The "new" definition of Racism or

[SwordoftheMorning]

The specific examples were the Gates thread and this one. This as nothing to do with pointing out that racism exists in America, thats a fact, it has to do with leveling charges of racism at everyone who disagrees with you.

You linked Stego to Beck, described how similar they were, and then wrote a big giant essay on how Beck and people like him want to return America to a time when you could be killed without consequences. Like Racism in America, that to is fact.

Stego disagreed with you, therefore he is racist and wouldn't care if you were slaughtered by a mob.

As for the above statistics, sounds like a good candidate for racial profiling to me. Doesn't however mean that all cops or all white people are racist. You can find a lot of freaked out statistics if you want to play such games.

Like “Black people are twice as likely to kill a white acquaintance as a white person is to kill a black acquaintance, and a black people are three and a half times as likely to kill a white stranger then the other way around.â€

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

Is this strong evidence that the black community is racist? No, of course not. Is it justification for the white girl in the book shop to fear you? That would be nonsense.

Unless of course we use the logic of your arguments.

So from the post in two threads, over the last week or so, you can definitively state I accuse people of being racist at the drop of a hat ?

lol

No, you can't. I simply advance a viewpoint you disagree with and in an attempt to shout me down or failing that discredit anything I say, you try the point the finger back at me game.

It's not even a new twist to the same ole game. It's tired and on this board, it doesn't work.

[TheKassi]

For some reason, in many cultures, a person's racial makeup is identified with whatever race is lower on the perceived social hierarchy. For example, a person who is half white and half hispanic will often be viewed as Hispanic. A person who is half Hispanic and half African will often be viewed as African.

I do not mean this as an accusation, I am genuinely curious about this statement. Please do not view it as like defensive or anything.

Who ranked Hispanics higher then African Americans on the perceived social hierarchy? Its there like an actual list set up by a racial studies organization or was it like just a personal observation or..?

[SwordoftheMorning]

I do not mean this as an accusation, I am genuinely curious about this statement. Please do not view it as like defensive or anything.

Who ranked Hispanics higher then African Americans on the perceived social hierarchy? Its there like an actual list set up by a racial studies organization or was it like just a personal observation or..?

If you're White .... Alright

If you're Brown ... Stick around

If you're Black ... Get Back!

Hopefully, most of u kids on this board aren't all the familar with that lil ditty.

But I grew up hearing it in the 60's and 70's.

[TheKassi]

So from the post in two threads, over the last week or so, you can definitively state I accuse people of being racist at the drop of a hat ?

lol

No, you can't. I simply advance a viewpoint you disagree with and in an attempt to shout me down or failing that discredit anything I say, you try the point the finger back at me game.

It's not even a new twist to the same ole game. It's tired and on this board, it doesn't work.

Well Stego disagreed with the way you jump to a conclusion of racism without any evidence of racism besides the fact that the police officer had white skin. You then compared Stego to an individual 'and those like him' who you claim want to return America to a time where you can be killed without consequence because of the color of your skin.

Thats pretty much leveling accusations of racism at the drop of a hat right there.

Besides, you are accusing me of trying to shout you down while I pretend there is no such thing as racism in America based on a couple of posts, so please try to be less hypocritical.

[turinturambar]

I do not mean this as an accusation, I am genuinely curious about this statement. Please do not view it as like defensive or anything.

Who ranked Hispanics higher then African Americans on the perceived social hierarchy? Its there like an actual list set up by a racial studies organization or was it like just a personal observation or..?

I don't know. I read the article over 2 years ago when I was pursuing a degree in archaeology. I'm just quoting what I remember. FWIW the article was actually written by a black professor if I remember correctly. I believe he quoted his race a few times along with personal experiences. I wish I could find it....unfortunately google search after google search has come up unsuccessful.

This professor also went on to talk about how race is a myth, that there are blacks from certain regions who are shorter, rounder, skinnier, etc and that the same goes with caucasians and other races. In some regions Africans have more in common, physiologically with Europeans than they do other Africans.

I'm probably butchering this, but I can only remember pieces of the article. It's kind of like recalling a drunken evening.

[TheKassi]

I don't know. I read the article over 2 years ago when I was pursuing a degree in archaeology. I'm just quoting what I remember. FWIW the article was actually written by a black professor if I remember correctly. I believe he quoted his race a few times along with personal experiences. I wish I could find it....unfortunately google search after google search has come up unsuccessful.

Ahh well, thanks for doing your best to look it up for me :)

[Kalbear]

Race being a myth is pretty well-established; there's very little to recommend the term 'race' when discussing various human phenotypes, and the concept of race came into play primarily when slavery and the new world came into more swing; prior to that it wasn't nearly as big an issue.

Race has always been about establishing a reason to oppress.

[SwordoftheMorning]

Well Stego disagreed with the way you jump to a conclusion of racism without any evidence of racism besides the fact that the police officer had white skin. You then compared Stego to an individual 'and those like him' who you claim want to return America to a time where you can be killed without consequence because of the color of your skin.

Thats pretty much leveling accusations of racism at the drop of a hat right there.

Besides, you are accusing me of trying to shout you down while I pretend there is no such thing as racism in America based on a couple of posts, so please try to be less hypocritical.

Wrong on all counts.

The "evidence" I supported was the statement of Professor Gates. That you and others discount its value is your choice, but the claim of no evidence is spurious.

I didn't compare Stego to anyone, I compared the two STATEMENTS.

I stated you are trying to shout me down do to exactly what you said. Pointing the finger at me. Making completely incorrect assertions that are demonstrably false. Directly at ME. Thats pretty much a good definition of trying to obsfucate what I am saying.

As far as facts go, the only person I have called a racist was Sgt Crowley, and I'll say retrospect, that was more the heat of the argument. The intimations and all out pointed statements that "I" am the real racist around here just keep on coming.......... lol

So no, it has nothing to with your post on the subject, only with your direct attacks on me.

[Annelise]

Glen Back should lose his job because he sucks at it, adds nothing to the debate, generally introduces yet more stupid to the airwaves, and gives actual libertarians a bad name by claiming the label.

If you think I'm advocating Beck's firing, no, not at all. I said he should be "caned", not "canned". Publicly whipped with a rattan stick in his soft flabby grandstanding ass. He can keep his job. But he needs to be publicly humiliated for the jackass he is.

Sorry, I didn't see the second n. Now I would have to agree with you.

:lol: :thumbsup:

[Meili]

This is the kind of hyperbolic statement that completely destroys any attempt at legitimate discussion.

I love that some whites on this board like to pose as the true exposers of [*ETA: RACIST] bigotry, especially when they've never experienced it themselves.

Why do so many people think whites never experience any sort of racist ('prejudice' would be so much more accurate in this thread) behavior or actions? Ever. Are we in some contest or something? Do I have to wave my 'I am a Jew' flag or someone has to pop in their 'I'm part Native American', 'I'm Hispanic' or 'I'm Asian' to be able to engage in debate on ethnic attitudes in this country? Or the world? We've all seen it and were not so dumb that we can't grasp what it is and what it feels like or even what it would feel like if someone hasn't ever experienced it. Do I have to wave my 'Racism is pretty fucking prevalent in Yemen to Jewish people so I understand' to be able to jump in? Just because Sword is black and he says he has experienced this painful and hurtful discrimination... every single day of his life, doesn't make him an authority on racism or prejudical behavior. He needs to give 'white' people more credit than he does and you need to stop assuming that you know white people have piped in without having the wealth of knowledge you possess on the matter.

[TheKassi]

Wrong on all counts.

The "evidence" I supported was the statement of Professor Gates. That you and others discount its value is your choice, but the claim of no evidence is spurious.

I didn't compare Stego to anyone, I compared the two STATEMENTS.

I stated you are trying to shout me down do to exactly what you said. Pointing the finger at me. Making completely incorrect assertions that are demonstrably false. Directly at ME. Thats pretty much a good definition of trying to obsfucate what I am saying.

As far as facts go, the only person I have called a racist was Sgt Crowley, and I'll say retrospect, that was more the heat of the argument. The intimations and all out pointed statements that "I" am the real racist around here just keep on coming.......... lol

So no, it has nothing to with your post on the subject, only with your direct attacks on me.

A: Gates assumed that Crowley was a racist from the moment he had opened his mouth. Being white and wearing blue isn't evidence.

B: The 'I didn't compare Stego' stuff is just silly. If you didn't want to lump him into the group of people 'like Glen Beck' you wouldn't have linked them, and then specifically bring up Glen Beck 'and people like him.'

C:You have stated that I am only attacking you because you have the 'temerity to discuss race and the fact that racism is real' which makes your complaints that I am judging your motivations after a couple of threads hypocritical.

You don't know what race I am or who raised me, and I have argued in all these threads that we need to investigate any allegation of racism/abuse of power so we can crucify dirty cops as an example to all the other bigots who think they might one day wish to cross the line. Alls you do know is that I disagree with you some times, because you ignore what doesn't suit your bias.

D:This entire thread is about how Glen Beck and people like him are racists.

And finally, I am only bothering to post in this thread because you are leveling some pretty disgusting accusations at someone who never did anything but disagree with you. So please do not play the victim.

[SwordoftheMorning]

A: Gates assumed that Crowley was a racist from the moment he had opened his mouth. Being white and wearing blue isn't evidence.

B: The 'I didn't compare Stego' stuff is just silly. If you didn't want to lump him into the group of people 'like Glen Beck' you wouldn't have linked them, and then specifically bring up Glen Beck 'and people like him.'

C:You have stated that I am only attacking you because you have the 'temerity to discuss race and the fact that racism is real' which makes your complaints that I am judging your motivations after a couple of threads hypocritical.

You don't know what race I am or who raised me, and I have argued in all these threads that we need to investigate any allegation of racism/abuse of power so we can crucify dirty cops as an example to all the other bigots who think they might one day wish to cross the line. Alls you do know is that I disagree with you some times, because you ignore what doesn't suit your bias.

D:This entire thread is about how Glen Beck and people like him are racists.

And finally, I am only bothering to post in this thread because you are leveling some pretty disgusting accusations at someone who never did anything but disagree with you. So please do not play the victim.

hmmmm, you mean like "People who make allegations of racism at the drop of a hat without any evidence other then 'That person is another race and they are doing something I do not expect/approve of.†?

D - No, even tho you seem incapable of understanding. The thread is about the now popular, at least around here, tactic of accusing anyone the mentions race as a motivating factor for pretty much anything as a racist.

C. ok, swooosh. You went right over my head with that one. No, I don't know you any better than you know me, But I'm not calling names either.

B. Reading is fundemental. You have the right to interpret what I wrote in anyway u feel like. However making definitive statements about what it means from those interpretations is whats silly here.

A. U are vested in discounting Professor Gates. Good for you. Feel that way all you want, but find a point and stick too it. Your claim was I made my judgement without any evidence. Now you are attacking Gates again, but my statement remains correct. I'm taking his word for what happened. ipso facto "evidence".

[dornish prince]

forget all this nonsense. for real.

if we were all being 100% the best we could be AT ALL TIMES and we still had time to shirk this difference or belittle that one then most of us would have a leg to stand on; but please.

we are all, everyone fucking one of us, predisposed. blame it on whatever you would like to. for john's sake, it is blatantly obvious everytime someone brings this issue up. i refer back to the talk of extremes and it strikes me as more than apparent that, other than a scant semantic concession, there has been no new ground forged.

i've heard the term "absence of race" tossed about in this thread. its fundamentally ridiculous because of our right to say whatever we want and our refusal to not adhere, and keep loyal, to the race that we were born into. how can any one of us ever win that fight?*

i'll tell you how. by not making a big deal of it to begin with.

it isn't like we can though. if we did, we'd be called names and denigrated by an entirely new group of people.

religious folk call it 'going to hell in a handbasket'. call it whatever you want, but i call it failure. its very true that you see many extreme examples in the newspaper and such but the means to change it sleeps with us every night.

as long we all keep bringing up every shitty thing that happens, we're fucked. i wanna go off on a long diatribe of truly heartwarming situations i've experienced. i won't though because someone in the very beginning of this thread asked sword about instances of the exact opposite.

do you see what i'm talking about?

seriously, you guys are fucking up my chi.

later.

[Annelise]

Are we in some contest or something? Do I have to wave my 'I am a Jew' flag or someone has to pop in their 'I'm part Native American', 'I'm Hispanic' or 'I'm Asian' to be able to engage in debate on ethnic attitudes in this country? Or the world?

We're discussing racism in this particular country, for one. Obviously you don't have to be a minority or to have experienced racism to engage in the discussion; it would be a pretty one sided conversation if so, and that's clearly not the intent of the thread. I don't view it as a contest; I personally find value in hearing people's experiences because I can't think of any prejudice I've encountered due to my race nor has it been an issue for my family or friends that I'm aware of, so their stories help me relate better. I believe that supplementing a lack of direct experience this way helps breach disconnects and leads to greater understanding. I bring my own experiences w/ racism (or prejudice if you prefer) to the discussion, though they are not as a victim.

[DanteGabriel]

Man, been watching some cable news today. I am truly terrified for the country right now. To think that finally electing the first minority President was actually the beginning of a new era of racial tension.

I'm not making a comment here on anything in this thread specifically...there just seems to be a huge tension in the air all of the sudden. It's frightening. I hope it passes.

There's tension in the air because the right wing's operatives find it useful to stoke racial tensions in a time of economic hardship. And then they go and compare Obama to Hitler.

[Shryke]

The racism was always there. It just didn't come out as much because before now, White People were assured of their dominance.

[VarysTheSpider]

I saw her look in my direction, exit from behind the counter, make a beeline for me , ignoring all other customers btw and inquiring about my being in the store.

So you initiated eye contact with her, right? I used to work in a shop - I'd assume that meant you either actually required some assistance or were about to slip a book in your jacket pocket. Either way I'm walking towards you.

I'll throw in my experience - I live in south east London. In my particular borough white people are about 60% of the population, which, relatively, is very low. I tend to think that race really doesn't matter in society much, but when you look at the place I live in - where the whites such as myself live in the affluent areas and blacks live in the poorer areas, is quite a reminder that it does. They're trapped in the same problems that poor white people have - drug abuse, absent parents, crap schools, unemployment. However much personal attitudes on race change ("If racism was absolished tomorrow") I don't think that will change the nature of the problems experienced disproportionately by minorites for generations.

[SwordoftheMorning]

So you initiated eye contact with her, right? I used to work in a shop - I'd assume that meant you either actually required some assistance or were about to slip a book in your jacket pocket. Either way I'm walking towards you.

I'll throw in my experience - I live in south east London. In my particular borough white people are about 60% of the population, which, relatively, is very low. I tend to think that race really doesn't matter in society much, but when you look at the place I live in - where the whites such as myself live in the affluent areas and blacks live in the poorer areas, is quite a reminder that it does. They're trapped in the same problems that poor white people have - drug abuse, absent parents, crap schools, unemployment. However much personal attitudes on race change ("If racism was absolished tomorrow") I don't think that will change the nature of the problems experienced disproportionately by minorites for generations.

No, there was no direct eye contact until she walked directly up and spoke to me. One sometimes irritating holdover from my days as a Ranger is the "scouting" of locations as I enter and the constant scanning to evaluate my surroundings. Sometimes I wish I could stop, but the habit is too deeply ingrained.

But yea. I think she was assuming something alright.

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

I'm a white person, and experiencing derogatory comments based on my skin colour isn't an uncommon thing. That being said, am i allowed to now join the discussion?

I object to the way 'racism' as a term is tossed about. I remember dating a black girl a few years ago, and visiting her family for the first time. I got quite a few odd looks from her parents. They seemed rather surprised about me, and unsure. Is this racism? I would say no. Racism, is the hatred of another race. Most likely if Sword had been in my position, with a white girl, he'd have made another thread in general chatter. The reality is that we will never be able to become colour-blind. However, there is a difference between people noticing the skin colour of others and being 'racists'.

[TheKassi]

hmmmm, you mean like "People who make allegations of racism at the drop of a hat without any evidence other then 'That person is another race and they are doing something I do not expect/approve of.†?

D - No, even tho you seem incapable of understanding. The thread is about the now popular, at least around here, tactic of accusing anyone the mentions race as a motivating factor for pretty much anything as a racist.

C. ok, swooosh. You went right over my head with that one. No, I don't know you any better than you know me, But I'm not calling names either.

B. Reading is fundemental. You have the right to interpret what I wrote in anyway u feel like. However making definitive statements about what it means from those interpretations is whats silly here.

A. U are vested in discounting Professor Gates. Good for you. Feel that way all you want, but find a point and stick too it. Your claim was I made my judgement without any evidence. Now you are attacking Gates again, but my statement remains correct. I'm taking his word for what happened. ipso facto "evidence".

A: I don't have a vested interest in discounting Professor gates. Again, how come you get to make all these decisions about my motivation based on a couple of posts but no one else gets to?

As for Gates, he said the words himself. He had an instinctual and negative reaction to the officer the moment he laid eyes on him, and he wrote a little racist dialog for Crowley the moment he stepped in side. Thats the word of Gates on the subject, not anyone else's.

Gates Never claimed the officer did anything overtly racist.

B: Hypocritical nonsense given all the stuff you are saying about other people who disagree with you. Once again, this whole thread is about how you are making definitive statements based on interpretations of what people say.

C: You have argued my agenda as divined from some of my disagreement with your position (ignoring of course all the talk about the need to investigate and hammer racist cops.) and then complained about how I am making definitive statements about interpretations of your posts, falling back on the argument that I don't really know you.

Pointing out that I can say the same about you not know me, doesn't stop you however. Double standards suck.

D: Stego didn't accuse you of bias because you mentioned race as a motivating factor, he did it because you declared a man a racist without any evidence.

I do not think you can use the Beck/Obama example for that statement, because Obama never argued race was a motivating factor in much of anything recently, much less the Gates Case.

Heck, I do not think Gates has yet definitively stated that he thought the cop was racist.