else sort that out when I get that far. If publisher wants to market it as adult so be it.

I'll say it again for emphasis...WRITE WHAT YOU WRITE. Don't worry about "trends."

I'm not sure I see the problem. SerNotAppearing asked specifically about the market, and I gave him my best understanding. When I look down the list of Publishers' Marketplace deals, I see a ton of non-fiction, a lot of YA and a few paranormal romances, with adult SF&F featuring very rarely. My friends are selling YA almost exclusively. The big deals I hear about are YA. That's the truth as I see it.

My personal philosophy is that you can write whatever you like for yourself, but if you want to sell to the market, you need to study it. That goes double for anyone who might want to (fingers crossed) get onto a masters in publishing program. So you write what you write, and I'll study the market. :)

[Starkess]

I try so hard not to even think about marketing and what will sell. I have to finish writing the damn thing first!

[Myrddin]

I'm not sure I see the problem. SerNotAppearing asked specifically about the market, and I gave him my best understanding. When I look down the list of Publishers' Marketplace deals, I see a ton of non-fiction, a lot of YA and a few paranormal romances, with adult SF&F featuring very rarely. My friends are selling YA almost exclusively. The big deals I hear about are YA. That's the truth as I see it.

My personal philosophy is that you can write whatever you like for yourself, but if you want to sell to the market, you need to study it. That goes double for anyone who might want to (fingers crossed) get onto a masters in publishing program. So you write what you write, and I'll study the market. :)

Eben's point is if you chase the market, you'll always be ten steps behind. What's in the stores now was aquired 2 or 3 years ago anddoesn't reflect what editors are buying now.

If you write what you want to write, you'll be better off than trying to write something that's hot right now.

Yes, you should research the market to make sure what you're writing is publishable, but don't chase the newest trend.

[Ebenstone]

Researching markets is one of the last steps in the process. As Starkess said, finish the damn thing first.

I think the reason for the "slow down" in adult epic fantasy is that standards have been raised. There's only so many Tolkein clones, farmboy saviors or twin-sword wielding dark elves that can go around.

Young adult/middle grade is hot right now because first, thanks to Harry Potter, it's okay for adults to read kids books. Plus, and I don't remember where I read this, a parent will be more likely to spend money buying a book for their kids as opposed to a book for themselves.

But I go back to it...the real key isn't what genre you write...it's how well you write it. If you write a really, really good epic fantasy, someone will buy it.

It's all a crap shoot anyway. Sometimes is a matter of taste. As many agents have told me in their rejections, nothing wrong with the writing, it's just not for them.

[ErikConrad]

Hmmm, a 500k debut deal! Is that even wise, for the author I mean? Sure she gets cash right now, but if the books fail to deliver it's the publisher thats going to take the losses - which means she might have a hard time finding another publisher for future work...

And of course you have to know the market to some extent. But you won't get any writing done studying the market 24/7... Balance!

[Ahimsa]

I just got my first novel published (mosaic, with two other authors). It's with a small press and might not be in every bookstore, but it will be available via Amazon etc. The advance is, well, let's just say it's not anywhere near a half-million. They say it's harder to get a book published than to write it, but the hardest step of all might be marketing. There's definitely more work to be done than I have done so far, but at least it won't involve collecting any more rejection letters.

[Alaerien]

Eben's point is if you chase the market, you'll always be ten steps behind. What's in the stores now was aquired 2 or 3 years ago anddoesn't reflect what editors are buying now.

If you write what you want to write, you'll be better off than trying to write something that's hot right now.

Yes, you should research the market to make sure what you're writing is publishable, but don't chase the newest trend.

I feel like you're arguing with something I never actually said. :uhoh: In fact your bolded point is pretty much what I said in the first place, which is study the market.

Know industry standards for the genre. Read recently-released and award-winning books in the genre. Maintain a list of agents to target, and follow them to see what they have to say. Know the publishers. Have an impression of what deals are going down in the genre. Follow public contests and critiques. Read Publishers Weekly. Subscribe to Publishers Lunch. Have realistic expectations.

I'm surprised that so many people seem to think industry awareness is a bad thing. The market is not an enemy, even if my genre (one of them) isn't selling, but an opportunity. I want to sell to this market, not some perfect future market in which epic fantasy is a runaway bandwagon of million-dollar deals. Industry trends are extremely relevant to my prospects of selling, and I'm not going to ignore them.

(I also want to go to a hypothetical interview for a masters in publishing armed with information. I hear they like it when people show some interest. :P)