Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson, The Gathering Storm

[Terez]

Yeah, that's pretty funny.

Though I can' for the life of me understand Pat's dismissal of the whole male a'dam event. I thought it was great, one of the most pivotal chapters in the series. Pat saw a quick and forgettable use of the a'dam, ignored everything else, and wrote the chapter off.

To each his own, I guess.

I was anticipating the other events in this chapter more than the use of the male a'dam - I didn't expect that to be used again at all, and it never occurred to me that the abandonment of it as a plot device should bother me...

I was in OH FVCK mode at the end of that chapter, mostly because of the weapon used. Knew it was coming, but not that fast...

I really loved it, Cser. But if I remember correctly, you have a problem with Sanderson? I think he did a really good job of maintaining the WoT 'feel'. It wasn't perfect, but I don't think anyone really expected anything close to perfect. Even RJ wasn't perfect. :)

Though I am also one of those weirdos that like Crossroads. Yeah, it was a slow book, and I noticed that, but I still liked the book.

In any case, the action for this book is fantastic, I think. A couple of things could have been written a bit differently to suit my tastes, but I am a HCFF, so I enjoyed the hell out of it for purely plot resolution reasons. There were some long-awaited things happening in this book. VERY long-awaited. And some very nice surprises! I miss RJ's prose (though I apparently have better dress-description-skimming skillz than most people), but I was quite satisfied with BS's for the most part.

Awesome book.

[Poobah]

I'm not done with the book yet, but I'm getting there. I'm enjoying it but I am reading it as a fan and not looking at it as a critic; I'm still going "yay things that are happening that I hadn't read happen before" or "ffs Gawyn go die in a fire or something" and not looking at more important things.

Even so I'm becoming increasingly convinced that it was a bad idea to pick Brandon Sanderson to write this. He's a fan. That's the problem. It's just as Sword of the Morning said, to him "there are no secondary characters, no plotlines of lesser importance, no detail to small or drab or boring" and that's a major problem. As a writer you can murder your own 'little darlings' although I'd guess Robert Jordan never did. But as a fan... And I suspect there was little in the way of editing going on with this book with regards to cutting anything, especially given the in-fucking-sane £20 RRP which more-or-less destroys any claims Tor, Harriet, Brandon or any other apologist for the three books thing had going. Brandon won't cut anything because he's a huge fan and he loves every single little minutia and Tor don't give a shit because if he writes loads of grade-A bloat they can make sure they're getting 3 nice solid door-stoppers to milk for every last penny.

Even reading with a fan's eyes I can see so much in this book I'd cut, maybe it's my inner editor, or the distant echoes of my favourite old history teacher telling me to be more concise and get to the damn point instead of rambling unnecessarily as even now I still do. Regardless even though I like this book as a fan and stuff which interests me as a fan is happening... well, I can still see bloat everywhere, scenes I'd cut or cut down, chapters I'd merge to move things along. The kind of stuff which would have made this a two book finale.

[Guest Ro_]

I suspect I was on the good shit when I ordered the book from amazon CANADA!! WTF? Too late to cancel the sale so I will have to wait til next week to read it. I am a failed fan. :lol:

With some authors, the rambling on is part of the journey and I appreciate it quite a lot - think Tad Williams. Other authors don't have the gift of making those extra ramblings interesting and part of the story. I have been slammed over and over again for critizing the editing in these books. Sometimes couples work together well and sometimes you end up with WoT. When I read WoT, the latter books, I feel like I am reading commercials to get to the story, just like TV. Its really annoying.

Ah well, maybe I will go read some of the book in B&N before my copy gets here. Be dammed if I buy two copies.

[kcf]

I really don't think that has anything do with Sanderson. I imagine that Jordan passed on list of the characters who die and generally how they die. RJ has really painted himself into a corner from the beginning - various visions and such show that pretty much all the good guys have to survive until at least very close to the end.

It is annoying and unrealistic that the good guys have managed to kill several of the most bad ass, evil bastards (supposedly), yet the bad guys (who are supposedly winning) can't manage to kill even a relatively minor good guy. Basically, I've moved past this - WOT isn't a part of the new 'gritty' series, good guys stay alive and bad guys die, and I expect that the ending will be a fairly happy one, with very little bitter to the sweet. I've decided that's fine too and I'll enjoy for what it is.

[End of Disc One]

I'm not done with the book yet, but I'm getting there. I'm enjoying it but I am reading it as a fan and not looking at it as a critic; I'm still going "yay things that are happening that I hadn't read happen before" or "ffs Gawyn go die in a fire or something" and not looking at more important things.

Even so I'm becoming increasingly convinced that it was a bad idea to pick Brandon Sanderson to write this. He's a fan. That's the problem. It's just as Sword of the Morning said, to him "there are no secondary characters, no plotlines of lesser importance, no detail to small or drab or boring" and that's a major problem. As a writer you can murder your own 'little darlings' although I'd guess Robert Jordan never did. But as a fan... And I suspect there was little in the way of editing going on with this book with regards to cutting anything, especially given the in-fucking-sane £20 RRP which more-or-less destroys any claims Tor, Harriet, Brandon or any other apologist for the three books thing had going. Brandon won't cut anything because he's a huge fan and he loves every single little minutia and Tor don't give a shit because if he writes loads of grade-A bloat they can make sure they're getting 3 nice solid door-stoppers to milk for every last penny.

Even reading with a fan's eyes I can see so much in this book I'd cut, maybe it's my inner editor, or the distant echoes of my favourite old history teacher telling me to be more concise and get to the damn point instead of rambling unnecessarily as even now I still do. Regardless even though I like this book as a fan and stuff which interests me as a fan is happening... well, I can still see bloat everywhere, scenes I'd cut or cut down, chapters I'd merge to move things along. The kind of stuff which would have made this a two book finale.

I think it's more that he didn't want to anger the hardcore fans. Sanderson liked the books, but he was by no means an expert on them, and I don't think he was as much of a rabid fan as he would like us to believe. I just think he's catering to those fans because they're more likely to burn his house down if he leaves out a character here and there.

[Lord Biff]

Holy Motherfucking Shit.

I absolutely agree the pacing was off, and I think that Mat's going to be insanely hard to write in the next two books, and I'm a little nonplussed by Fail's lack of, well, Fail.

But finalfuckingly, with respect to the ending.

After six fucking books of this shit, finally!

[kcf]

I hope that the reason Mat's pacing seems off is that he was forced into the book. Really, his chapters didn't need to be there

SPOILER: TGS

and that chapter about somebackwatertownfullofcrazies was a complete waste of space.

I hope that it improve for the next book, which will clearly have an abundance of Mat

[Tyrone Biggums]

What exactly happened there at the end...

SPOILER: TGS

Did Rand and Lews become (as they already were) one person finally? And he isn't insane anymore?

[MaesterLuwin]

I think it's more that he didn't want to anger the hardcore fans. Sanderson liked the books, but he was by no means an expert on them, and I don't think he was as much of a rabid fan as he would like us to believe. I just think he's catering to those fans because they're more likely to burn his house down if he leaves out a character here and there.

Well, Sanderson said he would not take out any scene or plotline in Jordan's notes. If RJ left something behind about it, it's going to be included. When Jordan's widow is your editor, I don't think you can change the plot around that much or take things out.

I'm about halfway through, and while there's some bloat, it's not nearly as bad. Pretty much what I expected once they revealed that it would be three books. And Sanderson's better at keeping the tertiary characters in check. For example, I noticed in a chapter set in the White Tower, only three or four Aes Sedai were mentioned, and they were all relevant to the plot of that chapter. No five-page sequence of rattling off the names and Ajahs of Aes Sedai that some character happens to see in a hallway for a split second.

On the other hand, there was a significant amount of time devoted to describing the embroidery on a certain character's shirt in another chapter. But at this point, for me at least, that sort of thing makes me smile. It's like meeting up with an old friend after four years. It's just that the friend happens to be incredibly long-winded and a slow talker.

[Lord Biff]

Well, Sanderson said he would not take out any scene or plotline in Jordan's notes. If RJ left something behind about it, it's going to be included. When Jordan's widow is your editor, I don't think you can change the plot around that much or take things out.

I'm about halfway through, and while there's some bloat, it's not nearly as bad. Pretty much what I expected once they revealed that it would be three books. And Sanderson's better at keeping the tertiary characters in check. For example, I noticed in a chapter set in the White Tower, only three or four Aes Sedai were mentioned, and they were all relevant to the plot of that chapter. No five-page sequence of rattling off the names and Ajahs of Aes Sedai that some character happens to see in a hallway for a split second.

On the other hand, there was a significant amount of time devoted to describing the embroidery on a certain character's shirt in another chapter. But at this point, for me at least, that sort of thing makes me smile. It's like meeting up with an old friend after four years. It's just that the friend happens to be incredibly long-winded and a slow talker.

This was an incredibly important thing.

Although BS isn't nearly as good as the best of RJ - I mean, try equaling the two chapters on the Da'Shain in TSR - I think he has an overwhelming advantage in not getting weighed down by details.

I would say that RJ's illness and the atrocity that was CoT made him recognize that he had to begin to wrap things up.

But I also think that he would have produced at least another trilogy, if not two. And there's no way he can write as fast as BS, who's positively firing through ToM. I'd like to see the end of this series *soon*.

[Rhom]

Only about 130ish pages in, but it feels like a WoT book to me.

[Renasko]

Only about 130ish pages in, but it feels like a WoT book to me.

Ah, I had every right to feel it might be a bit too long. :drunk:

[Guest Ro_]

Just got home from BN - got the book, damn my eyes. I read a few spoilers by accident and simply couldn't wait anymore. Tended my farmville crops and am going to light a few candles, open a bottle of wine and read the book. :D

[mashiara]

Ah well, maybe I will go read some of the book in B&N before my copy gets here. Be dammed if I buy two copies.

Just got home from BN - got the book, damn my eyes. I read a few spoilers by accident and simply couldn't wait anymore. Tended my farmville crops and am going to light a few candles, open a bottle of wine and read the book. :D

:lol:

Bless your impatient heart, I wish I could do the same. The book was dispatched on Tuesday, but how long will it take to get here?

I have a hard time staying away from the other thread but so far I'm managing it. And I'm not clicking on any more spoilers than I already have.

[Guest Ro_]

lol, despite all my posturing, I am a geek to my soles.

Several hundred pages in and I am pissed off I got out of bed to go get the book. Only one remotely interesting thing has happened so far and it was so obvious in coming even I saw it. I do hope the pacing isn't this uneven thru the rest of the book or series.

On a personal note, as much as I do not always admire RJ's writing, its interesting to read this series again now; with what I am going through. As anyone who has been on the boards awhile knows, I do not do well at holding my temper when I really should. One of the messages that is iterated over and over again in this series is that when you lose control of your temper and yourself, you lose control of the situation. It really is a hard lesson to learn and abide by.

On a continuing non-spoilerish bent, yes, I am noticing the differences between RJ and BS. To the point where I will be reading BS's work next. I know how objective taste can be, but I am extremely impressed with BS so far. I am finding him WAAAAY more readable than RJ. Bravo!

P.S. I got my kitten's balls cut off today. I can't think of any series that would compliment that action better. :lol:

[BLU-RAY]

I picked the book up at about 12:30 noon today, just finished it (1:00 AM) with class and food in between.

I had a couple problems with it here and there, and if you let yourself think about it at times it was obvious that someone other than RJ had written parts of it... but it was pretty good all told, and DAMN it is fun to see stuff happen.

[alguien]

I'm very much enjoying it thus far. But c'mon please:

SPOILER: a name

You couldn't think of a better name than Sleete? Really? Even Hael or Rein would have been better. Jesus.

[Slick Mongoose]

I just finished it and loved it. It's a little bloated (no more than most WoT books, and a hell of a lot less than CoT or WH). And the Mat and Perrin chapters are indeed poor. I think those chapters were only included so nobody would complain that the book didn't have those characters.

But overall I think it's one of the better books in the series. Lots happens, the plot moves forward towards TG, many plots get resolved, and things that we've been waiting ages for them to happen, happen. There were many "oh, fuck" moments. And a couple of scenes that I think rival the best scenes in the series.

[Poobah]

I'm very much enjoying it thus far. But c'mon please:

SPOILER: a name

You couldn't think of a better name than Sleete? Really? Even Hael or Rein would have been better. Jesus.

It's a real-world surname.

[alguien]

It's a real-world surname.

Maybe that's why its sounds horribly clunky and out of place in a Randland setting.