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Horus Ex Machina

A thread about hiphop...

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That's not a fair comparison, illmatic came out 6 years before MMLP in 94 during a different era.

Rock music was still king of pop music in 94, em hit during raps takeover of the pop scene.

Now let's go another 6 years before Illmatic,

Follow the Leader by Eric B&rakim was every bit as good as illmatic to me but only sold a few hundred K.

Does that mean Nas is overrated because he had advantages in selling albums over them?

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Illmatic sold about a million copies, MMLP sold over 10 million.

My point exactly, I never said Eminem was mediocre or average, I said he was a good talented rapper, I just think white people have put him up on a pedestal for too long and he's widespread commercial success is directly linked to the color of his skin (I am white btw).

He can flow better than most including everyone on andrews list.

No he can't dude. Nas is in my opinion the greatest rapper of all time, Eminem wouldn't even make the top 20. Andre 3000 would be top 10 at least and Busta would make the top 20. Eminem has lyrical ability, but his flow is nothing more than average.

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That's like the people that say Obama is only president because he is black and black ppl put him unfairly on a pedestal. That's just ridiculous.

So what if some ppl voted for him because he's black or who cares if some ppl bought Marshall Mathers because he's white.

They still went to top of their game because of their talent

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That's not a fair comparison, illmatic came out 6 years before MMLP in 94 during a different era.

Rock music was still king of pop music in 94, em hit during raps takeover of the pop scene.

Now let's go another 6 years before Illmatic,

Follow the Leader by Eric B&rakim was every bit as good as illmatic to me but only sold a few hundred K.

Does that mean Nas is overrated because he had advantages in selling albums over them?

Alright, how about Jay-Z's "The Blueprint"? Came out a year after The MMLP, sold two million copies. Also considered one of the best hip-hop albums of all time. Or Outkast's "Stankonia", another album considered to be one of the greatest ever. Came out the same year as MMLP, sold four million.

Bonus Fun Fact: The only hip-hop album that has sold more copies than The MMLP is MC Hammer's "Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em" at 18 million copies. I think that's pretty incredible :lol:

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I'm pretty sure neither Jay Z nor Outkast are underrated. People give them their respect as among the greatest of all time.

If you are basing it all on album sales endlessly promoted by a big record label then they are all overhyped and Too $hort is the king rapper.

And Scarface in second

Btw I liked MMLP better than blueprint or stankonia.

But Outkasts first 3 albums were better than Marshal Mathews to me though.

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I'm pretty sure neither Jay Z nor Outkast are underrated. People give them their respect as among the greatest of all time.

If you are basing it all on album sales endlessly promoted by a big record label then they are all overhyped and Too $hort is the king rapper.

And Scarface in second

I wasn't saying either of them are underrated though, or that Em is overrated. Like I said I think he's great and MMLP is one of my favorite albums. My only point is that being white made him more popular than he would have been if he made the exact same music as a black guy.

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That's like the people that say Obama is only president because he is black and black ppl put him unfairly on a pedestal. That's just ridiculous.

So what if some ppl voted for him because he's black or who cares if some ppl bought Marshall Mathers because he's white.

They still went to top of their game because of their talent

You just compared Eminem to Barack Obama....this conversation is done, I don't think you will ever understand what I am saying.

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Eminem is okay, Everything up to Eminem Show was good and deserved praise. But he has been pretty awful since then. At this point i'd call him a pop artist


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Also, after listening to MMLP2 in its entirety a few times...mediocrity is the word that stands out in my mind.



There are a few great tracks, a couple of shitty ones and the rest were just...meh.



I'm pretty disappointed to be honest. Rap God gave me a lot of hope. That's easily the best song on the album.


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I wasn't saying either of them are underrated though, or that Em is overrated. Like I said I think he's great and MMLP is one of my favorite albums. My only point is that being white made him more popular than he would have been if he made the exact same music as a black guy.

So what?

There's a certain amount of that sure but not like how it's being claimed.

Like he's only popular because white ppl put him on a pedestal, that's dumb.

Nelly Country Grammar wasn't that far behind MArshall Mathers in sales in the same year.

Enter the Wu Tang is the best rap album ever IMO, it outsold Illmatic, is that because they were whiter than Nas?

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So what?

There's a certain amount of that sure but not like how it's being claimed.

Like he's only popular because white ppl put him on a pedestal, that's dumb.

Nelly Country Grammar wasn't that far behind MArshall Mathers in sales in the same year.

Enter the Wu Tang is the best rap album ever IMO, it outsold Illmatic, is that because they were whiter than Nas?

I don't understand why you're getting so defensive about this. And if you look back to the first post I made on the subject, I specifically said "It's not only because he's white." so I don't know where this "He's only popular because white ppl put him on a pedestal" line is coming from, I never said or implied that.

Anyway, I've made my points. I think it's pretty clear to most people, and clear to Em himself, that being white had a very positive effect on his career. You can disagree with me if you wish I don't really feel like arguing about it anymore.

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Actually the first post about this claimed he is overrated mainly because he is white and he sold so many albums mainly because he is white.

Which I disagree with.

And he would not have half the success if he was "a regular black dude".

First, a regular black dude is not going to be good at rapping, rappers are mostly good at it.

Second, I don't think there are 20 million + people out there who bought a rap album just because the dude is white.

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No he can't dude. Nas is in my opinion the greatest rapper of all time, Eminem wouldn't even make the top 20. Andre 3000 would be top 10 at least and Busta would make the top 20. Eminem has lyrical ability, but his flow is nothing more than average.

Haha...ok. Busta and dre ahead of eminem(early em)?? I know it's opinion but damn.

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Dre and Em have such different styles that it is hard to compare. Outkast is one of my favorite groups of all-time and I love dre so arguing this is kinda weird, to me. They're both great.

Come on Daario...

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Sky high sky high

Nah i still think Goodie Mob first two albums were better than Outkast

Then the 3rd one they lightened up and rapped about corny party shit cuz they had to compete with Outkast being so popular.

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Southernplayalistic...classic

Atliens...great

Aquemini...all-time classic.

I liked Goodie Mob but never really loved them.

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I wasn't saying either of them are underrated though, or that Em is overrated. Like I said I think he's great and MMLP is one of my favorite albums. My only point is that being white made him more popular than he would have been if he made the exact same music as a black guy.

"If I was black, man I wouldn't have sold half, I ain't have to graduate from Lincoln Highschool to know that"

Personally, some of my favorite Eminem tracks are on Recovery 'Cold Wind Blows', 'Cinderella Man', 'Won't Back Down', '25 to life', 'Almost Famous'. They're very different from pre-relapse Eminem, but as someone who was always more moved by his passion and penchant for unbelievable rhyming, I think they're great.

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