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Horus Ex Machina

A thread about hiphop...

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Rap is the common denominator of 99% of hip hop, So if I found a clip of a rock drummer playing a beat that sounded like a traditional hip hop beat, would you say it has no place on this thread because rock drummers aren't hip hop?

That's what I did with the bugs clip, in my opinion that 1950 flow was better than a lot of rappers today.

I strongly disagree with the statement that 99% of hip-hop has rap in it. Hip-hop as an umbrella includes things as diverse as beatboxing and turntablism, neither of which necessitate having rap to accompany them. Personally I prefer instrumental hip-hop to rap-based stuff most of the time - the beats tend to be pretty damn infectious on their own. In any case, if something sounds like a traditional hip-hop beat then it is hip-hop, by definition. If someone is rapping, that does not automatically make it hip-hop.

Anyway, if you had come to the thread and included some analysis of why you think this clip is illustrative of great flow and was technically superior to some modern MCs (perhaps a comparison with some suitably uninspired rapper, and maybe some discussion/explanation of why something that is not in fact hip-hop is relevant), then I can see how we might have had an interesting discussion on the subject. But all you did was drop in the video and claim it was amazing - that's not going to be fun to talk about.

ST

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I strongly disagree with the statement that 99% of hip-hop has rap in it. Hip-hop as an umbrella includes things as diverse as beatboxing and turntablism, neither of which necessitate having rap to accompany them. Personally I prefer instrumental hip-hop to rap-based stuff most of the time - the beats tend to be pretty damn infectious on their own. In any case, if something sounds like a traditional hip-hop beat then it is hip-hop, by definition. If someone is rapping, that does not automatically make it hip-hop.

Anyway, if you had come to the thread and included some analysis of why you think this clip is illustrative of great flow and was technically superior to some modern MCs (perhaps a comparison with some suitably uninspired rapper, and maybe some discussion/explanation of why something that is not in fact hip-hop is relevant), then I can see how we might have had an interesting discussion on the subject. But all you did was drop in the video and claim it was amazing - that's not going to be fun to talk about.

ST

Turntablism, instrumentals, and beatboxing or any other fringe style you can reach for make up less than 1% of hip hop. So I stand by my statement that rap is the common denominator of 99% of hip hop.

And spare me the bullshit about everything on this thread must include a technical discussion and comparison. I'm not the only one who put something and said its good. I put up something you don't like.. Get the fuck over it.

Oh and my post that's supposedly not any fun sparked debate lasting several pages, if its not fun to you then give it up and let it go, post something that IS fun to you.

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Turntablism, instrumentals, and beatboxing or any other fringe style you can reach for make up less than 1% of hip hop. So I stand by my statement that rap is the common denominator of 99% of hip hop.

And spare me the bullshit about everything on this thread must include a technical discussion and comparison. I'm not the only one who put something and said its good. I put up something you don't like.. Get the fuck over it.

Oh and my post that's supposedly not any fun sparked debate lasting several pages, if its not fun to you then give it up and let it go, post something that IS fun to you.

They make up less than 1% of hip-hop that people talk about, that's for sure. But there's plenty of it around - I think you'll have to do stronger than just asserting that it is so for me to believe that 99% of hip-hop has someone rapping on it.

You didn't put up something I didn't like (I thought it was passable), you put up something that isn't relevant, and thread-jacking requires an explanation. When you don't give one, what you get is a page of people arguing over technicalities, which is annoying, not fun.

Anyway, I agree that I should probably put something fun up to cleanse the palette after all this tangential stuff. Practising what I preach, here's a nice J Dilla instrumental to help you chill out:

ST

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They make up less than 1% of hip-hop that people talk about, that's for sure. But there's plenty of it around - I think you'll have to do stronger than just asserting that it is so for me to believe that 99% of hip-hop has someone rapping on it.

You didn't put up something I didn't like (I thought it was passable), you put up something that isn't relevant, and thread-jacking requires an explanation. When you don't give one, what you get is a page of people arguing over technicalities, which is annoying, not fun.

Anyway, I agree that I should probably put something fun up to cleanse the palette after all this tangential stuff. Practising what I preach, here's a nice J Dilla instrumental to help you chill out:

ST

I'll show you 99 hip hop productions that include rap for every 1 thing you show without it. That's the only way I know to prove it to you. And I don't even think instrumentals should count since a lot of people use them or intend them to be used for ppl to freestyle over.

I didn't jack your damn thread, you arent the authority of what's relevant, if pages and pages of explanation isn't enough to make it sink in for you then it's time to give it up and listen to your instrumentals or beatboxing whatever it is you claim makes up significant portion of hip hop.

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Captain Murphy- Immaculation Ft Aziz Gibson and Jermiah Jae

The Underachievers- Gold Soul Theory

Flatbush Zombies- Laker Paper

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They make up less than 1% of hip-hop that people talk about, that's for sure. But there's plenty of it around - I think you'll have to do stronger than just asserting that it is so for me to believe that 99% of hip-hop has someone rapping on it.

You didn't put up something I didn't like (I thought it was passable), you put up something that isn't relevant, and thread-jacking requires an explanation. When you don't give one, what you get is a page of people arguing over technicalities, which is annoying, not fun.

Anyway, I agree that I should probably put something fun up to cleanse the palette after all this tangential stuff. Practising what I preach, here's a nice J Dilla instrumental to help you chill out:

ST

R'n'B is also a category of Hip-hop that together with Djing and beatboxing makes probably more than 1 percent

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yeah really

John legend, mariah Carey, Justin Timberlake...all are hip hop? ok I can dig it ... I guess

And with that hip hop originated somewhere in the 1930s I guess.....

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I didn't jack your damn thread, you arent the authority of what's relevant, if pages and pages of explanation isn't enough to make it sink in for you then it's time to give it up and listen to your instrumentals or beatboxing whatever it is you claim makes up significant portion of hip hop.

I actually think that this is a good discussion. I may not agree with your premise entirely but this is the type of debate on hip hop fundamentals that really needs to be had.

As for me I learned the four elements of hip hop from the school of the 80s and that carried into the 90s. For the most part, much of that doesn't exist anymore in the same way that it existed then, so it's a lot harder to define. Alot of that has changed in the last decade or so to include other things and exclude other things. B-boying/breakdancing isn't exclusive to hip hop anymore and you see people doing it to electronica and house music these days alot more than to hip hop music. Graffiti is more associated with gangs than hip hop culture these days as well. Hip hop is more about the first two elements of mcing and djing as of now. Mcing is basically about rap, but djing can mean a number of things now. It isn't just about scratching on turntables it's about overall production. And that isn't just about the studio anymore either. So that's a bit harder to define now.

Nu-Metal and Rap-Rock have both incorporated rap into their own genres to create new sub-genres. But they're still more associated with rock music than hip hop though they incorporate major hip hop fundamentals and may be fronted by musicians who began their careers making soley hip hop music. It's also not necessarily clear if you can include all R&B even though it often incorporates alot of the same production values. It depends. Neo Soul is more hip hop, since it basically branched off in the 90's though few artists really practice it right now anymore. The only person who I can think of now is Janelle Monae.

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WELL back to the topic of Hip Hop..Lets talk Nas........

Arguably one of the greatest rappers of all-time. He has virtually kept to his roots ("street vibe") his whole career and for that he doesn't have the money or fame of a Jay-Z or P Diddy. But if we're gonna measure success based on money and fame I don't want to be a fan of hip hop anymore. His album "Illmatic" released in 1994 (the year of my birth) and made while he was 18-19 years old is in my opinion the greatest rap album of all time. With his complicated and articulate lyrical style matched with great production, it is easily his greatest achievement or magnus opus if you will. What I also love about him is his longevity. It Was Written, Stillmatic & Life is Good should all be considered in the 50 greatest rap albums of all time.

My favorite songs of his most recent album LIfe is Good are:

Daughters-

Cherry Wine Feat Amy Winehouse-

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WELL back to the topic of Hip Hop..Lets talk Nas........

Arguably one of the greatest rappers of all-time. He has virtually kept to his roots ("street vibe") his whole career and for that he doesn't have the money or fame of a Jay-Z or P Diddy. But if we're gonna measure success based on money and fame I don't want to be a fan of hip hop anymore. His album "Illmatic" released in 1994 (the year of my birth) and made while he was 18-19 years old is in my opinion the greatest rap album of all time. With his complicated and articulate lyrical style matched with great production, it is easily his greatest achievement or magnus opus if you will. What I also love about him is his longevity. It Was Written, Stillmatic & Life is Good should all be considered in the 50 greatest rap albums of all time.

My favorite songs of his most recent album LIfe is Good are:

Daughters-

Cherry Wine Feat Amy Winehouse-

Nas is a living hip hop legend. He's currently putting out hip hop for grown ups, a pretty new off-shoot of the genre. I've loved NaS every since 1994 (the Queensbridge projects were like 2 miles from where i grew up), and am thrilled to see him get his due.

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Love this little group of interviews with Immortal Technique on the topic of race & hip hop... some well thought-out comments....

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I've been listening to Goodie Mobs new album again, and I have found a few other tracks that are definitely worth a listen. It took me a bit to kinda pick out the gems bc alot of their sound seemed pretty experimental or too R&B, but there were a few good ones:

- This is also a bit of a return to form for T.I.

- love the beat and sound on this song. Classic Goodie Mob. Probably one of the few songs that I can say that about on this album. If I could choose one song on this album (this is in the alternate existence that I didn't buy the album already) it would be this one.

A couple of non-Goodie Mob recs (some of these are a bit out of my wheelhouse, but they have some good beats):

This is super old-school. Almost makes me want to buy this album if everything else is this good. Rick Ross has put out good music in the past but I'm new to this Meek Mill, but THIS SOUNDS LIKE A RECOMMENDATION!!!!!

E2A: just listened to a few other tracks and,... yeah this is pretty damn good,... I'm making an album purchase,... highly recommended.

I don't know what it is about getting T.I. featured on an a track, but the production just steps up a notch when he's included. This is just with the two songs sampled here. Blurred Lines doesn't count...

So here's the deal, get MMG Presents Self Made Volume 2 and you won't be disappointed. Just some good old-fashioned hard core hiphop that I used to think would never sell but this apparently is. Didn't think there was a market for this anymore. There must be some "swag" shit on there somewhere just to get the kids buying. BTW Tupack Back is from Vol.1 so I'm hoping that I'm not putting myself out there, but most of the tracks I'm sampling are on point. I can't believe I didn't get the first one.

E2A #2: So I went ahead and got Volume 1 while I was at it. Why not? I saw Wale's and Meek Mill all over it and said... okay. I'm voting with my pocketbook. If they put out music I can listen to, I'll pay for it.

One more...

Wale goes off in this one. So many great lines.

I'm Polamalu, 600 the newest model

My newest motto to use a condom with newest models

Uhh, got a hundred on the dash, young

Ya ain't killers ya'll got hundred yard dash guns

I'm a rare one, camo's and some rare ones

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