Who poisoned Joffrey?

[Bippy]

The poison couldn't be in the wine at that point because Margaery was drinking from the chalice together with Joff. She couldn't slip the poison in it, either, because everyone was looking at them. The only occasion when the poisoning could take place was when Joff and chalice were separated, and that was during cutting the pie.

could this have been predicted ahead of time?

If you dissolve a dark purple crystal, its particles will colour the liquid - ever tried dissolving hypermanganium?

Don't know about hypermanganium; I was thinking of potassium permanganate. But my world's not populated by poisoners from Asshai, so I won't assume that a magical poison would necessarily work exactly the same way as a crystal in the lab.

Plus, we don't need Pycelle's word on which poison it was, we saw it at work in the prologue - it contracts the muscles of the throat and suffocates the victim, works almost instantaneously and is used dissolved in red wine to mask the colour.

Ok. What happens when you mix prussic acid with lemon sauce?

Seriously, the fact that we saw strangler in the prologue is the only thing that in my view supports the idea that it was used at the Purple Wedding. It's too silly a red herring otherwise. Edit: But if it was the strangler, then the damn pie is too silly a red herring.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Seriously, the fact that we saw strangler in the prologue is the only thing that in my view supports the idea that it was used at the Purple Wedding. It's too silly a red herring otherwise. Edit: But if it was the strangler, then the damn pie is too silly a red herring.

Well why do you think we were introduced to the Strangler, if not for it to be important and/or used later?

"I believe this gun was fired only because it was mentioned as sitting out on the table earlier in the story."

[Arisea]

Everyone in this forum have read the books?...because I haven't yet, just watched the show. I didn't know anything about him being poisoned, so this is like a huge spoiler to me. Not cool.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Everyone in this forum have read the books?...because I haven't yet, just watched the show. I didn't know anything about him being poisoned, so this is like a huge spoiler to me. Not cool.

Not to be That Guy but there's an entire sub-section of the forum that's just for the show and labeled as such, which is where you should have stayed if you didn't want to be spoiled. Not our problem. Anything in the General sub-section of the novel-related forum assumes that if you're in this part of the forum, you're up to date on your reading. If you're not, you shouldn't be in this part of the board. This section is clearly labeled as having to do with the novels, not the TV series.

[Ygrain]

could this have been predicted ahead of time?

Predicted, not, staged, yes. Marg was whispering with Joff the whole time. Given the incident with the jousting dwarves, what would be easier than goading Joff into something like that?

Don't know about hypermanganium; I was thinking of potassium permanganate. But my world's not populated by poisoners from Asshai, so I won't assume that a magical poison would necessarily work exactly the same way as a crystal in the lab.

A lot of ASOIAF works like RL world, or at least present a believable suspension of disbelief, so I don't see a reason why a purple colour shouldn't produce a purple liquid when dissolved.

Ok. What happens when you mix prussic acid with lemon sauce?

Did you have a particular reason for choosing a colourless substance, if you were trying to prove a point?

Seriously, the fact that we saw strangler in the prologue is the only thing that in my view supports the idea that it was used at the Purple Wedding. It's too silly a red herring otherwise. Edit: But if it was the strangler, then the damn pie is too silly a red herring.

Ah. So, we were shown what happens with a warg's soul after his death for no particular reason, hm? I see.

And BTW, the pie was not meant as a red herring for us, it was what the characters quite logically thought when they saw someone suffocate to death after eating it.

[Bippy]

Predicted, not, staged, yes. Marg was whispering with Joff the whole time. Given the incident with the jousting dwarves, what would be easier than goading Joff into something like that?

Something like what? Pouring it over Tyrion? But is it not agreed the poison was not in the wine then?

Did you have a particular reason for choosing a colourless substance, if you were trying to prove a point?

Yes. Strangler appears to be intended to be similar to cyanide poisoning.

Ah. So, we were shown what happens with a warg's soul after his death for no particular reason, hm? I see.

Dunno. Guess we'll know when we read the next book.

[Arisea]

Not to be That Guy but there's an entire sub-section of the forum that's just for the show and labeled as such, which is where you should have stayed if you didn't want to be spoiled. Not our problem. Anything in the General sub-section of the novel-related forum assumes that if you're in this part of the forum, you're up to date on your reading. If you're not, you shouldn't be in this part of the board. This section is clearly labeled as having to do with the novels, not the TV series.

Ohh sorry, didn't notice that. Even if it's in the Novel section, it still says "General discussion of the series". Perhaps they should change that.

Sadly I already saw two spoilers (only the topics title, I didn't read the posts), so it's really a shame. Perhaps I should just go and read the books.

[Bippy]

Perhaps I should just go and read the books.

I'm curious: are you happy now that you've read this thread? I mean, knowing the event that we're discussing?

[Ygrain]

Something like what? Pouring it over Tyrion? But is it not agreed the poison was not in the wine then?

It doesn't really matter if the wine was poured over Tyrion; the important factor was to get wine near Tyrion and make sure that he handled it somehow - if he was to be framed for the murder, then he had to have had an opportunity. He couldn't be convincingly accused if he was seated a dozen seats from Joffrey and never got anywhere close.

When Joffrey pours the wine, Tyrion refills the chalice and Joffrey drinks; the wine is still perfectly harmless. Then, Margaery comes in tow with Olenna and the pie is cut; after that, Joff comes back, eats the pie, drinks the wine and starts to suffocate.

Sadly I already saw two spoilers (only the topics title, I didn't read the posts), so it's really a shame. Perhaps I should just go and read the books.

Definitely do, you miss a lot if you only watch the show, there are many intriguing subplots which never make it to the screen.

[Arisea]

I'm curious: are you happy now that you've read this thread? I mean, knowing the event that we're discussing?

I haven't read the thread, only the title (I don't want more spoilers). But well I've always wanted Joffrey to die, so I am happy about that. Although poison seems weak, he should have gotten a worse death.

[Ygrain]

I haven't read the thread, only the title (I don't want more spoilers). But well I've always wanted Joffrey to die, so I am happy about that. Although poison seems weak, he should have gotten a worse death.

Oh, wait till you read it, I'm sure you will find the scene quite satisfactory :-)

[Zar Lannister]

LF planted the poison in the net. Olenna took it out. Margaery slipped it in the chalice. And Allerie blamed it on the pigeon pie. Surely the ladies suspesct Sansa is with LF in the Vale. What, if anything will they do with that info?

The problem with Margaery slipping it into the Chalice is that she was always being looked at, wasn't she? I think the cue happened when she was called away and I'm more tempted to believe Garlan is the cunning culprit.

[Mrs_Darcy]

The timing of Littlefinger's rescue of Sansa is a tad too convenient to just be a coincidence. And I Also believe that QoT /hairnet was the delivery system for the poison (regardless of which Tyrell actually did the deed)

But I think that what makes this all a little counter-intuitive, is that there was nothing to connect LF and QoT (that I can remember) before the wedding. They are not --until those events-- people we would have thought to equate with one another.

Well, Littlefinger was in Bitterbridge to broker the marriage between Joffrey and Margaery. I think, that the plan to kill Joffrey was hatched at that time

[Lost Melnibonean]

The problem with Margaery slipping it into the Chalice is that she was always being looked at, wasn't she? I think the cue happened when she was called away and I'm more tempted to believe Garlan is the cunning culprit.

More compelling if it's just the ladies taking care their own, no? Kinda like the Mormonts in skirts.

[Bippy]

More compelling if it's just the ladies taking care their own, no? Kinda like the Mormonts in skirts.

Yeah, but Garlan's cute and nice and we want him to get his share of murdering :cool4:

Edit: I went back and reread the chapter yesterday and I'll give you wine poisoners this: I had forgotten that Joff drinks the wine, eats a bite, drinks the wine, coughs, etc. It's so fast between the pie and the second sip of wine that it doesn't account for any delay in action at all.

But also: That chalice just SITS there, well out of Tyrion's reach, for a long time, and it is out of his sight while he's stuck under the table. If there was poison in there, anyone could have put it in.

[Ygrain]

More compelling if it's just the ladies taking care their own, no? Kinda like the Mormonts in skirts.

Aye, I prefer the idea of the Tyrell ladies acting on their own, as well - which is why I always point out that Lady Leonette is sitting right there, as well. A dainty pregnant woman, who might ever suspect her?

[Sweet-N-SourRobin]

Yeah, but Garlan's cute and nice and we want him to get his share of murdering :cool4:

Also, if Garlan is the triggerman, then "The Gallant Knight" rescued "the fair maiden in distress" from being forced to marry "the evil ogre."

A classic trope, being given the merciless GRRM twist.

[aedalia]

I have a question: why did the stranger-amethyst have to be snuck in on Sansa's hair net? I feel like that leaves a lot open to chance. What if she put it on and thought it was ugly and decided Dontos was out of his mind? Whoever the poisoner was could have brought it in all on his or her own and that would have been much more direct.

Whoever did it wanted Sansa to figure out that the poison was in her hairnet, I think. But why? And since they wanted her to think that, it makes me wonder if she was figuring out the truth or a lie?

[Bippy]

Whoever did it wanted Sansa to figure out that the poison was in her hairnet, I think. But why? And since they wanted her to think that, it makes me wonder if she was figuring out the truth or a lie?

YES.

[Light a wight tonight]

You people! I was looking at the recent posts here and all of a sudden I was hearing Eric Burdon's Spill the Wine.