Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson, The Gathering Storm

[dalThor]

It's information I wouldn't have otherwise known and was apparently spoiler tagged prior to it's being mentioned with out them so - spoiler.

[Werthead]

Yes, it was a spoiler and has been edited as such, just as saying there is no Dany in AFFC before AFFC came out was a spoiler at the time.

[kissoon]

Mesaana's secret identity

I was under the impression there was enough clues to find this out. Now I haven't re-read these books in a few years and can't really be bothered to look it up, so correct me if I'm wrong, but when Mesaana was addressing Alviarin in that silvery cloak of illusion thingy she raised her finger to her lips in a thoughtful way, and Alviarin remarks to herself that she has seen that somewhere before. Now when I first read that part I immediately thought back to when Elaida first took over as Amyrlin she had that council made up of the sisters who helped her gain it, and I remember a sister using that exact same expression, I think she was a dreamy brown maybe.

I always thought that was a big clue.

[Guest Ro_]

Elida makes the finger to lip tapping gesture. The other clues were the color of the dress and its embroidery. IIRC, one dress was bronze, with black embroidery so that could be the Brown (Danielle, iirc). Alviaran *does* see Masaana's face when that big fade shows up and doesn't recognize her.

[Gabriele]

If Tor had picked me to write this, instead of some published, best-selling fantasy author (weird choice if you ask me, but to each their own), I would have opened the prologue something like this ...

He wasn't a bestselling author when he was chosen to finish WoT, though. He was on his way to become a midlister, with a few books out that sold enough copies for the publisher to give him new contracts. The WoT hype kicked his sales, brought his name into public awareness.

Could he have managed to become a bestselling author without that kick? Maybe, after all people who bought his books because of WoT keep buying them which means he has a growing reader base. But one thing is sure, it would have taken him longer to get there.

Well, he works hard enough on that WoT stuff to deserve a few cookies in form of sales. :)

[Werthead]

He wasn't a bestselling author when he was chosen to finish WoT, though. He was on his way to become a midlister, with a few books out that sold enough copies for the publisher to give him new contracts. The WoT hype kicked his sales, brought his name into public awareness.

Could he have managed to become a bestselling author without that kick? Maybe, after all people who bought his books because of WoT keep buying them which means he has a growing reader base. But one thing is sure, it would have taken him longer to get there.

Well, he works hard enough on that WoT stuff to deserve a few cookies in form of sales. :)

He was doing well beforehand. Certainly people were talking quite a lot about the first two Mistborn books when they came out and the second just missed the NYT bestseller list, I believe. The third, after it was announced he was working on WoT, did hit it, but it's debatable if he picked up a massive boost from the WoT readership or not, at least not on that scale. It did look like more like a naturally building sale-base.

[Gabriele]

Could be. I only heard about him in the WoT context, but I live in a country where you don't find many English books on the shelves, and I don't buy translations. Plus, German Fantasy is a rare beast, most of what you get are translations. Or Hohlbein. :rolleyes: But that's another topic.

Westeros and those review blogs have done some pretty bad things to my TBR pile. ;)

[fionwe1987]

I've finished the book! Hurrah for ignorant college bookstores!

Having finished, I must say I strongly disagree with Pat. And it is not merely a matter of opinion. The concentration on secondary plotlines that he saw was simply not there, except perhaps with Aviendha. It took her entirely too long to come to her senses.

For the rest, many secondary plotlines, especially among the Aes Sedai, are treated only lightly. Their resolutions are swift, and in many cases, satisfyingly so.

Yes, some long expected meetings, foreshadowings and fights take place swiftly, but the swiftness was accompanied by drastic character changes, making them more dramatic. Even events we could anticipate turned out to be fresh when read because of how they were carefully constructed to add to each theme, leading to a dénouement that is satisfying intellectually and emotionally in both of the major storylnes in the book.

Surprising, however, was the underground nature of the Shadow's tactics in this book. While the prologue gave us the idea that the Shadow planned to harry Rand and break him emotionally, a surface reading of the events in the book show no connection between those plans and what happens to Rand.

But if one were to connect the events in chapter 22/23 (both in terms of escapes offered and incomplete thefts), the debatable death of a major antagonist and the cataclysmic disasters that almost occurred in the final chapters, the hand of the Shadow can be seen. The Shadow may have played its subtlest game yet, and I don't think anyone can disagree that it came damn close to success. Terrifyingly close.

One aspect that was satisfying was the nice build up of parallels between Egwene and Rand in their path to achieve leadership and quell conflict among their allies. At the end, one can see impending conflict between the two, but clear signs of a meeting ground as well. The chief protagonists are ready to march to Tarmon Gaidon, and that was satisfying.

Combining satisfaction and surprise was the whole deal with Verin. I love RJ for showing that while curiosity and the wish for knowledge can undoubtedly harm, the same, in a judicious mind, can cause greater damage to the Shadow than brute force and open conflict. Among fans, at least, the Brown may match and exceed the adulation the Blues generally get. None too few faces (including my own) are going to be red with shame when we see how far from the truth our ideas of what Verin planned sometimes were.

One major complaint, though. Many tertiary characters like Setalle Anan, Janya, Logain, etc, who were generally very vocal, though not always important, were pointedly absent, despite at least some of them being in the retinue of the major characters. It was a baffling lapse.

But overall, a throwback to the earlier brilliance of the series, matching, and at times exceeding, the characterization and thematic depth we see in books 4-7. There were some excellent pieces of prose too, not flowery or lyrical, but very apt for the mood the story wished to convey. Some of the later chapters had some scenes that were visually beautiful, standing as strong metaphors for the themes in motion. If ever a movie were to be made of the books in the series, I suspect that scenes in the latter half of the book will make for some memorable filming (though god forbit that should happen).

Give it a shot.

[Sword of the Morning]

Fionwe,

Thanks for the review.

THIS is what I'm talking about. A review by a fan for fans of the Wheel of Time. THIS is what is relevant for me and a review I can respect.

Just from some superficial readings of various reviews from fans I could tell this is going to be a special book.

I am interested: when reading the novel, did you ever get "distracted" by the different voice of Sanderson vs Jordan or did you just get caught up in the story and the characters? In other words, did the characters "live" for you and ring true to what they had been in the past 11 books?

Things look good, now let's knock Dan Brown off the top spot on the bestseller lists and keep the Wheel of Time streak of #1 debuts alive!

Dennis

[Maia]

Well, this sounds exciting indeed and like what I have hoped for. Thanks, Fionwe.

Why, oh why am I not living in the Netherlands?! We are never getting any major anglophone releases early...

[Rhom]

Things look good, now let's knock Dan Brown off the top spot on the bestseller lists and keep the Wheel of Time streak of #1 debuts alive!

That'll be interesting to see if it can happen. Brown definitely appeals to a broader audience than WoT... but the anticipation of this book and the dedication of the fanbase is probably a bigger factor.

[kuenjato]

unbelievable.

On one side, we have the guy who gave KoD a 10/10 saying its underwhelming.

On the other, the apologists are drumming their feet and waving their arms and shouting it's the best damn thing from Lord of Chaos, maybe Shadow Rising.

I'm waiting for Wert. and Dylanfan. to arrive with some balance to this...quandary.

[MaesterLuwin]

Because, you know, if you say anything bad about a series ever, you're not a "real" fan. :D

[Lord Biff]

I've finished the book! Hurrah for ignorant college bookstores!

One major complaint, though. Many tertiary characters like Setalle Anan, Janya, Logain, etc, who were generally very vocal, though not always important, were pointedly absent, despite at least some of them being in the retinue of the major characters. It was a baffling lapse.

That's an interesting complaint since Setalle Anan made Elayne and Nyn's plotline in Ebou Dar bearable and added needed support to Mat, dealing as he was with the culture shock of his bride-to-be's full bore support for slavery.

And Logain is one of biggest reasons I could even stand Rand's chapters at all in the last two books.

The man's turned into the biggest prick on Earth, he apparently trusts Taim more than Logain, and somehow fails to recognize the idea that Dreadlords don't just magically appear, demonstrating he's a moron. Logain adds some much needed WTF Dude to Rand's life.

I'd say that's a gaping hole, rather than just a complaint, but I'll withhold judgment until tomorrow morning.

However, I should say, I've always really liked the tertiary characters, because they make the main POVs better. I can't stand a lot of the secondary characters, who get way too many POVs, and have made the last four books a slow moving trainwreck.

[Maia]

unbelievable.

On one side, we have the guy who gave KoD a 10/10 saying its underwhelming.

But then, I never understood why Pat liked KoD so much. I mean, sure, relief from the conclusion of 3 lengthy and boring sidetrack storylines (well, 2 for those who adore Mat enough to watch him essentially picking his nose for 3 volumes) must have been great, but these storylines also occupied most of the book. I am currently re-reading it and it is definitely a bit of a chore. Worse than ACOS, leave alone books 1-6.

[End of Disc One]

But then, I never understood why Pat liked KoD so much. I mean, sure, relief from the conclusion of 3 lengthy and boring sidetrack storylines (well, 2 for those who adore Mat enough to watch him essentially picking his nose for 3 volumes) must have been great, but these storylines also occupied most of the book. I am currently re-reading it and it is definitely a bit of a chore. Worse than ACOS, leave alone books 1-6.

I agree, KoD definitely ranks after ACoS and before books 8-10. There's a lot of awesome in the second half but the first half is slow as hell. I think Pat was smoking some pretty good weed when he read it, affecting his experience.

[Lord Biff]

Because, you know, if you say anything bad about a series ever, you're not a "real" fan. :D

Which is why I stay away from my sports teams' fan forums. :P

[Lord Biff]

But then, I never understood why Pat liked KoD so much. I mean, sure, relief from the conclusion of 3 lengthy and boring sidetrack storylines (well, 2 for those who adore Mat enough to watch him essentially picking his nose for 3 volumes) must have been great, but these storylines also occupied most of the book. I am currently re-reading it and it is definitely a bit of a chore. Worse than ACOS, leave alone books 1-6.

What's worst about Mat's is that, narrative-wise, it made the most sense for Tuon to have appeared in POD, perhaps towards the end, and make POD a longer book, instead of the short piece of crap that it was, since that's the main Seanchan vs Rand book.

Then the storyline of the kidnapping could have been handled pretty much all in WH, rather than drawn out for three books.

Frankly, the last four books have been steaming piles of shit into which a few precious stones have been flung.

[fionwe1987]

Fionwe,

Thanks for the review.

THIS is what I'm talking about. A review by a fan for fans of the Wheel of Time. THIS is what is relevant for me and a review I can respect.

Just from some superficial readings of various reviews from fans I could tell this is going to be a special book.

For me, it was Dylanfanatics positive review that was most convincing. And Leigh Butlers. One a fan, another not even close.

Take mine with a grain of salt because I am easier to convince on a WoT book. The plot mattered less to me than the themes and the characters.

However, tGS does not suffer in terms of plotting or pace. Not enough to be worth a mention.

I am interested: when reading the novel, did you ever get "distracted" by the different voice of Sanderson vs Jordan or did you just get caught up in the story and the characters? In other words, did the characters "live" for you and ring true to what they had been in the past 11 books?

Siuan and Mat seemed a bit off. Not in their behavior, but in the way they thought and spoke. Maybe because they use more colorful language than most. But it wasn't so distracting as to spoil the moment. Especially not one Mat chapter that gave me the creeps.

Things look good, now let's knock Dan Brown off the top spot on the bestseller lists and keep the Wheel of Time streak of #1 debuts alive!

I hope that happens. BS and team Jordan deserve it.

[fionwe1987]

unbelievable.

On one side, we have the guy who gave KoD a 10/10 saying its underwhelming.

On the other, the apologists are drumming their feet and waving their arms and shouting it's the best damn thing from Lord of Chaos, maybe Shadow Rising.

I'm waiting for Wert. and Dylanfan. to arrive with some balance to this...quandary.

I wouldn't call Dylanfanatic an apologist. Yet he calls it one of the best epic fantasies he read this year...