The Judging Eye V

[Paxter]

Amazon UK claims that book three of the Aspect Emperor, The Horns of Golgotterath, will be published in January 2012:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Horns-Golgotterath-Aspect-Emperor-Book/dp/1841498319/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264629616&sr=1-1

That's the first news I've heard of the title of the third book. Or am I just not up to date with the latest Bakker news?

[Ski the Swift]

How about some news on the second installment first? :P

[red snow]

Cheers Maithanet and Shryke! That being Mekeretig is useful to know, especially considering all the shit he's been involved in.

The Inrau stuff still seems really odd and i guess the super-punch was magic related as he did start singing (or hear singing) while he did so. It's a shame Kellhus has no need for matrix-fighting anymore, as i'm sure we'd be in for lots exploding head finger punches (there's still Shenkt in "Best served cold" for that kind of stuff). I still think that's the trippiest scene in the series so far, although the Yatwer preist period/sex ritual that transferred age between her and the guy is a new contender.

"The Horns of Golgoterrath" by this time next year? I hope so but that would mean less than a year between the next two installments. Really looking forward to more Golgoterrath - based on the glimpses from Akka/Seswatha it has the potential to blow Cil-Aujas out of the water and that's saying something. Hopefully Bakker didn't raise the bar too high.

[Shryke]

The text at that part EXPLICITLY says it's sorcery.

Also, you forgot my favorite bit of that scene, where he rips the guys heart right out of his chest and then turns the blood spraying about into fire and throws said Burning Blood at the Synthese.

[red snow]

The text at that part EXPLICITLY says it's sorcery.

Also, you forgot my favorite bit of that scene, where he rips the guys heart right out of his chest and then turns the blood spraying about into fire and throws said Burning Blood at the Synthese.

I'd forgot about the blood turning into fire. The first time i read that section, I had to go back and read it again as it was such a mindfuck. You can't beat a bit of heart-tearing. If the series ever gets filmed that scene will be jaw dropping, if done correctly.

[Shryke]

Aye, it was always one of my favorites too.

It's also really our first taste of Sorcery in the series and it sets a nice tone. Horribly destructive and powerful and gruesome.

[Maithanet]

Aye, it was always one of my favorites too.

It's also really our first taste of Sorcery in the series and it sets a nice tone. Horribly destructive and powerful and gruesome.

Yeah, I don't have teh books in front of me, but I was considering whether that was the first use of sorcery in the books (not counting Mekeritrig in the intro, which is really hard to understand). But didn't the Battle of Kyuth (sp) already occur as well? That didn't come across as terribly strange/confusing.

[Shryke]

Yeah, I don't have teh books in front of me, but I was considering whether that was the first use of sorcery in the books (not counting Mekeritrig in the intro, which is really hard to understand). But didn't the Battle of Kyuth (sp) already occur as well? That didn't come across as terribly strange/confusing.

Battle of Kyuth I don't THINK was before. But if it was, Sorcery is very ... distant in those parts of the book.

The bit with Inrau is the first time we see sorcery up close. (Other then the intro with Mek)

[unJon]

Is there a way to reconcile Inrau's use of some pretty badass sorcery in that scene with Akka's lecture to Kelhus in TTT that there would be a long period of time between when Kel would be susceptible to chorae and when he would know enough sorcery to be able to defend himself. In other words, in the normal course, a student of the Gnosis would get the Mark from some weak Cants and not know how to do any badass sorcery for a long time thereafter. We know that Inrau was not Marked, yet he pulled of the Temple of Doom Fist of Fire spell? Holding aside that the spell is pretty different than the geometric shapes of the gnosis we are used to, how did he know how to do that?

It's always been an inconsistency that bugged me that I chalked up to Bakker not having the magic system fully worked out when he wrote TDTCB.

[jurble]

I always thought that was the first time Inrau ever actually used anything he was taught.

[Shryke]

He wasn't very good at defending himself though.

I mean, he goes all Temple of Doom on the guys ass, but that's about all he manages to pull off.

[Latan]

We need to ask Pat and Dylan to pester Bakker for another update on how the series is progressing.

[red snow]

I thought it was maybe the case that although it looked kick-ass it's a pretty strupid/inefficient use of magic. I mean any sorcerer with sense sticks too long range attacks and shouldn't allow people to be that close. Other sorcerors can probably do the "temple of doom" but choose more sophisticated attacks?

The only other thing i can think of is that people who have even basic training in the gnosis are programmed to go ape-shit when they see genuine consult members. I don't think any other gnostics have met real consult members outside of the mimics, which i see more as weapons.

That or Inrau was actually quite special and it was a huge setback that he was killed. Would be kind of funny if a messiah-like character was removed before they ever had the chance to bloom.

[Borque]

My crackpot theory on this - Onkis is helping Inrau.

First, I think Inrau would clearly be unable to do this himself, in the light of the information we're given when Achamian trains Kellhus in TTT.

Second, just before this scene Onkis seems to speak to him in his thoughts, which means she is aware of his situation.

Third, helping a very devout follower remembering and properly uttering a Cant he has studied at some point, possibly even supplying a missing word here and there, wouldn't be obviously beyond Onkis' capabilities.

One problem with this is of course that sorcery is considered blasphemous , and as such probably not something a god would get involved with. We don't know if this actually is the case though.

Also, we don't know enough about the rules and motivations of the gods to determine if this kind of intervention actually would be probable or even possible.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

My crackpot theory on this - Onkis is helping Inrau.

First, I think Inrau would clearly be unable to do this himself, in the light of the information we're given when Achamian trains Kellhus in TTT.

Second, just before this scene Onkis seems to speak to him in his thoughts, which means she is aware of his situation.

Third, helping a very devout follower remembering and properly uttering a Cant he has studied at some point, possibly even supplying a missing word here and there, wouldn't be obviously beyond Onkis' capabilities.

One problem with this is of course that sorcery is considered blasphemous , and as such probably not something a god would get involved with. We don't know if this actually is the case though.

Also, we don't know enough about the rules and motivations of the gods to determine if this kind of intervention actually would be probable or even possible.

I thought the same thing, especially in light of the more advanced role that the different deities play in TJE. If Yatwer can make her arch-priestess sex-steal somebody's life force, why can't Onkis give Inrau a little help?

[Happy Ent]

No. Why should it be Onkis? Here's the scene, with some omissions to avoid pasting too much

"What do you want?" Inrau asked, his voice steadier this time. "What are you doing here?" He cared nothing for the answer, and everything for the time.

Please-remember-Please-remember . . .

"Doing? Why, what our kind always does: overseeing our stake in these affairs." It pursed its lips over its tiny teeth, but sourly, as though displeased by their taste. "No different, I suppose, from what you were doing in the Shriah's apartments, hmm?"

Breathing had become painful. He could not speak.

Yes-yes-yes-that' s-it-that' s-it-but-what-comes-next? What-comes-after?

"Tsk, tsk," Sarcellus said, edging closer. "[...]"

"So it is your fault," the Synthese said with the miniature mockery of a scowl. [...]

Inrau sensed Mujonish looming behind. Prayer seized his tongue. Blasphemy tumbled from his lips.

Turning with sorcerous speed, he punched two fingers through Mujonish's chain mail, cracked his breastbone, then seized his heart. He yanked his hand free, drawing a cord of glittering blood into the air. More impossible words. The blood burst into incandescent flame, followed his sweeping hand toward the Synthese. Shrieking, the creature dove from the railing into emptiness. Blinding beads of blood cracked bare stone.

He would have turned to Sarcellus, but the sight of Mujonish stilled him. The Shrial Knight had stumbled to his knees, wiping his bloody hands on his surcoat. Then, as though spilling from a bladder, his face simply fell apart, dropping outward, unclutching . . .

No mark. Not the faintest whisper of sorcery.

But how?

Something struck him hard about the head, and he toppled. Scrambling. A blow to his stomach sent him rolling. He glimpsed Sarcellus's shadowy form dancing about him. He gasped more words—words of shelter. Ghostly Wards leapt about him . . .

But they were useless. Reaching through the luminescent panes as though they were smoke, the Knight-Commander seized him about the throat and heaved him into the air. He raised a Chorae in his other hand, whisked it over Inrau's cheek.

I think it's quite certain that Inrau speaks sorcery. We're told so, explicitly.

The only strange thing is that it doesn't feel very much like the Gnosis. There are no abstractions. But that could be exactly what a young initiate learns, before he attempts stuff like the Third Fundamental Lemma of Essential Pwnage. It's rather weak stuff.

I can't see what Onkis has got to do with it. Maybe except for the line I included here, emphasis mine: "Prayer seized his tongue. Blasphemy tumbled from his lips." But if that's not sorcery, it's not blasphemy either.

Just before that scene:

Onkis! Treacherous-god-bitch!

Through the terror an impossible certainty seized him. A revelation. Words of prayer had become tissue. Beneath he sensed other words, words of power.

He doesn’t seem to be at his most religous here. He just renounced his goddess, and then realises that there are words of power (namely, sorcery).

[unJon]

The only strange thing is that it doesn't feel very much like the Gnosis. There are no abstractions. But that could be exactly what a young initiate learns, before he attempts stuff like the Third Fundamental Lemma of Essential Pwnage. It's rather weak stuff.

You have not shown how this is consistent with Akka's explanation to Kel in TTT about how you are marked long before you learn anything that would allow you to defend yourself. Or are you ok that it's not consistent?

[jurble]

continuity error or something.

Anyway, what's the deal with the clear homophobism exhibited by the Utemot towards Cnaiur. You'd think the Scylvendi would be as sexually liberated as their friends in the Consult.

[Darzin]

Anyway, what's the deal with the clear homophobism exhibited by the Utemot towards Cnaiur. You'd think the Scylvendi would be as sexually liberated as their friends in the Consult.

I think it might have been part of Scylvendi culture before the first apacalopse their culture hasn't changed much if at all. Also the worshipped the No God so them and the Consult were both allies, but fore different reasons.

This raises another interesting question though, seeing as the Scylvendi are not part of the New Empire, I wonder if the Consult have established any contacts with them, seeing as they both want to ressurect the No God, and seeing as the Scylvendi might be usefull in attacking Kelhus.

[Borque]

No. Why should it be Onkis?

Well, unless Scott has made a mistake, either Akka is seriously confused in TTT, or Inrau gets some help. And Onkis does seem to be a good candidate.

Actually, assuming Onkis actually wants to help out, it's not that farfetched that she could do something similar to a Cant of Compulsion. If so, Inrau (and the reader) won't notice, it all will seem like it's him recalling and doing the sorcery. Basically like it's written.