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House Targaryen

GoT Mafia Game 69

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Still quite quiet in here, I thought there would have been more posts in the meantime, possible support for the multiple-alts theory? Though I'm not entirely convinced by this yet; I was a late sign-up following a nice PM from Lany, so there may be others, and this multiple-alt suggestion might be a smokescreen. I don't know if we'll be finding out alt identities at death (mods?) so we have no way of telling for sure until we get more than one dead player with the same puppet master. I remain slightly sceptical.

Maybe it's just that I signed up early, but it seems like we've been waiting a long time to get enough people, and then the game starts and we have twenty. I guess it could have been due to an email request for players, but that's an unusually successful recruiting drive if so.

Well, I have troubles to believe that we have more than 12-14 actual players in this game. On the other side, I also have troubles to believe that there is evil voting block of 8-10 houses, it would be awful. So, possibilities: we might have some zombies controlled by good players; or we might have some non-controlled zombies, who aren't supposed to post at all; or we might have some zombies controlled by mods; or some combo of above.

In first variant, I'd suggest good controllers to confess ASAP.

And either way I suppose we should lynch a low poster today. Preferably non-poster.

Since Greyjoy is voted already, Piper.

So, just to step through this:

a) You're right that zombies could give evil an unreasonably large voting block (even if it's less than 8-10). Of course, it wouldn't be a problem if there were far fewer zombies than you suggest (or if the zombie voting rights were nerfed in some way).

b) Good zombies don't really fit the setting. Other than that there's no reason they shouldn't exist.

c) Zombies who don't post at all would be mod-killed on mass and so would be fairly pointless.

d) I hope there aren't mod-controlled zombies. If you're a zombie controlled by a mod I suggest you reveal. :P

Finally, if you want to vote off a low poster, why avoid voting Greyjoy? There are a couple of reasons to vote the low people and none of them work if you put one vote on each low poster. It won't pressure that poster to post, and it won't get them lynched. A vote on Greyjoy wouldn't have caused a train (it's only the second vote after all). Are you protecting your no-show partner Greyjoy by creating a second no-show vote option?

edit: spelling

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It might be possible for innocent players to have zombie alts. They might have retained more of themselves than the red priests realize - not sure though. The wording seems to imply otherwise. If we do have good zombie alts, how do we use them to our advantage? Do we announce them and use them as cannon fodder? Do zombies die when their 'master' is killed, in which case announcing them is a horrible idea as the FM look elsewhere for targets.

I'm having a hard time believing we jumped up to 20 players in a short time. It's possible I guess, but likely? Probably not.

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What if one of the conditions of the zombie alt (if used) is that they can't vote.

Or only one (or two) zombies can vote per day. If there is more than one zombie per red priest then it doesn't matter if their voting patterns are suspicious (they can be used as canon fodder). Actually, it might help, since it would distract attention from the red priests.

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Is it allowed that one player can control multiple alts? This seems to be abit unfair.

Lets see if I can get this right

- there are red priest

- there are zombies

- they are somehow linked

Could the red priests be the killers and the zombies their symps? And do they know each other?

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If the zombie votes are nerfed in some way, it will make it way harder for us to get a legitimate vote off. They have to be able to vote normally or it screws with the whole balance. Then again, double votes screw with the balance, so ...

This is the only reason I am thinking there is a possibility of good zombies. I can't balance it in my head otherwise.

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Wow. Normally, I would suggest a random lynch of a player with only one post. My guess is that rather than not posting at all, a Red Priest would want to test out a second alt and make a couple of banal posts so as to look "active." Except half of the players have posted nothing but quick zombie jokes or obvious statements like "I agree that twenty players is a lot." Again, not to be all preachy, but I really think we'd make the game much more difficult for the FM by being more active, so that those who aren't active stick out like a sore thumb.

I was thinking about it last night. What's the standard balance for a twenty-player game? About four FM. Maybe five. But if there are two FM controlling two alts, that still means there were eighteen sign-ups. Fine. Ridiculous scenario. There are six evil houses and two FM are juggling three alts each. Still means there were sixteen sign-ups. This game isn't moving at the speed of a sixteen-player game. So yeah, I'm agreeing with Plumm here. There must be something else going on.

And for the record, I don't have a zombie minion (to my knowledge).

But there's no sense wasting more time on set-up discussion. We'll realize within a few days if there's something up with the low posters.

ETA: that was cross-posted with like the entire fourth page.

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Martell - we've had games in the past where players have had more than one alt, or where a mod controlled an alt for brief period (evil mod game) but it is very rare. This game is know to have a twist, so that's why we're considering that zombie alts may be it.

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I'm a little suspicious now of Plumm's request for any good zombie controllers to reveal themselves. While I don't actually think the game setup allows for good zombies, it would not help the innocent faction to have the controllers revealed, as presumably a dead controller would also take the good zombies out of the game. We have no CF so we need the healer to keep the Finder alive as long as possible.

And, as Stonetree said, it was an odd choice to vote Piper if the stated aim was to get rid of a non-poster.

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I was thinking about it last night. What's the standard balance for a twenty-player game? About four FM. Maybe five. But if there are two FM controlling two alts, that still means there were eighteen sign-ups. Fine. Ridiculous scenario. There are six evil houses and two FM are juggling three alts each. Still means there were sixteen sign-ups. This game isn't moving at the speed of a sixteen-player game. So yeah, I'm agreeing with Plumm here. There must be something else going on.

What speed would a 16 player game move at? Not that I'm disagreeing with the premise, but pointing out that that is pretty weak evidence.

Also - want to point out that if FM control more than one alt, they are able to set up some amazing bluffs. Finder partners, false role claim to pull out real role claimants using a throw a way alt, etc ...

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I'm a little suspicious now of Plumm's request for any good zombie controllers to reveal themselves. While I don't actually think the game setup allows for good zombies, it would not help the innocent faction to have the controllers revealed, as presumably a dead controller would also take the good zombies out of the game. We have no CF so we need the healer to keep the Finder alive as long as possible.

And, as Stonetree said, it was an odd choice to vote Piper if the stated aim was to get rid of a non-poster.

Well, presumably the zombie alt would reveal and not the master, but, yeah, there were quite a few odd points in Plumm's analysis.

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Martell - we've had games in the past where players have had more than one alt, or where a mod controlled an alt for brief period (evil mod game) but it is very rare. This game is know to have a twist, so that's why we're considering that zombie alts may be it.

But what is the sense of a mod controlling evil alts? :dunno:

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Good zombies?

Nah, I don't think so. It's just not very logical to use that kind of role.

"Role: You are a good zombie and............"

And what? What is the purpose to have a good zombie?

But what is the sense of a mod controlling evil alts?

Good question. They do know the role distribution and all alts. What prevents them from killing one finder after the other? Or from lynching the healer?

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I wasn't saying the mod-controlled zombies would be evil, just putting that out as an example of weirdness.

(the game was evil mod, the alt was used just so it could get killed on night one)

If the mods are controlling an alt (extremely unlikely IMO) it is for a very specific purpose and should not effect the game in any meaningful way.

Tarth, you dismissed the idea of good zombies, but paused to think of the ramifications of an evil mod-alt? Really?

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Looking back over Plumm (more specifically his post on zombies). I have a question.

... So, possibilities: we might have some zombies controlled by good players; or we might have some non-controlled zombies, who aren't supposed to post at all; or we might have some zombies controlled by mods; or some combo of above.

In first variant, I'd suggest good controllers to confess ASAP.

And either way I suppose we should lynch a low poster today. Preferably non-poster.

Since Greyjoy is voted already, Piper.

Why vote out a non-poster? One of your scenarios is non-controlled zombies which would be a non-poster. That would mean it's not evil, and would be mod-killed soon. So why is it preferable to go for a non-poster at this point?

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I'm a little suspicious now of Plumm's request for any good zombie controllers to reveal themselves. While I don't actually think the game setup allows for good zombies, it would not help the innocent faction to have the controllers revealed, as presumably a dead controller would also take the good zombies out of the game.
I haven't thought about the last. If zombie dies with his controller, my suggestion is bad, agreed.
And, as Stonetree said, it was an odd choice to vote Piper if the stated aim was to get rid of a non-poster.
I wanted some concurention. It's better to try lynching several low posters. Vote analysis, you know.
Why vote out a non-poster? One of your scenarios is non-controlled zombies which would be a non-poster. That would mean it's not evil, and would be mod-killed soon. So why is it preferable to go for a non-poster at this point?
What if the twist includes them not being modkilled?

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