Security Squish Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Everyone in this country can get health care. Its called the Hippocratic Oath. They just can't get it for whatever price they want.I'm pretty sure that's not what the Hippocratic oath is all about. I'm also pretty sure that the "healthcare" given to everyone isn't exactly the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ector Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 No one is forcing you to switch to the public option :huh:I would be forced to pay for it by the two options I mentioned above and for the reason I mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watcher Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I do oppose it. I don't believe in forcing moral opinions on others. A society will never function in this manner. Since government is an object of force, I believe its only function should be protecting the rights of the individual (health care is a right. cheap health care is not a right) and taxing to provide for this protection. Also the last place I want an object of force in my life is in my health care decisions. Thats just dumb.All governments "force moral opinions" it's part of their job and if done right makes society more stable. A few examples are speed Limits, minimum drinking age, laws against stealing. A public option would be good because the private sector has been unresponsive to the needs of the consumer. This would give people a third option and might actually make the insurance companies competitive or at least more responsive to the humans they purport to insure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Squish Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Nobody is forcing me to stay with a certain health care company. If I don't like the medical options, I would switch providers.Do you even know what provider options you have, and at what cost? Most Americans are very limited in their choices. I know I am, my only real option is what is offered by my employer, everything else is either too expensive or too worthless. Maybe you do know, but that would put you in the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ector Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I'm pretty sure that's not what the Hippocratic oath is all about. I'm also pretty sure that the "healthcare" given to everyone isn't exactly the real deal.Sure it is. I have never heard of someone being denied life-saving treatment due to funds in this country. Now the UK (which is a single payer system) on the other hand...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ector Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 All governments "force moral opinions" it's part of their job and if done right makes society more stable. A few examples are speed Limits, minimum drinking age, laws against stealing. A public option would be good because the private sector has been unresponsive to the needs of the consumer. This would give people a third option and might actually make the insurance companies competitive or at least more responsive to the humans they purport to insure.Every example you just named is an example of protecting individual rights which I stated is a government's job.There is no such thing a free-market being unresponsive to the people. There are 1500 insurance providers in the US. Each one is competing for your business. They care about your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Oh sure, you can go to the ER.But then, forcing people to go to the ER for treatment is stupid and stupidly expensive. It is, literally, the worst possible way to run a health care system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Squish Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Sure it is. I have never heard of someone being denied life-saving treatment due to funds in this country. Now the UK (which is a single payer system) on the other hand......................No one is denied life saving treatments in the UK. ANyhting denied there could be denied here as well with our current system. They provide treatment for imediate life threatening situations the same as we do. That is all we do for everyone here by the way, stop them from dying in the ER, if we can, then wash our hands. Also the Oath has nothing to do with it, there are laws involved, in both countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watcher Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Nobody is forcing me to stay with a certain health care company. If I don't like the medical options, I would switch providers.That's nice, a counter example is my girl friend who won't be able to get health insurance if she changes jobs due to a pre-existing condition. If she loses her job, no insurance company would touch her for anything that resembles a reasonable price. Sure it is. I have never heard of someone being denied life-saving treatment due to funds in this country. Now the UK (which is a single payer system) on the other hand......................Even if this example wasn't bullshit it's a good thing a single payer system isn't being proposed in America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ector Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 No one is denied life saving treatments in the UK. ANyhting denied there could be denied here as well with our current system. They provide treatment for imediate life threatening situations the same as we do. That is all we do for everyone here by the way, stop them from dying in the ER, if we can, then wash our hands. Also the Oath has nothing to do with it, there are laws involved, in both countries.25% of people diagnosed with prostate cancer die in the UK. 0% die in the US. Tell me why that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Everyone in this country can get health care. Its called the Hippocratic Oath. They just can't get it for whatever price they want.What does the Hippocratic Oath, an oath attesting to the ethics of physicians, have to do with health care in America? Are physicians now bound by law to provide care at no cost if the patient cannot pay? What the hell kind of stupid argument is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 25% of people diagnosed with prostate cancer die in the UK. 0% die in the US. Tell me why that is?Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ector Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 That's nice, a counter example is my girl friend who won't be able to get health insurance if she changes jobs due to a pre-existing condition. If she loses her job, no insurance company would touch her for anything that resembles a reasonable price.Your girlfriend isn't being denied healthcare. If she needs life saving treatment she will get it under the current health care system. Because 1500 companies can't find a way to provide her with what she wants at her price doesn't make them evil or unresponsive. It makes the price you want impossible for the health insurance company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watcher Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Every example you just named is an example of protecting individual rights which I stated is a government's job.There is no such thing a free-market being unresponsive to the people. There are 1500 insurance providers in the US. Each one is competing for your business. They care about your needs.A minimum drinking age is protecting my individual right? Can you expand on this? Why can an 18 year old go to war, vote and drive but not have a beer? Because we are forcing our morals on that individual, it has nothing to do with his rights. No, insurance companies, like every other business, looks to maximize their profits and minimize costs. They care more about the bottom line then your health and will look for a reason to drop your coverage if it looks like the costs of treating you will be too expensive. That has been documented and at a recent Congressional hearing no head of an insurance company would commit to not do so. They don't care about my needs or your needs as much as they care about their profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ector Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Source?Heard Daniel Hannan bring it up on the radio the other day. Here was the transcript: http://www.goldcoastchronicle.com/on-the-h...-daniel-hannan/Its towards the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Squish Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 25% of people diagnosed with prostate cancer die in the UK. 0% die in the US. Tell me why that is?Now I know you don't know what you are talking about. I have seen people with prostate cancer die in the U.S. I have been in the room with their families, I have carried their bodies. These people are real, they are not part of 0%, because 0% has no parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ector Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 A minimum drinking age is protecting my individual right? Can you expand on this? Why can an 18 year old go to war, vote and drive but not have a beer? Because we are forcing our morals on that individual, it has nothing to do with his rights. No, insurance companies, like every other business, looks to maximize their profits and minimize costs. They care more about the bottom line then your health and will look for a reason to drop your coverage if it looks like the costs of treating you will be too expensive. That has been documented and at a recent Congressional hearing no head of an insurance company would commit to not do so. They don't care about my needs or your needs as much as they care about their profit.You are absolutely right about the drinking age. I'm sorry. And thus I do not support a drinking age limit. Insurance companies maximize profits by getting customers. They get customers by offering better prices then their competitors and keeping owning up to their contracts. If some company did the thigns you claim they would get destroyed in a free market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodRider Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Every example you just named is an example of protecting individual rights which I stated is a government's job.There is no such thing a free-market being unresponsive to the people. There are 1500 insurance providers in the US. Each one is competing for your business. They care about your needs.OK. Thanks for the laugh. But you have proven yourself to be seriously deluded, and quite naieve.Insurance companies maximize profits by getting customers. They get customers by offering better prices then their competitors and keeping owning up to their contracts. If some company did the thigns you claim they would get destroyed in a free market.Ohhhh and look - you even put a cherry on top of all the nuts! You are so wrong about so many things... Its amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Squish Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Your girlfriend isn't being denied healthcare. If she needs life saving treatment she will get it under the current health care system. Because 1500 companies can't find a way to provide her with what she wants at her price doesn't make them evil or unresponsive. It makes the price you want impossible for the health insurance company.You do realize people can't get healh insurance from any company in the counrty right? There are laws on the books about this already, and one of the things healthcare reform is trying to change. I know the presidnet has talked about his desire to allow people to shop for insurance across state lines. A national program would of course operate across state lines. This 1500 number of yours may have a grain of truth to it, but has no bearing on reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 They care about your needs. i haven't laughed so hard in many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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