The "new" definition of Racism or

[Tempra]

Oh my, I might have to think first, then talk. This is such a burden.

This isn't the problem. The problem is when individuals take words and phrases and declare them racist because they don't like what the person says. I'm sure I don't need to remind anyone here about David Howard who was forced to resign becuase he had the audacity to use the word niggardly- a word with NO connection to the N word.

[SwordoftheMorning]

Sword, You and Glen Beck are in the same category. People who make allegations of racism at the drop of a hat without any evidence other then 'That person is another race and they are doing something I do not expect/approve of.â€

I mean you just said people like Stego want to return America to the lynch mob era because he pointed out that you commonly attack people as racists simply for disagreeing with you. Thats actually what this whole thread is about, Stego disagrees with you, thus he is a racist who secretly wants to return America to a time where you can be lynched without penalty.

People who think there should be some evidence of racism before an allegation of racism is leveled are not automatically racists who want to see you lynched.

As for Glen Beck, he is an empty uniform. If he isn't secretly ripping off Stephen Colbert then he needs to be sterilized for the good of Mankind.

More attacks for having the temerity to discuss race and the fact that racism is real and actually happens, actually affects people in their day to day life. The best you can do is unspecific claims about "seeing racism at the drop of a hat". What a crock. Your incomplete and incorrect assertions are just the re-workings of figments of your imagination. U remember the things you want to remember the way u prefer to remember them. Fine, don't offer that as "proof" of what I am in any degree.

I clearly mentioned the quote I used from what Stego said and how similar it is to what Beck said. The REST of my post, I also clearly reference Beck and people like him. Whatever hangups and misconceptions you have don't change that.

People who think there should be some evidence of racism before an allegation of racism is leveled are not automatically racists who want to see you lynched.

Didnt say that, To me, the greatest, most overwhelming proof is that which is consistently denied by those who would rather not see racism for what it. The historical trends patterns and data. Just this week, The Illinois State police released there traffic stop study which clearly shows that many more Black drivers are stopped and subjegated to "constent searches", even tho the data has shown for 7 straight years, more contraband is discovered in the cars of White drivers stopped for those same searches.

Now, can any ONE Black driver PROVE that the cop stopping him was doing so because he/she is Black ? nope. But 7 years of data don't lie does it ?

My issue is with one, the Glenn Beck types that attempt to smear anyone mentioning race as a racist. And also, the willful ignorance of so many who act like each and every incident is a stand alone occurance when the very history of this nation PROVES otherwise.

[Ser Doctor]

This isn't the problem. The problem is when individuals take words and phrases and declare them racist because they don't like what the person says. I'm sure I don't need to remind anyone here about David Howard who was forced to resign becuase he had the audacity to use the word niggardly- a word with NO connection to the N word.

Man, Tempra, you are such a black-hole.

I think that has more to do with stupidity, than the race problem in the US.

The only reason this incident became famouse was because of its absurdity, rather than what it said was common or frequent.

A few strange examples don't make the point however.

For instance, I remember watching an odd special on tv a while ago, about how the grand dragon of the KKK has a black friend. Now just because this oddball has a black friend does not mean that racism in america is over.

[Tempra]

Yeah, because that was an exhausitive fucking list or meant as the be all and end all of examples.

[DanteGabriel]

Yeah, because that was an exhausitive fucking list or meant as the be all and end all of examples.

About as exhaustive as your list of one guy getting into trouble for saying "niggardly". Usually you aren't this obtuse.

Well, no, that's not strictly accurate. But see, I was mirroring a statement.

Come on, Tempra. Tell us of the times you were accused of racism in your daily life for an innocent remark. Like you asked Sword to do in support of his own statements on race. Avoid the double standard.

[Ser Doctor]

I'm glad you think so. I have similiar sentiments about your own.

I think Tempra is outmatched here. It is unfair that so many are arguing against him, with few, if any, with him.

I think either sword or Dante should switch sides on this debate in the spirit of being fair. (I think it would also be funny, and impressive if either of you can argue his side effectively, as you are his biggest detractors).

Or perhaps I will just drop out of this thread, and reappear in another random topic a month or so from now.

toodles

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

occasionally, I've had people throw things at me from their car windows, such as lit ciggarettes, slurpies, and big gulps. (I suspect race had something to do with some of those, although it is possible that these people were simply jerks, rather than racists).

This has happened to me many times. I think it's an issue of people being dicks more that racism. (I am part cherokee, but not enough that I look the part). Dicks in cars know that you can't do anything to them while walking. I almost got killed when someone threw a glass bottle at me.

[turinturambar]

Barack Obama was raised by his white mother and grandparents after his black father left them.

Of course he hates white people. Look at this picture. And this one. You can practically see the Rage Against Whitey boiling up in his eyes.

Glenn Beck needs to be caned on camera and maybe pilloried on the Capitol Mall until the stupid gets slapped out of him. The question is, is Beck really this big a moron, or does he just say moronic and inflammatory things to justify his festering wasteland of a TV show?

And let's make no mistake: racism isn't just lynchings and burning crosses and guys in white hoods. It comes up in a lot more subtle and insidious ways, every day, everywhere.

1st, nobody should take Glenn Beck serious. The guy is an idiot.

2nd, why should he be fired? Are we not allowed to criticize our president? It's an opinion piece, he's giving his opinion, even if it's an ill-advised opinion.

3rd, calling Glenn Beck a racist is just as ridiculous as calling Sword a racist. Stego claims Sword is showing racist tendencies because Sword claims racism in a situation that doesn't really display racism or motivation for racism. He simply put his opinion on the officer as being a racist because that's what he feels were the motives. Glenn Beck is doing the same thing. If Glenn is a racist, Sword is a racist, which would make Stego a racist. We don't know if any of the three are racist, so why throw around such accusations? Especially demanding somebody be fired? Seems a bit harsh that somebody could lose their job for criticizing the president.

[Ser Doctor]

This has happened to me many times. I think it's an issue of people being dicks more that racism. (I am part cherokee, but not enough that I look the part). Dicks in cars know that you can't do anything to them while walking. I almost got killed when someone threw a glass bottle at me.

I kind of suspect the same, but in my experience it has seemed as if I have been the one singled out, as opposed to some other smo who is walking a certain distance ahead or behind me.

I know for certain when they scream something like 'beaner'.

I'll be the first to admit that a lot of it can just be bad luck.

[SwordoftheMorning]

I'm glad you think so. I have similiar sentiments about your own.

I think Tempra is outmatched here. It is unfair that so many are arguing against him, with few, if any, with him.

I think either sword or Dante should switch sides on this debate in the spirit of being fair. (I think it would also be funny, and impressive if either of you can argue his side effectively, as you are his biggest detractors).

lol ... just for the love of a good debate, I prolly should. LOL (kidding, I'd prolly get myself banned.)

And Tergum, I've been dating a Native woman (Cree) for the past year and a half. The issues of dealing with racism from her and her families viewpoints has been further illuminating. She is Canadian and the history of what happened to her people at the hands of that government are pretty heart wrenching. Like her family losing its connection to their native language do to her dad being placed in the "white school" and beaten as a boy if he spoke Cree. She said he refused to speak it fo the rest of his life. She teaches on Native reserves in Canada, and the harshness of that life shocks me when I hear about it. But what I have read from Canadian newspapers and websites is about how "good" the natives have it, etc. etc. Much like the bruhaha over AA here. It does make me shake my head....

[Meili]

Wether conciously or sub, her alarms went off on seeing this Black guy coming into the bookstore. Since this raised my flags, I watched her more than I perused the books for a lil while and there was not a single other customer who came into the store who got the special "reach out and touch" welcome as they came into the store. Of course, in the 30 mins or so I was there, no other Black men came in either.

It seems you only look at life through race tinted glasses. Everywhere you go are your 'race flags' just ready to pop out at a moments notice, even to the point where you have the ability to read the subconcious of other people? If someone's subconcious can be read so easily, yours screams loudly of bigotry and prejudice. You go out of your way "daily" to try so hard to interpret the slightest action as a prejudice act against you and even go as far as pretending you speak for countless "others you don't know" and the racism they experience. Shit, you can't even sit in a bookstore without counting and watching for other black people to come in the store. A woman walks up to you and you go out of your way to 'investigate' if she talks to others. Maybe you looked clueless or maybe she thought you were cute, OR maybe she was doing her fucking job. You must be the worlds only telepath to have this mind reading ability of yours. Yeah race sometimes plays a factor. But it goes both ways Sword and when you pretend it doesn't it just makes you as much of a bigot as the people you rail against.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Seems a bit harsh that somebody could lose their job for criticizing the president.

I encourage robust criticism of all political figures.

Glen Back should lose his job because he sucks at it, adds nothing to the debate, generally introduces yet more stupid to the airwaves, and gives actual libertarians a bad name by claiming the label.

[DanteGabriel]

2nd, why should he be fired? Are we not allowed to criticize our president? It's an opinion piece, he's giving his opinion, even if it's an ill-advised opinion.

If you think I'm advocating Beck's firing, no, not at all. I said he should be "caned", not "canned". Publicly whipped with a rattan stick in his soft flabby grandstanding ass. He can keep his job. But he needs to be publicly humiliated for the jackass he is.

[IheartTesla]

Glenn Beck is an idiot and nothing he says merits much of a response except mocking laughter.

I believe Obama self identifies as an African American and that is good enough for me. That he hates white culture or whatever hyperbolic BS Beck chooses to throw out is ridiculous. A more interesting question to me is why Obama chose such a self-identification, though he has about 50% 'white' heritage. I suspect his experiences are shaded by the fact that he looks more like his father and is perceived that way by others. If he resembled his mother in skin tone and features he might easily have self-identified differently.

You must be the worlds only telepath to have this mind reading ability of yours.

It's a black thing, you wouldnt understand.

[turinturambar]

If you think I'm advocating Beck's firing, no, not at all. I said he should be "caned", not "canned". Publicly whipped with a rattan stick in his soft flabby grandstanding ass. He can keep his job. But he needs to be publicly humiliated for the jackass he is.

Sorry, I didn't see the second n. Now I would have to agree with you.

[turinturambar]

Glenn Beck is an idiot and nothing he says merits much of a response except mocking laughter.

I believe Obama self identifies as an African American and that is good enough for me. That he hates white culture or whatever hyperbolic BS Beck chooses to throw out is ridiculous. A more interesting question to me is why Obama chose such a self-identification, though he has about 50% 'white' heritage. I suspect his experiences are shaded by the fact that he looks more like his father and is perceived that way by others. If he resembled his mother in skin tone and features he might easily have self-identified differently.

It's a black thing, you wouldnt understand.

I think he identifies as African American because that's how culture identifies him. The term Mulatto went out a long time ago. There's a term we learned in Anthropology, I can't quite remember what it was called, but it basically is a term used for hierarchy of racial identification. For some reason, in many cultures, a person's racial makeup is identified with whatever race is lower on the perceived social hierarchy. For example, a person who is half white and half hispanic will often be viewed as Hispanic. A person who is half Hispanic and half African will often be viewed as African.

This mostly applies to those of fairly balanced mixed ancestry, where as those with a vast majority of one ancestry tend to be lumped in with that particular ancestry.

[SwordoftheMorning]

It seems you only look at life through race tinted glasses. Everywhere you go are your 'race flags' just ready to pop out at a moments notice, even to the point where you have the ability to read the subconcious of other people? If someone's subconcious can be read so easily, yours screams loudly of bigotry and prejudice. You go out of your way "daily" to try so hard to interpret the slightest action as a prejudice act against you and even go as far as pretending you speak for countless "others you don't know" and the racism they experience. Shit, you can't even sit in a bookstore without counting and watching for other black people to come in the store. A woman walks up to you and you go out of your way to 'investigate' if she talks to others. Maybe you looked clueless or maybe she thought you were cute, OR maybe she was doing her fucking job. You must be the worlds only telepath to have this mind reading ability of yours. Yeah race sometimes plays a factor. But it goes both ways Sword and when you pretend it doesn't it just makes you as much of a bigot as the people you rail against.

lol .. perfect example of how mo matter what the evidence, there are those that will deny there is any proof.

Look, if the girl had been walking by, seen me and asked if she could help, I wouldn't have noticed. But I saw her look in my direction, exit from behind the counter, make a beeline for me , ignoring all other customers btw and inquiring about my being in the store. Since I didn't want to assume the worse, I watched for a decent amount of time just to be sure that her behavior was to say the least, unique. And it was. Now, Since you prefer to ignore all that, there is nothing at all that would possibly convince you that people do act racist or biased, maybe without even realizing it.

Speaking of mistakes in communications, when I was a young pup in the army, a sergent of mine was instructing us on the best was to affect a "field expedient" fix to some broken equipment. However, the term he used was we should "nigger rig it". When we made a complaint to our company commander about him using such a slur ( we = me and the two other Black guys in the squad), He seemed genuinely shocked that we were offended. To him, it was a term that he grew up with and was used frequently by people he knew.

Was he a racist ? no, I worked with him for quite awhile prior to this and he was a decent enuff guy. Did he commit a racist act by using a slur towards Black soldiers ? damn skippy he did. The end result was he was transferred to another unit, our Capt making the judgement that he had comprimised his ability to lead us. That he didn't "mean" to be offensive didn't mitigate completely the fact that he was. It was us soldiers he offended saying clearly we didn't believe he intended to be insulting that saved him from harsher punishment. btw. Like losing his rank.

In retrospect, it might have been 1975, but he SHOULD have been aware of what he was saying.

Did the girl in the bookstore actively decide "there's a Black guy, Danger! Danger" ? I have no idea. but to be clearly singled out for "unusual" treatment, in comparison to all the other customers, clearly signified to me an at least subconcious reaction of that exact sort.

[TheKassi]

More attacks for having the temerity to discuss race and the fact that racism is real and actually happens, actually affects people in their day to day life. The best you can do is unspecific claims about "seeing racism at the drop of a hat". What a crock. Your incomplete and incorrect assertions are just the re-workings of figments of your imagination. U remember the things you want to remember the way u prefer to remember them. Fine, don't offer that as "proof" of what I am in any degree.

I clearly mentioned the quote I used from what Stego said and how similar it is to what Beck said. The REST of my post, I also clearly reference Beck and people like him. Whatever hangups and misconceptions you have don't change that.

Didnt say that, To me, the greatest, most overwhelming proof is that which is consistently denied by those who would rather not see racism for what it. The historical trends patterns and data. Just this week, The Illinois State police released there traffic stop study which clearly shows that many more Black drivers are stopped and subjegated to "constent searches", even tho the data has shown for 7 straight years, more contraband is discovered in the cars of White drivers stopped for those same searches.

Now, can any ONE Black driver PROVE that the cop stopping him was doing so because he/she is Black ? nope. But 7 years of data don't lie does it ?

My issue is with one, the Glenn Beck types that attempt to smear anyone mentioning race as a racist. And also, the willful ignorance of so many who act like each and every incident is a stand alone occurance when the very history of this nation PROVES otherwise.

The specific examples were the Gates thread and this one. This as nothing to do with pointing out that racism exists in America, thats a fact, it has to do with leveling charges of racism at everyone who disagrees with you.

You linked Stego to Beck, described how similar they were, and then wrote a big giant essay on how Beck and people like him want to return America to a time when you could be killed without consequences. Like Racism in America, that to is fact.

Stego disagreed with you, therefore he is racist and wouldn't care if you were slaughtered by a mob.

As for the above statistics, sounds like a good candidate for racial profiling to me. Doesn't however mean that all cops or all white people are racist. You can find a lot of freaked out statistics if you want to play such games.

Like “Black people are twice as likely to kill a white acquaintance as a white person is to kill a black acquaintance, and a black people are three and a half times as likely to kill a white stranger then the other way around.â€

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

Is this strong evidence that the black community is racist? No, of course not. Is it justification for the white girl in the book shop to fear you? That would be nonsense.

Unless of course we use the logic of your arguments.

[alguien]

It seems you only look at life through race tinted glasses. Everywhere you go are your 'race flags' just ready to pop out at a moments notice, even to the point where you have the ability to read the subconcious of other people? If someone's subconcious can be read so easily, yours screams loudly of bigotry and prejudice. You go out of your way "daily" to try so hard to interpret the slightest action as a prejudice act against you and even go as far as pretending you speak for countless "others you don't know" and the racism they experience. Shit, you can't even sit in a bookstore without counting and watching for other black people to come in the store. A woman walks up to you and you go out of your way to 'investigate' if she talks to others. Maybe you looked clueless or maybe she thought you were cute, OR maybe she was doing her fucking job. You must be the worlds only telepath to have this mind reading ability of yours. Yeah race sometimes plays a factor. But it goes both ways Sword and when you pretend it doesn't it just makes you as much of a bigot as the people you rail against.

This is the kind of hyperbolic statement that completely destroys any attempt at legitimate discussion.

I love that some whites on this board like to pose as the true exposers of [*ETA: RACIST] bigotry, especially when they've never experienced it themselves. Some of you should take this workshop. (click on Play Sample buttons--especially for Blue Eyed)

ps. I think everyone reading this thread is racists and hates everyone else. Except me. FTW.

*ETA: fixed for turin

[turinturambar]

This is the kind of hyperbolic statement that completely destroys any attempt at legitimate discussion.

I love that some whites on this board like to pose as the true exposers of bigotry, especially when they've never experienced it themselves. Some of you should take this workshop. (click on play sample)

ps. I think everyone reading this thread is racists and hates everyone else. Except me. FTW.

Saying they've never experienced bigotry is quite an assumption.