Reorganizing the GoT Forum - Is the board equipped to cope with huge influx when season starts?

[BigFatCoward]

If and when HBO show the first episode, I expect there will be a huge increase in the numbers of people joining the forum, how equipped is the board to handle that increase in traffic. I dont just mean the technology, my main concern is that new posts will be appearing constantly, at such a rate that no decent discussions will be able to get going.

Do people see the fresh perspective that will be gained from non-readers to be a good thing? or are you reserving judgement.

[DJDonegal]

I'm not sure how heavy the workload is for moderators at the moment, so they'd be better placed to say whether they think a subsequent increase is something they can handle or whether they would need more hands. Old hands, of course. Another issue would be whether the board itself can cope. In the past we've had some major downtime, and the board would need to be well prepared to cope with the almost certain rise in people accessing the board, though I expect this to be something dealt with behind the scenes.

Also, the fact that this forum is primarily based on the books means many people will find the fact that there are spoilers everywhere a deterrent from joining the forums. That could limit the level of influx onto the site, though clearly it won't abolish it.

I wouldn't think the viewers of the show would bring a "fresh" perspective because they're about 4 books worth of information behind, and nearly everything that can be discusses has been discussed... endlessly. As well as that, some details in the show may differ from the books, which many loyal readers will probably find irritating, and that is the only main branch of new discussion I can see occurring. But I'll reserve judgment until the flux begins.

[Krafus]

If there's an influx of newcomers because of the series, I'd imagine that, at least at first, they'll remain for the most part in this forum. Maybe the increase of traffic will eventually make Ran create a moderator position specifically for this forum, but all in all I can't imagine this turning into a major problem, either for the board or us current regulars. Even if the newcomers turn to the General and AFfC forums and ask questions we've discussed ad nauseam before, we need only ignore those topics if we're not interested.

[Brude]

I've been doing some thinking about this and was considering messaging Ran about it once I organized my thoughts more, but no reason I can't post my thinking so far about it here, I guess:

• Once the air-date for the show gets close or if/when we start to see that big influx of new boarders coming in, I think a bit of re-organization might be needed to help the presumably large number of newbies with no knowledge of the books avoid major spoiler areas of the board. I would even suggest creating a new main section called something like "A Game of Thrones - The TV Series" and put that near the top of the board (after Information) where new people might see it first.
  
• Then sub-divide The GOT - TV section into two sub-sections:
  • For Newbies (i.e. those who are just watching the show and haven't read the books). That's not a good name for the section, but that's essentially what it would be. This will be like a new book section right after one has come out, with lots of new, crazy threads and theories flying around.
    • It would have to be carefully moderated with the rule that nothing in the story not aired yet on TV can be discussed or really even alluded to by those who know the books.
      
    • Some version of the new spoiler rules Stubby, X-Ray and I came up with for the Entertainment section should be strictly enforced there. Since I'm in this part of the board pretty much daily anyway and since my Mod duties in Entertainment aren't that hefty honestly, I'd be willing to throw my hat in the ring for additional Mod duties there.
      
    • Hopefully mods and some thoughtful, more experienced boarders can help guide discussions here but without breaking the spoiler rules...hopefully.
      

    [*]For Those Experienced With the Books. Again, a terrible name for the section, but basically we'd move all of the TV show discussion so far into here.

    • It can remain a place for discussing casting of future characters, background on production of the show that could include accidental or incidental spoilers and such, much like the current discussions on the series.
      
    • An open place where those who have read the books need not worry about spoiling anything.
      

My main concern about putting this new section at the top is to help the possible flood of newbies who will be coming here find the non-spoiler sections for the show first. The discussion of the books is obviously the heart of what this board is about, even though most of us who long ago read them probably hardly go there any more (though I have been since I recently did a re-read). But if the influx of new boarders is big enough, I think it would be helpful to channel them into a "safe area," if we can. To that, the longer one has been on the board, the more likely they are to drift down to the BwB threads, Wiki thread and of course the Miscellaneous section and stay there, so in a way the board is already sort of organized in such a way that newbies will go to the top sections first, which are about the series as a whole and the latest book.

[thotk]

very concise brude, +1 on his comments.

[Scion of Valyria]

Brude's plan works splendidly, I just don't see why it is necessary. HBO will set up a forum of their own for discussion of the show, or someone will and HBO will link it up. Those who do happen to drift here oughta know that a board about the books is a land filled with terrible demons, abominations, and spoilers, and are expected to tread carefully for their own well-being. I don't see how its any different then stumbling across this when you haven't gotten through the all the books written. At most, all that is needed is a notice at the top telling them to be careful. The official HBO board would serve as a buffer, for the most part, containing those who had no idea the books existed previously, incubating them until they are ready to frolic here.

Most people who find (or have found) their way here don't need to be coddled, and I have a concern that should the board take great lengths to nurture those who do need said coddling, will have a forum or two that'll resemble the LOST or Heroes or Tudors boards. I say just post a warning at the top, and let them find their own way. I don't mean to sound harsh or xenophobic (I'm well aware that is exactly how I sound), but let people find their board legs on their own. I guess some additional moderators wouldn't hurt, but we sure don't need nurseries.

[Erik of Hazelfield]

Brude's suggestions are great, but Scion brings up an important issue. Do we want the forum to be a place for fans of the books, as it is now, or also for fans of the TV series? Would it be possible to maintain the high standard of the miscellaneous section if we were invaded by thousands of TV fans? (No other forum I've ever been to comes close to this one's discussions about politics and literature.)

The advantage of a "book fans only"-approach would be to preserving the atmosphere and quality of the discussions. On the other hand, the spirit of this forum has always been to welcome everyone and report on anything even remotely connected to ASoIaF and GRRM. A forum section where new fans can discuss the TV series would be both fun for them and potentially enlightening for us.

It's a hard decision, and Ran's the one who has to take it.

[williamjm]

The advantage of a "book fans only"-approach would be to preserving the atmosphere and quality of the discussions. On the other hand, the spirit of this forum has always been to welcome everyone and report on anything even remotely connected to ASoIaF and GRRM. A forum section where new fans can discuss the TV series would be both fun for them and potentially enlightening for us.

Even if we did want to do that, I don't see how we could enforce it being a "book fans only" forum. There will inevitably be a lot of discussion of the TV series even if it is just by existing members and that will need to be in a separate subforum (or it could drown out the other discussion once the show starts airing). We can't stop new people joining even if they just want to post in the TV series forum and don't know anything else about the books, and I agree with you that it isn't really in the spirit of the board which has several forums that have nothing to do with GRRM or ASOIAF at all.

Brude, I think there is a third category of people that have to be considered as well - people who are not able to watch the original broadcast at the time it is aired (who may or may not have read the books). The show isn't going to air on the same schedule in every country and some us may have to wait months after the US airing to be able to watch it. The TV series forums are going to need a policy on whether discussion of recently-aired episodes needs to be spoiler tagged (of course, the policy could be if you haven't seen the latest episode don't read the TV forum), I seem to remember something similar happened in the book forums when AFFC first came out?

[Sable899]

Even if we did want to do that, I don't see how we could enforce it being a "book fans only" forum. There will inevitably be a lot of discussion of the TV series even if it is just by existing members and that will need to be in a separate subforum (or it could drown out the other discussion once the show starts airing). We can't stop new people joining even if they just want to post in the TV series forum and don't know anything else about the books, and I agree with you that it isn't really in the spirit of the board which has several forums that have nothing to do with GRRM or ASOIAF at all.

You can have a separate section for new members and not let them access the other sections of the board until either they reach a certain number of posts or are mod approved. The Sean Bean fansite has several restricted sections where access is based on either the number of posts or by mod approval. Newbies see only the basic sections until they reach a certain post count or can convince a mod that they should have access.

[Sekhmet]

I think you'll have a big influx. You've already had some new interest. I'm one for sure. And right now, I only post here. I'm busy catching up again with the books. I'd read the 1st 3 when they were published. I look forward to talking books, but I'm not going there now in case of spoilers. I'm listening to the audio books during my hour and 10 round trip to the barn, and been enjoying it immensely.

I think that most people, if they have any intelligence at all, can avoid what they don't want to read.

[Brude]

Do we want the forum to be a place for fans of the books, as it is now, or also for fans of the TV series? Would it be possible to maintain the high standard of the miscellaneous section if we were invaded by thousands of TV fans? (No other forum I've ever been to comes close to this one's discussions about politics and literature.)

The advantage of a "book fans only"-approach would be to preserving the atmosphere and quality of the discussions. On the other hand, the spirit of this forum has always been to welcome everyone and report on anything even remotely connected to ASoIaF and GRRM. A forum section where new fans can discuss the TV series would be both fun for them and potentially enlightening for us.

Well, the forum is already the place where Dan & Dave have chosen to interact with fans and Ran has been organizing the series sub-forum largely to help facilitate that (especially the casting discussions), so I think in a way that choice has already been made. I know that in Entertainment we're not exactly inundated with requests to fix or close bad threads, or issues with flame wars and such. Can't say what other sections are like for that, but I'm sure it can be managed. It helps that this is a very open forum where opinions are very free and only abuses are an issue.

Brude, I think there is a third category of people that have to be considered as well - people who are not able to watch the original broadcast at the time it is aired (who may or may not have read the books). The show isn't going to air on the same schedule in every country and some us may have to wait months after the US airing to be able to watch it. The TV series forums are going to need a policy on whether discussion of recently-aired episodes needs to be spoiler tagged (of course, the policy could be if you haven't seen the latest episode don't read the TV forum), I seem to remember something similar happened in the book forums when AFFC first came out?

We have a spoiler policy for that in Entertainment which at least partially tries to address this. I think at least at first we can try to open new threads for discussion geared towards whatever new region is just getting the show as it happens. We did something like that in Ent. when BBC2 aired "The Wire" earlier this year and I think it worked pretty well. If it becomes problematic, we can maybe think about changes later but I think it can work.

One thing that is helpful is that HBO is going very international with channels in countries all over the world. Hopefully that means they will be airing the show concurrently in those regions with the US (or very near to it).

You can have a separate section for new members and not let them access the other sections of the board until either they reach a certain number of posts or are mod approved. The Sean Bean fansite has several restricted sections where access is based on either the number of posts or by mod approval. Newbies see only the basic sections until they reach a certain post count or can convince a mod that they should have access.

This board has never operated like that. Freedom of thought and expression are pretty paramount here, I would say, so suddenly restricting people from sections would really change the whole attitude and tone of the board, I think. It creates an exclusionary atmosphere. I doubt Ran would even consider it, anyway.

[Kat]

[*]Then sub-divide The GOT - TV section into two sub-sections:

• For Newbies (i.e. those who are just watching the show and haven't read the books). That's not a good name for the section, but that's essentially what it would be. This will be like a new book section right after one has come out, with lots of new, crazy threads and theories flying around.
  • It would have to be carefully moderated with the rule that nothing in the story not aired yet on TV can be discussed or really even alluded to by those who know the books.

I think just putting in the title--very clearly--the intention of the forum would solve it well. For instance, "Game of Thrones TV series: NO BOOK SPOILERS OR ALLUSIONS" is pretty clear.

I don't know if it's possible on this board software, but I've been on forums before that allow you to choose a user group, so you could either be a "Book Virgin" or "Book Maven" and have the other forum not even accessable to prevent you from going in the wrong one and messing up the discussion with R+L=J???!!! threads left and right. (Or, if the book/TV forums could be put in a different section from each other and the related (BWB, merchandise) forums so that someone who didn't want book spoilers could minimize the book forums and not risk seeing a spoilerific thread title.)

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

I think just putting in the title--very clearly--the intention of the forum would solve it well. For instance, "Game of Thrones TV series: NO BOOK SPOILERS OR ALLUSIONS" is pretty clear.

I don't know if it's possible on this board software, but I've been on forums before that allow you to choose a user group, so you could either be a "Book Virgin" or "Book Maven" and have the other forum not even accessable to prevent you from going in the wrong one and messing up the discussion with R+L=J???!!! threads left and right. (Or, if the book/TV forums could be put in a different section from each other and the related (BWB, merchandise) forums so that someone who didn't want book spoilers could minimize the book forums and not risk seeing a spoilerific thread title.)

I think this should definitely be possible. I was part of a relatively low key (smaller than this anyway) Lost forum back in the day, and you could change your usergroup depending on which season schedule you were on, which meant only the forums you were up to date on were viewable. It wasn't restrictive, since the choice was essentially yours.

[Brude]

It's possible to do if the board software supports it. Dunno, Ran would be the expert on that. I know Tower of the Hand has a similar system where you can set how much of the series you have read and their articles reveal spoilers only up to what you've read. Pretty neat, but I imagine hard to code everything for so many articles.

[gryphon strike]

I will believe the show is real when I see it just as I will believe there is an end when I see it.

[mormont]

One thing I don't think any of the mods want is a forum that's unwelcoming, and too many restrictions placed on what people can or can't read would be that, I think. Warnings are fine, but ultimately it's down to users whether they want to read spoilers.

[Marcelo Rebelo Firqoralas]

I suggest that newcomers should take a sort of "citizenship" test if they want to join our board. Possible questions could be:

What does R+L=J mean?

What is a yeard?

Do you hate the word "moist"?

Can champagne be produced in the US?

Checking for basic essentials like these could ensure that only the right type of people join up.

[Xray the Enforcer]

One thing I don't think any of the mods want is a forum that's unwelcoming, and too many restrictions placed on what people can or can't read would be that, I think. Warnings are fine, but ultimately it's down to users whether they want to read spoilers.

Indeed. That said, it is paramount that the old-timers/book fans don't act like jerks in the TV forum, posting spoilers for the series before that part of the timeline has had a chance to air (for example, talking about the events of Kings Landing at the end of GoT before the story even gets there). I, for one, am going to be very unforgiving to those who can't extend basic courtesy to series n00bs.

[Young Wolf]

I've been doing some thinking about this and was considering messaging Ran about it once I organized my thoughts more, but no reason I can't post my thinking so far about it here, I guess:

not aired yet on TV can be discussed or really even alluded to by those who know the books.

[*]Some version of the new spoiler rules Stubby, X-Ray and I came up with for the Entertainment section should be strictly enforced there. Since I'm in this part of the board pretty much daily anyway and since my Mod duties in Entertainment aren't that hefty honestly, I'd be willing to throw my hat in the ring for additional Mod duties there.

Word, Brude. I agree 150% with what you're saying.

I was even going to PM Ran and ask to become a Mod in this section, once we needed one.

Yep, I said it. :P

ETA: This is funnier coming from Dub's account, but this is 100% Mya here. :lol: I do have my own computer to stop the accidental posting from happening, I swear.

[Vestrit]

Indeed. That said, it is paramount that the old-timers/book fans don't act like jerks in the TV forum, posting spoilers for the series before that part of the timeline has had a chance to air (for example, talking about the events of Kings Landing at the end of GoT before the story even gets there). I, for one, am going to be very unforgiving to those who can't extend basic courtesy to series n00bs.

I totally agree with that

I’m not a fan of the view that a: a bunch of tv fans will ruin the ‘quality’ of these boards; and b: that people should be restricted to what they can access or have to prove themselves worthy of being in certain forums

This board has always dealt with both floods of new members and their impact on discussions by giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and seeing what happens

Newbies (and most of members for that matter) generally quickly gravitate to the areas of the board that most interest them. For most tv and book noobs, that will be the tv threads or the book threads. Some more adventurous may wander down to Gen Chat or FG, where we’ll eat them with some fava beans and a nice Chianti they’re always welcome to join in the mix

This board has always been pretty good at self-policing. We tend to give noobs a warm welcome and if they turn out to deserve some respect, they get it. If they turn out to be Patronising Knob Jockeys™, then they don’t get respect.