American Politics 16

[Shryke]

The trigger was stupid. It's basically a way to delay the public option long enough for this whole thing to fall out of the limelight and then quietly rape and strangle to death the public option in an alley.

[CloudFlare]

Well, there seems to be a whole lot of Democratic disgust with ACORN.

Getting poor people to vote and all is fine, but the Census is supposed to be a data gathering operation, not a political operation. I think ACORN would have a hard time being impartial.

[Annelise]

The trigger was stupid. It's basically a way to delay the public option long enough for this whole thing to fall out of the limelight and then quietly rape and strangle to death the public option in an alley.

Where did you read this? I'm wondering how they do that, assuming it's not written like swiss cheese in the legislation.

[Shryke]

Well, there seems to be a whole lot of Democratic disgust with ACORN.

Getting poor people to vote and all is fine, but the Census is supposed to be a data gathering operation, not a political operation. I think ACORN would have a hard time being impartial.

Impartial about what?

The only problem with ACORN helping out the census is that the GOP has turned them into such a hueg boogeyman that their presence would hurt the point of the operation since people would refuse to cooperate with the census out of fear that ACORN would later round them up into death camps.

[Annelise]

. I hope I'm proven wrong because I wouldn't be stunned if a trigger were involved in the final legislation.

It all depends how it's written, or so I would think. I mean, they certainly could screw it up and/or intentionally render it an impotent compromise in the drafting. Maybe that's even most likely, but I don't see any reason why it has to be that way. The progressives would have to be the watchdog group, if that's what they go with.

[Shryke]

Here's some stuff on the trigger: http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/06/nelson...er-public-plan/

HEre's some other objections to it: http://www.squarestate.net/diary/8120/spea...a-public-option

Sen. Ben Nelson has proposed a "trigger", where instead of adopting the reform, Congress would set goals for the insurance industry for seven years. As long as the goals were met, there would be no competing public plan. "That's a terrible idea," Dean said, "They will just change their behavior until the trigger runs out and go back to how they were."

[TrackerNeil]

I've heard chatter about a trigger being included for a public option (I believe Sen. Snowe said that's something she would consider as a compromise) but I don't know how .. useful that is. I guess it depends what the trigger/s are, specifically, and what it would enact.

I don't trust triggers, and neither does Timothy Noah. His concern is mine; what happens if the circumstances that would trigger the public option occur and Congress doesn't pull that trigger? Who's going to force them to act?

[Annelise]

Here is Robert Reich's take.

Point taken on the lobbyists, but I don't subscribe to the idea that it would be politically dead in 3-5 years. Or put it this way; only if whatever they do pass actually works. If costs are still going up and a chunk of people are still uninsured, it's going to remain a lively issue.

[Annelise]

I'm worried though that it's only even being proposed as a means to get past the politically difficult public option conundrum.

Oh well yeah, I agree with that. I'm just stewing on the what next, should it end up by the wayside. As near as I can tell, the choice is reconciliation or a 60 vote compromise sans public option, but possibly including a trigger.

[CloudFlare]

Impartial about what?

The only problem with ACORN helping out the census is that the GOP has turned them into such a hueg boogeyman that their presence would hurt the point of the operation since people would refuse to cooperate with the census out of fear that ACORN would later round them up into death camps.

You are right about being impartial, in a way. What can be done with census data? I suppose you could over count liberal areas and under count conservative ones.

But.. why do we need to contract out to a political group for Census duty? Is the current system of using bored retirees not working anymore?

[Andriy Czarchenko]

I've heard chatter about a trigger being included for a public option (I believe Sen. Snowe said that's something she would consider as a compromise) but I don't know how .. useful that is. I guess it depends what the trigger/s are, specifically, and what it would enact.

IIRC rep. Nadler? said the proposed bills all have natural timelimits that basically work like a trigger anyway. All the extra trigger does is stall the progress and make it possible to cancel the whole thing.

[AndyP]

Trigger = Democrats don't have the guts to tell their base it's over.

[Shryke]

You are right about being impartial, in a way. What can be done with census data? I suppose you could over count liberal areas and under count conservative ones.

How? By whom? To what purpose?

Or are you just an insane conspiracy nut?

But.. why do we need to contract out to a political group for Census duty? Is the current system of using bored retirees not working anymore?

Don't they contract it out all the time?

[Annelise]

Trigger = Democrats don't have the guts to tell their base it's over.

Yeah, that is sounding the most likely to me. Unless said chatter is part of the cover to say they tried everything when they go on to reconciliation. :ninja: (I doubt that too).

[TrackerNeil]

Trigger = Democrats don't have the guts to tell their base it's over.

Or...

Trigger = Republicans won't change the status quo under any circumstances.

[Shryke]

I think the Trigger is just someone being clever, trynig to get Republican votes on board by making the bill sound more like a gun.

[Swordfish]

I don't trust triggers, and neither does Timothy Noah. His concern is mine; what happens if the circumstances that would trigger the public option occur and Congress doesn't pull that trigger? Who's going to force them to act?

If they can't be trusted to act on a trigger, they can't be trusted to enact and maintain UHC legislation.

Simple as that.

[Greg]

How? By whom? To what purpose?

Or are you just an insane conspiracy nut?

Census data is used to allocate electoral votes, House representation, and Federal funding. Though I am not saying that anyone IS or WOULD purposefully misrepresent census results, deliberate falsification of Census results could be used to redistrict traditionally Democratic seats out of existence or vice versa, reduce or increase a state's electoral strength, or damage the economy of a district or state that doesn't vote "correctly".

[Shryke]

Census data is used to allocate electoral votes, House representation, and Federal funding. Though I am not saying that anyone IS or WOULD purposefully misrepresent census results, deliberate falsification of Census results could be used to redistrict traditionally Democratic seats out of existence or vice versa, reduce or increase a state's electoral strength, or damage the economy of a district or state that doesn't vote "correctly".

So insane conspiracy theory, gotcha.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Shryke,

Because no political group would ever try to use or manipulate census data to its advantage?