Opening Credits? Closing Credits?

[SerJosh]

I've not watched that many HBO shows, or at least not recent ones, but most HBO series I've watched seem to bill every one of the recurring players in the opening credits, with only a few exceptions, and the rest get billed in the closing credits.

Deadwood always credited the same regulars in the opening credits, and if you weren't a regular, you were billed in the closing credits regardless of how many episodes you appeared in.

Rome was more confusing; after billing the regulars (McKidd, Stevenson, Walker, Cranham, Duncan, Menzies, Condon, Varma, Johnson and in season 2 Robinson & Woods), it began billing the semi-regulars (Boardman, Pirkis, Bamber, Woodeson, etc.) and then seemingly threw in most of the recurring, minor characters as well (Bertish, Cilenti, Francolini, Amiga, etc.) before finishing with Purefoy and Hinds. Despite that, Manfredi Alequio appeared in numerous episodes and was a somewhat prominent character, but was always billed in the closing credits. The same went for Ian McNiece in the first season, despite appearing in almost every episode, but he was moved to the opening credits for season two.

That said, Game of Thrones will have a much larger cast than either series. Do you suppose they will bill all the continuing characters in the opening credits, there bye assuring the longest opening credits sequence in TV history?

I'm thinking that it's obvious that all the POV characters will be billed in the opener, and for the moment I'm fairly certain that all the casting announcements we've heard thus far will be as well.

If I had to decide which order they'd be billed in, I'd say that Bean, Dinklage and Ehle will be billed first, in alphabetical order, followed by Coster-Waldau, Harington, Merchant, Turner, Williams and whoever's playing Bran, followed by Glen, who will then be followed by the more minor recurring roles, billed alphabetically and shown onscreen two or three at a time: Allen, Gleeson, Lloyd, Madden, McCann and whoever plays Drogo, Luwin and Rodrik. Depending on how big a name he is, Pycelle might be listed with Glen, or he might be listed in the latter, minor credits. Finally, the credits will close "with Lena Headey and Mark Addy".

But that's just the pilot. Later in the season we get Renly, Selmy, Littlefinger, Varys, Jeor Mormont, Alliser Thorne, Samwell Tarly and the Blackfish. Are they all going to be billed in the opening credits, Rome-style? Or will they primarily stick with the most prominent characters to prevent the opening sequence from being twenty minutes in length (remember they will also bill the creators, director of photography, editor, producers, writers and director in the opener)?

[The hairy bear]

I don't know much about the legal issues involved, but I've always understood that the actors that appear at the closing or the ending credits are stablished by laws or agreements with the guilds, and it depends of the kind of contract signed. I hope someone with some more knowledge will confirm it.

I'm also not sure wheteher Irish or US laws will apply here.

[Don Quixote]

I'd say opening credits. There's always a chance someone might be flicking through the channels and be caught by a cast member, and decide to give the series a go.

And if they manage to get music that's half as affecting as that used on Band of Brothers, then the credit sequence will be great, regardless of length.

And you can always stick two or three cast members on each credits frame. That would shorten them.

[Hinter]

Surely it's all about how "big" an actor you are and how good an agent you have.

Big Actor = name in opening credits, also-ran = "just happy to be credited, even if my name appears after Chief Toilet Cleaner".

[SerJosh]

Surely it's all about how "big" an actor you are and how good an agent you have.

Big Actor = name in opening credits, also-ran = "just happy to be credited, even if my name appears after Chief Toilet Cleaner".

So...Ian McNiece, who was in Around the World in 80 Days, Dune, No Escape and a number of other high-profile films gets shafted to the end credits in Rome, and Coral Amiga, who had never acted in TV or film before, and gets maybe three lines in the first few episodes and hardly speaks at all in the rest, gets opening credits billing?

Rome's opening credits made no sense. I hope Game of Thrones's credits don't go crazy like that.

[Green Apple Fossoway]

So...Ian McNiece, who was in Around the World in 80 Days, Dune, No Escape and a number of other high-profile films gets shafted to the end credits in Rome, and Coral Amiga, who had never acted in TV or film before, and gets maybe three lines in the first few episodes and hardly speaks at all in the rest, gets opening credits billing?

Ian McNiece's character in Rome was kind of an afterthought. They filmed all of his scenes in one or two days per season. When you get right down to it his character was really only used for information dropping during the episodes. He didn't interact with any other characters. I'm completely OK with him being in the end credits. Coral Amiga, on the other hand, had plenty of screen time, and loads of interaction (if not lines) with other actors. Your two examples make sense where they are to me.

[SerJosh]

Ian McNiece's character in Rome was kind of an afterthought. They filmed all of his scenes in one or two days per season. When you get right down to it his character was really only used for information dropping during the episodes. He didn't interact with any other characters. I'm completely OK with him being in the end credits. Coral Amiga, on the other hand, had plenty of screen time, and loads of interaction (if not lines) with other actors. Your two examples make sense where they are to me.

That still doesn't explain why Manfredi Alecqui, who appeared in nearly every episode, was consigned to the end credits for the entire run of the show, despite having a prominent, and memorable, role, and yet Anna Francolini, who I never really noticed, got opening-credits billing. Surely name-power had nothing to do with that, since neither performer was a well-known name.

Alfie Allen, Jack Gleeson, Harry Lloyd, Richard Madden and Rory McCann are not exactly household names in America, and they are definitely supporting characters who probably won't appear in more than seven or eight episodes in the first season. Where would you think they belong? Opening or closing?

What about whomever they cast as Drogo, Maester Luwin, Rickon, Pycelle, Ser Rodrik, Irri, Jiqui, Doreah, the Bloodriders, Renly, Ser Barristan, Ser Alliser, the Old Bear, Maester Aemon, Grenn, Pypar, Toad, Dareon, Rast, Halder, Matthar, Bronn, etc.?

All are characters who will probably appear in as many episodes as the actors I listed. Some of them may even appear more often. Where do they belong?

[The Pita]

I'd have a few characters with a lot of screen time in the beginning, and then go from there to less and less screen time characters, and at the end of the cast list have:

With Sean Bean

And Peter Dinklage

since those are going to be the two closest things this show has to A-Listers, much like Six Feet Under and Boston Legal did.

[SerJosh]

I was thinking Bean and Dinklage would be listed first, because they are very much lead characters, while Headey and Addy, both well-known faces, if not names, could come at the end.

I'm thinking the credits order will look something like this:

Sean Bean as Lord Eddard Stark

Peter Dinklage as Tyrion Lannister

Jennifer Ehle as Lady Catelyn Stark

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau as Ser Jaime Lannister

Kit Harington as Jon Snow

Sean Kelly as Brandon Stark

Tamzin Merchant as Khaleesi Daenerys Targaryen

Sophie Turner as Sansa Stark

Maisie Williams as Arya Stark

Iain Glen as Ser Jorah Mormont

Patrick Godfrey as Grand Maester Pycelle

Alfie Allen as Theon Greyjoy

David Calder as Maester Luwin

Jack Gleeson as Prince Joffrey Baratheon

Giacomo Gonnella as Khal Drogo

Elliot Huston as Ser Rodrick Cassel

Harry Lloyd as Viserys Targaryen

Richard Madden as Robb Stark

Rory McCann as Sandor “The Hound†Clegane

with Lena Headey as Queen Cersei Baratheon

and Mark Addy as King Robert Baratheon

...of course, I added some actors for roles not cast yet. I'm not thinking these are the people who will be playing them, they're just my choices.

[Soporta]

Alphabetical order following sean bean, and possibly jennifer ehle, peter dinklage, lena headey, and then enter and take out names depending on whether they appear in the episode, then ending with 'with mark addy' and possibly jennifer ehle, peter dinklage or lena headey.

It was weird on the tudors how Callum Blue was credited when he was barely in the series.

[SerJosh]

It was weird on the tudors how Callum Blue was credited when he was barely in the series.

There were only two episodes he was credited for that he wasn't in. Are you talking about screentime per episode?

[Soporta]

There were only two episodes he was credited for that he wasn't in. Are you talking about screentime per episode?

I'm talking about the importance of the character. I can think of other actors in that show who had more prominent characters, more screentime and were in as many episodes but didn't get opening credit status. I kept waiting for Callum to do something important. Apart from that time he broke his nose, I can't recall anything that his character actually did, and because he was an actor I recognised, he didn't just fade into the background for me, I was very aware of his non-role in the series.

[Dornish]

I've always thought that HBO billed as Main characters, secondary characters, famous people

Rome: McKidd/Stevenson/Walker, seemingly unintelligible order of actors, special for Purefoy/Hinds

Six Feet Under: Krause/Hall, rest of ensemble, special for Griffiths/Cromwell, guests

Deadwood: Olyphant/McShane/Parker, Alphabetical, special for Boothe

Considering just number of chapters in AGOT I'd go:

Bean/Ehle/Merchant, some ordering of actors, Headey/Dinklage

but accounting for characters showing up in other people's chapters:

Bean/Dinklage/Ehle, actors, Headey