American Politics XIV

[Annelise]

I couldn't think of a good subtitle. Anyone have a suggestion?

**************

So Gibbs and Rep. Schakowsky say there is no WH weakening regarding the public option:

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/schako...2009-08-18.html

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/white-...2009-08-18.html

:dunno:

Support remains solid for reform according the last polls I saw, but (to no one's surprise) the amount of proposals out there appear to have bewildered the public. Unless it involves cuts to Medicare, presumably a single bill will help AARP in their efforts to drum up support: http://thehill.com/business--lobby/aarp-fa...2009-08-18.html

[CloudFlare]

Howzabout "I just want my M-14!"?

OK, it's not an M-14. But it kinda fitz the title.

Fucking sweet, it looks like he's carrying a revolver southpaw as well.

[makotohanabi]

No public option pretty much means no reform. I think the support for the public option is strong, that's why conservatives and their insurance industry overlords created an astroturf opposition.

On a related note my Representative, Rep Jim Moran (D-VA 8th), is having a town hall meeting on the 25th with Howard Dean at the local high school. I'm going and hope to speak. Spend part of yesterday looking for my high school diploma, graduated from that school in 1995, and thinking about bringing it as proof I actually live in the 8th district.

Then again we and Rep Moran have a reputation for being liberal, so the astrotufers probably won't waste their time or money.

[Annelise]

England, where sick people are fed to badgers.

... Last week Senator Charles Grassley, the chief Republican negotiator on health-care reform, said in a radio interview that "in countries that have government-run health care, just to give you an example, I’ve been told that the brain tumour that Senator [Ted] Kennedy has—because he’s 77 years old—would not be treated the way it's treated in the United States. In other words, he would not get the care that he gets here because of his age." Mr Grassley was clearly referring to the NHS in Britain, which responded this week that the claim is without merit: "The NHS in England provides health services on the basis of clinical need, irrespective of age or ability to pay." And Matthew Yglesias notes that Mr Grassley is telling "a two-fold lie": "First Grassley falsely implies that congressional Democrats are proposing to create an NHS-like system. Second, he lies about how the NHS operates."

But even that doesn't quite capture it. Not only is Mr Grassley falsely implying that Democrats want to create an NHS-style system where all doctors work for the government. And not only is he falsely saying that such care wouldn't cover Mr Kennedy. He's also falsely implying that Mr Kennedy's health care is not government-run. But of course Mr Kennedy's health insurance comes through the American government's Federal Employees Health Benefits Program. And even if Mr Kennedy were not a senator, he would still get his health insurance from the American government, via Medicare, precisely because he is 77 years old. And even if he were 77 years old but somehow magically ineligible for Medicare, he would still be getting his health insurance as part of a government-organised universal health-insurance system very much like the one being proposed in the House of Representatives right now. Why? Because Mr Kennedy is a resident of Massachusetts, with its universal health-insurance system based on regulated private insurers backed up by a public option—just like the House bill Mr Grassley spends his time criticising.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyin..._people_are.cfm

On a different topic..

In the shadow of the climate bill, the industrial Midwest begins to get ready

As the battle over a cap-and-trade bill continues in Congress, the industrial Midwest finds itself playing an awkward role. The climate bill offers two big opportunities, to reduce global warming and boost the green economy in the process. And nowhere are green jobs more loudly promoted than in the rustbelt. On August 5th Barack Obama and Joe Biden, his vice-president, travelled to Indiana and Michigan, two ailing swing states, to announce new grants to develop electric cars. But hopes for those new green jobs are matched by fears that traditional ones will be lost. With the Senate due to debate a cap-and-trade bill next month, the rustbelt and its politicians are at the heart of the battle.

[...]

Nevertheless, the clean-energy economy remains small. Though green jobs are increasing in number, they accounted for only 0.6% of jobs in Ohio in 2007, according to Pew. The shares in Michigan and Indiana were even smaller, at 0.4% and 0.5% respectively. Manufacturing, for all its troubles, is a behemoth in comparison, accounting for 14% of employment in Ohio, 15% in Michigan and 18% in Indiana in 2007. And it is a dirty giant, dependent on cheap coal. The Midwest emits an outsize share of carbon, according to a report from the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. Indiana is one of the worst offenders, spewing out 4% of America’s carbon emissions in 2007 though it is home to only 2% of its population.

The fear is that a cap-and-trade bill may expand a promising new sector but devastate a struggling, larger one. Mitch Daniels, the Republican governor of Indiana, has worked hard to maintain his state’s manufacturing base. A price on carbon, he argues, would threaten it.

The version of cap-and-trade passed in June by the House was meant to appease such critics. It includes help for manufacturers eager to retool for new industries. Allowances would be given away, not auctioned. And at the urging of a congressman from Michigan, the bill would, from 2020, tax imports from countries that do not restrict emissions. But some Democrats are still wary. Three of Indiana’s five House Democrats voted against the bill.

Now a tough battle looms in the Senate. A new report from the Energy Information Administration (EIA) forecasts that the House bill would depress industrial shipments by 1% between 2012 and 2030 (see chart). But that assumes a quick expansion of nuclear plants, which is unlikely. In the EIA’s worst-case scenario, shipments would drop 3.2%. “They’re huxtering,†huffs George Voinovich, Ohio’s Republican senator, of the green enthusiasts. He wants more support for nuclear power and fears the House bill will transfer wealth from the heartland. On August 6th ten of Mr Voinovich’s Democratic colleagues, including six from the Midwest, wrote to Mr Obama fretting that a bill would cripple manufacturing industry.

But in Toledo Xunlight’s president, Xunming Deng, looks forward to a cap-and-trade bill. “Of course there is a cost, but this is an investment for our economy, for our future,†he says. There remains a danger, however, that compromise will produce a clunker of a bill—one that does little to slow climate change, little to revive the old economy and little to boost a new one. Much now depends on a handful of the states in the heartland.

http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstate...ory_id=14214855

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

I've received one PM on the topic so I'll come out and say that I was not carrying a rifle down at the president's rally. I didn't even know he was in town.

[Annelise]

I've received one PM on the topic so I'll come out and say that I was not carrying a rifle down at the president's rally. I didn't even know he was in town.

:rofl:

[DanteGabriel]

I couldn't think of a good subtitle. Anyone have a suggestion?

I was going to suggest "libertarians go wank your Government 101 fantasies elsewhere" but I suppose that'd be a trifle too hostile.

[Yagathai]

I was going to suggest "libertarians go wank your Government 101 fantasies elsewhere" but I suppose that'd be a trifle too hostile.

We prefer to drop our libertarianism right in your face while we're wanking.

[CloudFlare]

Lol. He ate at Macayo's.

[TrackerNeil]

No public option pretty much means no reform.

I am not certain that is true. Legislation that bans exclusions for preexisting conditions and limits the use of recission to intentional fraud would be a dream, as far as I am concerned.

[Shryke]

There's also quite a few Health Care systems that achieve good results without a public option.

It's not technically necessary if you set up the right rules for the private insurers.

[SwordoftheMorning]

Robert Novak died. The conservative apocalypse continues.... that is all

[DanteGabriel]

Robert Novak died. The conservative apocalypse continues.... that is all

Farewell to another dead hack.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

DG,

If I pass on I can't imagine what you'd say about me.

:|

[Yagathai]

DG,

If I pass on I can't imagine what you'd say about me.

:|

Well, if you died in your sleep, I imagine something like "Farewell to Ser Scott. Like the South, he will not rise again".

[DanteGabriel]

DG,

If I pass on I can't imagine what you'd say about me.

:|

For all the time I spend squabbling with you here Scot, I don't think badly of you or wish ill upon you.

Novak was a willing water-carrier for the shoddy invasion of Iraq. He may have fancied himself a "Prince of Darkness" but he was a tool and a willing mouthpiece in the service of dark and destructive forces.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Yagathai,

Well, I could be proped up (as some would say like the South).

:P

DG,

Good to know. I rarely agree with you but I always enjoy reading your posts (well I mostly enjoy reading your posts). I really wish you could have made it to Montreal.

[Nymeria Sand]

Hope I'm not threadjacking, but this is from the last thread and I wanted to reply. :)

Hell, too many drugs being pushed by Big Pharma aren't even for something as serious as cancer. It's for pointless crap such as Restless Leg Syndrome (side effects may include migraine, diarrhea, blood clots, and eye lesions but your leg will stay still).

Or there's all the anti-depression drugs. You'll be mind-numbingly happy even as you're crapping fountains of orange and purple liquid out of your anus.

There was a big class action lawsuit against GlaxoSmithKline over Paxil's side effects. Really, if you read the side effects you have to wonder why anyone would take them. I'm betting the statins are next.

Or weight-loss drugs. There was the one just recently that was taken off the market for killing people, yet I remember the commercials well, the one with the model dressed up like a doctor saying he was a doctor who used to be fat until he tried this drug. Hydroxicut or something like that.

And I think that was the reformulated version. Hydroxycut (along with a ton of other weight loss products) used to have ephedra in them. Legal speed. It was known for years to cause heart attacks and strokes.

How many popular drugs have been recalled in the last decade because as it turns out, long-term side effects may include freaking death!?!?! More than one is way too freaking many. And yet, it's the government who would screw things up if they were somehow responsible?

I just looked that up. There are 26 pages worth just in the last 5 years at FDA's website.

http://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls/default.htm

[Inigima]

DG,

If I pass on I can't imagine what you'd say about me.

:|

you didn't commit treason so it probably wouldn't be as harsh

[Security Squish]

Yeah, I think drugs are out of control. It's tough because I do believe that some of them are good some of the time. But I also believe that most of them are not and that our system encourages physicians to push them. In "Sicko" they mentioned that this lady was taking nine prescription drugs. Nine? WTF?

Dude, nine is really not that many. I do medrecons on patients with double digit med lists multiple times a day. That's just home meds, not the stuff the hospital gives.