Jaime Lannister in A Clash of Kings

[awesome possum]

Second Warning: This thread contains spoilers from the second book in the series, specifically regarding Jaime Lannister.

The idea for this thread stems from a post by BlueRose in the WorldCon thread and the following snippet of a post after her lunch with GRRM:

He mentioned that Jaime Lannister is almost not present in aCoK at all, so the actors contract will have to be structured in a way so that he understands he will have season 2 off but will be back to full time in season 3.

This made me wonder: if the show is a success and likewise the character of Jaime is a big hit (either as heartthrob or awesome asshole villain or awesome asshole villain heartthrob), will they decide to restructure the second season so that he makes more appearances?

As we know, well, those of us who have read the series, Jaime spends all of the book in the Riverrun dungeon. In order to keep Jaime part of the story, as much as they can, does anyone think they'll add some scenes?

I don't think it would be a stretch to have a short scene every episode/other episode with Edmure/Robb/the Blackfish/Catelyn or any combination of those characters descend to the dungeon to speak with Jaime. It might even be a good way to show the changes already starting to take effect in his character and appearance. How, as Cersei stays this beautiful monster, Jaime is slowly wilting in beauty due to being in the dungeon.

Maybe it's just me, but I think that the actor who plays Jaime, I'm betting on a relative unknown with theater experience, will be one if not the breakout star of the series. Fans will be clamoring for more of him during the second season, and this would be a way to do. It wouldn't have to stray far from the books. They could even take the conversation he has with Catelyn at the end and stretch it out over a couple episodes/repeat trips for her to the dungeon.

What thinks ye?

[Tikva]

I doubt that Jaime will have more fans than he has right now given that he should be an arrogant asshole all the time during the first season, as I saw him in the first book. I'm thinking that fans will be clamoring for more only after the second season. Let's wait and see, maybe actress playing Arya will become new Megan Fox. :idea:

Of course only if Morgan Freeman hasn't already been cast...

[Secret Tarth]

I think it would make more sense to draw out the scenes where he's interrogated throughout the season but not sure if they'll do that or keep faithful to the books. I'm currently rereading ACoK and was just thinking 'where's Jaime?' but just read the chapter where Catelyn goes to question him last night. Can't wait to find out who's been cast as him.

[Rimmer]

I think it'd work really well. A lot of viewers would forget who Jaime is after six months or so if they don't show him on screen. He's not even in Game of Thrones all that much.

[Silverstar]

Would that scene be as good if it's stretched out slowly over a number of episodes, though? A lot of people have it down as one of the best scenes in the book, and it'd be a shame to ruin it by changing it and drip-feeding it to the viewers for the sake of showing Jaime more often, if there are other ways it could be done.

[Mongrel]

No need to change the story; they can realistically show Jaime and have him interact with people for more than half of the second season.

***MORE SPOILERS***

Jaime wasn't chained in the dungeon all the time; for most of the book he was less of a prisoner and more of a guest. It was only after the failed rescue mission, which happens shortly before Catelyn V (chapter 40 of 70), that he was thrown into the "punishment cell", and his physical decline happens only after that.

Don't mess with the scene with Cat. It's perfect.

[red snow]

They can either give him a season off or just have a few more scenes with him being held hostage as others have suggested. Make a meal out of the escape attempt and savour the awesomeness of the Jaime/Catelyn scene.

Jaime is not the only tricky cast member with this respect though. I think Theon will be even trickier as he has very little to do in season 1, a ton to do in season 2 and then a 2-3 season wait for his possible return. Same with Bran who is hardly in ASOS. Hopefully they will cast theatre luvvies for these roles as then they can go stretch the stage muscles between seasons.

[The.Hound]

Theres Sandor in that category too, and Barristan. They both disappear for quite a while, Barristan for a longer time than Sandor, though he is somewhat of a minor character so it might not be a big deal. Sandor however is quite important and I dont know if someone could verify this but I think he disappears near the end of ACoK and only reappears like halfway through ASoS?

[Matarreyes]

I was just wondering the same things as the OP. Because yes, is they cast him right, Jaime will be a huge fan favourite. Don´t compare literature with TV. Book arrogant beatiful assholes are... assholes. TV arrogant beautiful assholes are... cool. Female audience will probably be bigger for the series as well. And let´s face it: Book 1 was written from Starks POV. Had a non-dwarfish Lannister POV been introduced sooner, they may be more likable for us all. Maybe. Imagine a scene with Jaime protesting that Tyrion is going to the Wall without an escort, then learning that Tyrion had been snatched by Cat and exploding in worry/ rage. Insert a shot of a scared Tyrion in his sky cell. The subsequent Ned comment to Jaime "he had been taken on my command" would seem much more provocative. I have an inkling that the producers may not want to do season 1 from Stark POV only. They already have Jaime talking about himself and Aerys in the pilot.

As for the season 2 absense, boy was I saddened to hear that. I actually imagined they´d be having him from time to time. It would prevent people from missing/forgetting the character, and it´s truly not that difficult. Hell, they can do the escape scene on screen instead of having Cat hear about it. A nice little fight for mid season, anyone? Or the scene where Robb gives a scared Cleos his terms and sends him to KL, and Cat thinks Jaime´d never be scared of Grey Wind and they´d never make him call Robb by an honorific "His Grace". Lots of things are going on in Riverrun, and as I said before, the series POV are bound to get mixed.

[Mongrel]

Hell, they can do the escape scene on screen instead of having Cat hear about it.

Yeah, this was what I was trying to suggest before.

[Jon Targaryen]

Jaime just has to be someone good that is unknown. Maybe making a name in theater or something. He is told it's just a part-time gig for the first two seasons and he gets to work it in seasons 3 and 4 if they happen.

His role reminds me, in a way, of the overweight, closet homosexual guy from the Sopranos. He had a bit, background part for 2 or 3 seasons and became the central focus in a later one.

[Padraig]

I expect they will beef up Jaime's role in aCoK (if we get to S2 of course. :)) They can show the attempted escape as mentioned. And they could move 1 chapter from aSoS into S2 and move the release an episode earlier. Timewise, Jaime's opening chapter in aSoS did occur before the end of aCoK. So such a move wouldn't be totally unreasonable. There wouldn't be such a great cliffhanger but I don't think that's as important. Jaime free is a cliffhanger in itself. :)

[Matarreyes]

ASOS is, in itself, a book much more packed with scenes/information than ACOK. It would not surprise me if they pushed things around a bit, specially when POVs are not an issue. I do not expect them to miss with the Cat/Jaime cliffhanger, but a couple of little scences through S2 will not hurt. The seem to be doing a good job out of using tiny pics to establish characters, according to the new pilot scenes.

[Ser Greguh]

Every scene that was added to the pilot script that was not in the books focused on a Lannister in one way or another (we meet Cersei over Jon Arryn's body, we meet Tyrion in a whorehouse, and we watch Jaime be his arrogant self in a confrontation with Ned). Much effort appears to be going into giving the Lannisters equal screen time with the Starks from the get-go, and I see no reason to suspect that that won't continue through Season 2.

To that end, I would expect the insertion of a bit more of an arc between Catelyn and Jaime in Riverrun, with new scenes added, and with scenes that we don't see firsthand in the books but that are alluded to: case in point, Tyrion's attempted rescue. That can make for a very nice mid-season action insert without even having to mess with canon (I think a lot of people gloss over just how close to successful that rescue attempt was; Jaime actually had a sword in hand by the end of it, if memory serves).

Have the one meeting between Catelyn and Jaime that occurs in the books (in that fantastic last Catelyn chapter in ACOK) spread out over multiple meetings, and multiple episodes in S2, and I think you're a long way toward keeping NCW busy enough in S2 before catapulting him into center stage in S3.

[Silverstar]

There's the Catelyn/Bran insert too ;)

I think that inserting more of an arc with Catelyn and Jaime (because for some reason, I always see the two of them as having a real story arc, even though in the books, they only really meet each other that one time) would make sense, as would adding in things like the rescue scene.

I'd prefer they didn't stretch out that last Cat/Jaime scene over multiple meetings though, as it works so perfectly as it is. I'd prefer them to add in new scenes and keep that one exactly as it is.

[Ser Greguh]

There's the Catelyn/Bran insert too ;)

Ah, crap, you're right, although I think of that scene as less of an insert because it references a sort of event that Bran refers to (in internal monologue) as having happened many times in the past.

I think that inserting more of an arc with Catelyn and Jaime (because for some reason, I always see the two of them as having a real story arc, even though in the books, they only really meet each other that one time) would make sense, as would adding in things like the rescue scene.

I'd prefer they didn't stretch out that last Cat/Jaime scene over multiple meetings though, as it works so perfectly as it is. I'd prefer them to add in new scenes and keep that one exactly as it is.

I'm of mixed feeling about the Catelyn/Jaime scene. It's a positively kickass chapter in the book, one of my favorites, but the fact of the matter is that it is just has an awful lot of dialogue and if filmed and shown without a break might come off on screen as positively boring. We're talking 10 pages of pure dialogue, minimum. It'd be ballsy as hell to just put that scene in as written in the books, and I think it might work better to disperse that much of an info-dump over multiple conversations in multiple episodes.

[Padraig]

I'm of mixed feeling about the Catelyn/Jaime scene. It's a positively kickass chapter in the book, one of my favorites, but the fact of the matter is that it is just has an awful lot of dialogue and if filmed and shown without a break might come off on screen as positively boring.

I'll have to re-read to see could it be broken up. At the same time, its the one of the few chapters where flashbacks would actually be useful.

Of course, Cat spends a lot of aCoK going too and from Storm's End, so at best they could only meet 2 or 3 times after she comes back. She could meet him before she goes but they I don't think they could do much of her last chapter then. Otherwise, there would be too big a gap between the beginning and the end of the discussion.

As for the cliffhanger at the end of aCoK. Would it make that big a difference if it was an episode cliffhanger instead of a season ending cliffhanger? When I think about it more, it doesn't actually work that well as a TV season ending cliffhanger since a lot happens timewise after it. Jumping around in time is easier to manage in a book.

[Lord Varys]

We ware going to get pretty much Tyrion/Cersei interaction, and a little bit Lancel as well. Tywin is going to be seen/heard in Harrenhal. I wonder how they are going to handle the Arya scenes when she is there under Tywin/Lorch/Bolton. Are they going to reveal Robb's marriage in the end, or are we to see just the Freys quarreling about a yet unknown event?

[Maui]

Even though I love Jamie as much as the next guy..... ehhh...

For me, what really really makes Jamie Lannister work as a character, is the fact that you don't see him much during the first two books. And when you do hear about Jamie, it's always in a disfavourable light or from his family/kin. That makes it so much more powerfull when Jamie suddenly takes center stage and we finally get to see who Jamie Lannister really is.

[Ohhh, spoilers incoming. Really, don't read on if you don't want spoilers] <----- SPOILER WARNING

And I don't think the viewers will forget Jamie Lannister, even if he isn't shown much. He's Jamie Lannister for crist sake, he's the kingslayer, he's the guy that pushes Brann out the window, he's the guy that fucks the queen, THE KINGSLAYER... His name will be mentioned so often that people will never forget who Jamie Lannister is.

[Padraig]

Well, while you are right that Jaime wouldn't be forgotten, Jaime disappearing for most of S2 wouldn't work very well in TV terms. Maybe they will be able to arrange it but I think it is safer to assume that he will feature more prominently.

He already is in the pilot more than the book chapters. I think that trend will continue. And I don't see why his dark secret can't come out at the end of S2 either way. Him featuring more doesn't have to change that.