Why do people feel sorry for Theon Greyjoy?

[xythil]

The guy is almost as bad as the Freys. He deserves what he is getting from Bolton. I just don't get why people feel bad for him. He betrayed the family that took care of him and gave him a place of pretty high honor.

[TrueMetis]

The guy is almost as bad as the Freys. He deserves what he is getting from Bolton. I just don't get why people feel bad for him. He betrayed the family that took care of him and gave him a place of pretty high honor.

Dude spoilers tags.

SPOILER: ADWD

In any event I say it's because what Bolton is doing is horrible no matter what Theon did no one deserves to be tortured. Even Catlyn is only out to kill the frey not torture them.

[Alexia]

While I agree with Silent-Stalker in theory, I don't feel that sorry for Theon. He may not "deserve" it but he brought it on himself by being a rotten, egotistical jerk. I disliked Theon from the moment he kicked Gared's head and every chapter with him brought something new to dislike. I was genuinely surprised to find out that he has fans.

[Sunspear]

well I haven't really seen much love for him around here actually, but his situation is more complex than simply being a traitor.

When he first set off for the iron islands he did not go expecting to betray the Starks, in fact he was expecting to be greeted as a hero presenting an alliance with the Starks. What he found was quite different. He was tainted in the eyes of his people, his family and most important to Theon his father for his life with the Starks. They made it very clear that he was no longer one of them. His only chance for redemption in their eyes was to participate in his father's vendetta against the North. He really wasn't in a position to disagree even if he wanted to, he would have been imprisoned at best, killed at worst. Once he landed in the North he did have a chance to switch side, but that would be directly betraying his family, his family by blood. In either case he would be betraying someone he had a duty to, his foster family, who raised him certainly but I can't see him being truly loved by them nor can they assure him his proper lands and titles, if you want to get materialistic about it, or his true family, who he has idolized in memory since he was taken away from and who can give him the rulership of the iron islands if they accept him again. In the end he choose his family by blood, and he is not the first in the series to choose family over was it right, nor the first in history to try to please a father who doesn't care for him by betraying those who do.

Theon never really took joy in betraying the Starks either, it was just the only path to choose if he wanted his family to ever accept him. I think his position is one that people can sympathize with, even if you abhor the choice he made. I think he would get much more sympathy than he does, if he wasn't an arrogant colossal jerk.

[The Non-Human]

I actually feel sorry for Theon. He was put between the proverbial sword and the wall. In a sense I find his situation is comparable to Jon's. They both lived with the Starks, but they were never at home there, and both had to make a hard decision. Indeed, Jon was more fortunate.

So while am not a fan of him, I cant really bring myself to hate him either.

[gollum]

He betrayed the family that took care of him and gave him a place of pretty high honor.

You make it sound like he was a poor orphan the Starks took in out of the goodness of their hearts. Ned took him from his home as a hostage when he was ten years old. The Starks treated Theon better than the Lannisters treated Sansa but he doesn't owe the Starks loyalty any more than Sansa owes the Lannisters.

[Merrett Frey]

I actually feel sorry for Theon. He was put between the proverbial sword and the wall. In a sense I find his situation is comparable to Jon's. They both lived with the Starks, but they were never at home there, and both had to make a hard decision. Indeed, Jon was more fortunate.

So while am not a fan of him, I cant really bring myself to hate him either.

That is very well put.

I think one of the reasons people hate Theon is that we are essentially told to in the first chapter of the series. Granted, it's a biased POV, but he comes across as very unlikable and first impressions tend to stick.

Then again, there's Jaime, but it's easier to come to understand Jaime when he makes the occasional choice to do something good.

[Prince Bran]

I feel a little sorry for Theon. No one ever really loved him. Except maybe Dagmer Cleftjaw in his own way, but he was taken from that world and raised by Ned Stark. Ned was an honorable man, but he wasn't particularly loving towards Theon, and it seems as though (according to Theon, anyway) his attempts at fathering the boy were uninspiring. So he grows up not able to relate to things in a healthy way. He clings to arrogance, and a view of himself as better and more clever than others (the reason why he's always smiling -- his private joke is the rest of the world), when he really has little reason to hold such opinions of himself. I would argue that he displays a certain low cunning, as Martin might put it, but Theon's problem is that he doesn't really understand people and the world, just thinks he does.

He's expects the people of Winterfell to submit to him because they know him, and because he's shown himself to be powerful, he has the name of a great house, and so (by virtue of his power and name) declares himself the Lord of Winterfell. Of course, it could never work. Perhaps Theon thinks that being fair will win him love, and he really is quite lenient (relative to how other Greyjoys would handle the same situation), but what he fails to realize is that it isn't his land, and they aren't his people. I think he soon realizes that he'll only be able to rule through fear, as evidenced by his increasing frustration at the lack of cooperation by his subjects in Winterfell.

I think the following quote from ACoK, between Dagmer and Theon is the main reason why I have sympathy (well, some -- not very much) for him:

"You take this business too hard, boy. It is only that your lord father does not know you. With your brothers dead and you taken by the wolves, your sister was his solace. He learned to rely on her, and she has never failed him."

"Nor have I. The Starks knew my worth. I was one of Brynden Blackfish's picked scouts, and I charged with the first wave in the Whispering Wood. I was that close to crossing swords with the Kingslayer himself." Theon held his hands two feet apart. "Daryn Hornwood came between us, and died for it."

It's just such a perfect set up. Here is Theon, pouring his heart out about why he deserves recognition, bearing in mind that Eddard Stark never (or certainly rarely) praised him -- indeed, even Robb (who he says treated him brotherly) scolded him upon shooting the wildling who had been holding Bran captive. I think Theon just wanted recognition. He wanted to be valued by his peers. And he has always felt as an outsider looking in. In the quote above, he's so proud of almost crossing swords with the Kingslayer, a feat the Ironborn care nothing for (due to a disdain of mainland feats), and the great irony is that his betrayal of Robb ensures that he loses the one person (Robb) who started to see him as a valuable peer worthy of trust. Which, ya know, sort of makes me lose the sympathy I argued for on his behalf earlier, because his ego and arrogance end up outweighing the part of him that wants recognition in the eyes of peers. :)

SPOILER: ADwD

What's extra ironic is that Ramsay Bolton strips Theon of his very identity in the spoiler chapter. So, Theon had been an arrogant, egotistical ass who is going to be utterly degraded physically, mentally, and socially, who will probably be devoid of an ego, as Reek exists to serve. It's a perfect way to punish Theon's cardinal sin, while perhaps eventually providing a vehicle for his redemption.

[Guest Other-in-law]

I actually feel sorry for Theon.

While I can certainly feel a bit of sympathy for his impossible situation with regard to his family and foster family, this is a man who murdered two children...very possibly his own sons, since he admitted to cuckolding their presumptive father....to spare himself some embarassment. And then he also murdered his own men who served him while doing so, so that there would be no witnesses (except that he did leave one witness at least, who later came back to bite him in the ass). What sympathy there was evaporated with that disgraceful crime.

But then, there's even yet room for some compassion since:

SPOILER: aDwD

NOBODY should have to suffer tortures and flaying.

[The Marquis de Leech]

this is a man who murdered two children...

Ramsay Bolton's idea, not Theon's. Ramsay was Theon's only hope by that point - it was just unlucky that Ramsay also happened to be the biggest psychopath in the North.

very possibly his own sons, since he admitted to cuckolding their presumptive father....

Theon's too young for him to be the father of the first child. The other one is possible, but I think it's unlikely to be intended by GRRM (who IIRC just called the theory an "interesting idea", but nothing more).

And then he also murdered his own men who served him while doing so, so that there would be no witnesses

And felt thoroughly guilty about it. Theon doesn't kill people because he enjoys it; he kills people because, rightly or wrongly, he can see no other way out of his predicament.

[cravenravenkeeper]

Theon's too young for him to be the father of the first child. The other one is possible, but I think it's unlikely to be intended by GRRM (who IIRC just called the theory an "interesting idea", but nothing more).

Wait....you mean the millers kids? or the starks?

[Guest Other-in-law]

Ramsay Bolton's idea, not Theon's. Ramsay was Theon's only hope by that point - it was just unlucky that Ramsay also happened to be the biggest psychopath in the North.

That makes him less vile than Ramsay, which is faint enough praise. It doesn't absolve him of responsibility for ordering it.

Theon's too young for him to be the father of the first child. The other one is possible, but I think it's unlikely to be intended by GRRM (who IIRC just called the theory an "interesting idea", but nothing more).

Theon was about 22 in aGoT and Bran was 7, so he would be about 15? Considering the Miller's Wife was his first (iirc), that doesn't sound too young to me. Is there any more precise information that proves it one way or the other? And I wouldn't consider that "interesting idea" to rule the theory ou, it seems to me that GRRM prefers to err on the side of holding his cards very close to his chest on thses matters.

And felt thoroughly guilty about it. Theon doesn't kill people because he enjoys it; he kills people because, rightly or wrongly, he can see no other way out of his predicament.

He still falls well on the wrong side of the despicable line, to me. Cowardice may be a better excuse than sadism, but that doesn't make it good.

[Mystery Knight]

well I haven't really seen much love for him around here actually, but his situation is more complex than simply being a traitor.

When he first set off for the iron islands he did not go expecting to betray the Starks, in fact he was expecting to be greeted as a hero presenting an alliance with the Starks. What he found was quite different. He was tainted in the eyes of his people, his family and most important to Theon his father for his life with the Starks. They made it very clear that he was no longer one of them. His only chance for redemption in their eyes was to participate in his father's vendetta against the North. He really wasn't in a position to disagree even if he wanted to, he would have been imprisoned at best, killed at worst. Once he landed in the North he did have a chance to switch side, but that would be directly betraying his family, his family by blood. In either case he would be betraying someone he had a duty to, his foster family, who raised him certainly but I can't see him being truly loved by them nor can they assure him his proper lands and titles, if you want to get materialistic about it, or his true family, who he has idolized in memory since he was taken away from and who can give him the rulership of the iron islands if they accept him again. In the end he choose his family by blood, and he is not the first in the series to choose family over was it right, nor the first in history to try to please a father who doesn't care for him by betraying those who do.

Theon never really took joy in betraying the Starks either, it was just the only path to choose if he wanted his family to ever accept him. I think his position is one that people can sympathize with, even if you abhor the choice he made. I think he would get much more sympathy than he does, if he wasn't an arrogant colossal jerk.

This is perfect Sunspear. I cuoldn't have said it half so well and I completely agree with everything. Bravo sir. Bravo

[DomDayne]

It's a tough one here. Theon wen to the Iron islands with the best of intentions for the Starks. He wanted to get his father to attack the westerlands... even if he wasnted to make himsefla king, I still don't think he would have wished any harm on the starks. He never wanted to hurt anyone at Winterfell but they wouldn't accept him there... we hear several times from his thoughts that he is the one trying to save the girls from being reaped yet they hate him... a few bad choices and a lot of misdirected hate. But either way i think he's getting what he desevered for keeping Reek alive.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Theon was about 22 in aGoT and Bran was 7, so he would be about 15? Considering the Miller's Wife was his first (iirc), that doesn't sound too young to me. Is there any more precise information that proves it one way or the other? And I wouldn't consider that "interesting idea" to rule the theory ou, it seems to me that GRRM prefers to err on the side of holding his cards very close to his chest on thses matters.

Theon is 19 in AGOT, so he'd have had to be 12 when the older kid was born (and thus likely 11 at the time of conception). For an 11 year-old to be cuckolding multiple marriages (the Miller's wife wasn't his first - the Brewer's wife was) is pretty far-fetched.

[Krafus]

Although I wasn't happy about Theon turning against the Starks, it wasn't until he had the miller's sons murdered to cover up his failure that I lost all sympathy for him and he joined the Boltons and the Freys at at Red Wedding on my "I hope they all die in slow, excruciating agony" list. I don't give a damn about Theon's issues from being cut off from his family, or how it was Ramsay who came up with the idea of killing the two children. Once Theon decided to go forward with those two murders, he crossed a line from which there is no return.

[Renasko]

Fuck Theon.

SPOILER: SoS

The dick destroyed Winterfell.

[Fleeing Finn]

And felt thoroughly guilty about it. Theon doesn't kill people because he enjoys it; he kills people because, rightly or wrongly, he can see no other way out of his predicament.

Actually, he didn't feel guilty killing his own men. When Theon dreams in ACoK about all the innocent people he's killed he doesn't dream of his men and it's made pretty clear he doesn't care what he did to them.

At least Gelmarr did not haunt Theon's sleep

He did feel a bit guilty of blaming it on Farlen and having him executed though.

ETA: Killing innocent children because someone else thinks it's a great idea doesn't make it more despicable, does it?

[Indigo Cloak]

Fuck Theon.

SPOILER: SoS

The dick destroyed Winterfell.

SPOILER: SoS

I'm pretty sure that was Ramsey Bolton

[Lark the Sisterman]

Well.. I blame Robb. It was a colossus stupidity to send Theon of all men to plead with Balon. I can have sympathy to the blunder he made with the Freys, the romantic fool that I am. But this is unforgivable. He had a sound advice from his mother but he chose to ignore her. ALWAYS LISTEN TO YOUR MOTHER, KIDS.