The Judging Eye V

[Nerdanel]

I've been thinking about the Consult's war strategy.

If the Great Ordeal marches with all haste, they might get to Golgotterath just before winter. Therefore Kellhus's plan, at least his outward plan, the plan his generals think he's going for, is to breach Golgotterath's defenses in a very short order and spend the winter there, munching on the Consult's siege supplies.

The problem with this plan is that it requires the Consult to play along. The Consult could conceivably retreat from their fortress and take their food with them, leaving the Great Ordeal in a very bad situation. This would leave Kellhus's army with no food and a topos as their only shelter from the weather, plus any supplemental traps like stores of poisoned food that the Consult might set. Like the Holy War was modelled on the First Crusade, people have already been noticing that the Great Ordeal sounds like Napoleon's attack on Russia.

In case the army doesn't want to stay in Golgotterath, they could conceivably look other shelter. Golgotterath's isolation comes to play here. The army would have a long way to walk to any of the potential candidates, in winter, while starving and trying to live off the land and possibly resorting to cannibalism.

Some of the possible destinations include:

- Ishterebinth: A long walk and requires either crossing a strait (that may not necessarily be frozen) or crossing a mountain chain. The attitude of the Nonmen is unclear. Has Kellhus forged an alliance with them?

- Ishuäl: A long walk to a place that can only be found by very few people, though Kellhus is one of them. The inhabitants are guaranteed to be hostile and good at fighting.

- Dagliash, Trysë, Sauglish etc.: A long walk to a ruin.

- Atrithau: A very long walk to a place situated on anarcane ground. Raises inconvenient questions about Kellhus's official history.

- Sakarpus: A very long walk indeed. The winter would be past by the time the remnants of the army arrived there.

- A human tribe like the Werigda but still there: Also a long walk and villages like that would be too small to accommodate many.

It is unknown what Kellhus would do in that case. He might just teleport away and leave the army behind.

But I think the Consult is not just defending. I think Achamian and co. witnessed troop movements through Cil-Aujas. Considering that a simple ambush is a really clever trick for the tactically-challenged Sranc, there must be a greater mind behind the Chorae-Bashrags, as well as significant resources. I'm thinking that as Kellhus is attacking Golgotterath, the Consult is going to attack the undefended Three Seas.

Historically the Consult hasn't been all that smart, though. However, I think this time they have the brain of Cnaiür doing their planning. Bakker tried hard to imply that Cnaiür died without actually saying that he died. It makes me think that Cnaiür is still alive and will be revealed in a surprise twist. Remember also that Cnaiür has survived a swazond in his throat one time already.

[Kalbear]

But I think the Consult is not just defending. I think Achamian and co. witnessed troop movements through Cil-Aujas. Considering that a simple ambush is a really clever trick for the tactically-challenged Sranc, there must be a greater mind behind the Chorae-Bashrags, as well as significant resources. I'm thinking that as Kellhus is attacking Golgotterath, the Consult is going to attack the undefended Three Seas.

Err...what?

So on the one hand you're claiming that Suj is the No-God - you know, that thing that controls all the sranc and bashrags effortlessly. And he's just chilling down in Cil-Aujas.

On the other hand you're claiming that the sranc and bashrag down in the dungeon that is exactly like Moria are being moved around through the mountains down there despite them being thousands of miles away from the host of Kellhus, because they're directed.

Why not combine two completely insane theories and say that the No-God is down there and the reason that the sranc were able to do an ambush (which they've demonstrated before) was because his influence was stronger there? Isn't that at least a little bit more internally consistent with the insane theories?

As to the troop movements to attack the undefended three seas - if that's the case, why would the sranc pursue further into the mountain? Which is more likely - that they live down there, attracted by the hell and the topos (and the Moria parallels), or that they happened to decide to go through the Medial Screw by climbing up to the mountain, then climbing down, through a topos, and through massive darkness so they could come out the other side - and just happened to come across Akka's band right in the middle?

Also, do you think that what Akka et al faced down there was an army? Seriously? Given the descriptions of Sranc without number in the various places, does this seem reasonable?

istorically the Consult hasn't been all that smart, though. However, I think this time they have the brain of Cnaiür doing their planning. Bakker tried hard to imply that Cnaiür died without actually saying that he died.

In the prologue, Bakker said he died.

Ishuäl: A long walk to a place that can only be found by very few people, though Kellhus is one of them. The inhabitants are guaranteed to be hostile and good at fighting.

There is no guarantee that Kellhus can find Ishual, and a lot of speculation that Ishual is now hidden from him.

[drl84]

There's a good chance Esmenet has Nonman blood too. She is beautiful and intelligent with very good physical abilities. And her mother was a witch. I think Esmenet might be one of the Few too, based on a passage about her mother refusing to teach her witchcraft. It wasn't about Esmenet not being one of the Few, it was about stones hurting less than being burned on a stake.

Kelmomas is one of the Few. I remember that there was a quote from his POV somewhere in TJE that confirmed it. He just hasn't told anyone about it.

How could a caste menial, in the center of civilization, have Non-man blood in her? Her father was an abusive rapist and her mother was a beaten woman.

And I think you're thinking of Esmi's first daughter, Mim. That or it was about Akki unwilling to teach her to read, which was something that she perceived as hurtful from him.

And for Kelmomas being one of the Few . . . somehow I highly doubt this from the information we've been given: He can't see the mark of damnation on anyone, not even his father. What he may have is a highly developed sense of self - ie read into Abominations from classic Dune - but so far he shows no hint of the Gift.

[drl84]

By "Old Whore" I think she meant she was in her late 20s or something at most.

Glossery for tDtCB says that Esmi is 31, and that Akki is 47, with Kel being 33.

Older age could account for, lets say Sama maybe? (Not to sound like a prick cause I know how touchy this subject is) But I doubt a 12 armed fetus would account for that.

I think the whole "Old Whore" thing was just her own fear of being left in her golden years without any means of financial support. The priest client of hers that is leaving her for a younger one in tDtCB reinforces that fear in her.

[Happy Ent]

He can't see the mark of damnation on anyone, not even his father.

Careful, now. The mark is not a mark of damnation. The few can see the mark, which looks a bit like the pixel artefact of a bad photoshop job or the corners around cheap CGI. Mimara can see damnation, which shows people as shambling, hoary monsters. Not the same thing.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

There's a good chance Esmenet has Nonman blood too. She is beautiful and intelligent with very good physical abilities. And her mother was a witch. I think Esmenet might be one of the Few too, based on a passage about her mother refusing to teach her witchcraft. It wasn't about Esmenet not being one of the Few, it was about stones hurting less than being burned on a stake.

There is no chance that Esmi has Nonman blood. None at all. She grew up in Sumna, where presumably her whole family had lived, an area that hasn't seen a Nonman in millenia. Furthermore, your evidence is that she's good-looking and smart and able to bear Kellhus' seed. Well, as to that, some woman was able to bear Moe's seed - and it wasn't Esmi. Are there now two Nonman-descended woman wandering the Three Seas?

Kellhus's symbol, the Circumfix, looks suspiciously like an upside-down pentagram, at least in the simpler wire versions. The Tusk, on the other hand, if it curves enough, can look like number six. Characters in TJE have been wearing multiple tusks in their clothes. Of particular note is that in the last Condia chapter Sorweel sees Kellhus having a row of three red tusks in the hem of his robe... 666...

Well, I've been saying that Kellhus is the Antichrist character. More exactly, I'd say that Kellhus is the Beast, Esmenet is the Whore of Babylon, Maithanet is the False Prophet, and Kelmomas is the Little Horn. Among other things, I expect that seals like the one sealing the Wight-in-the-Mountain will get broken during the course of the story.

By the way, I'm starting to get the Gnostic vibe from the story. If Kellhus is truly the God-in-the-small like he claims, that's not a good thing, considering that he is a tyrant. But the God-in-the-small thing doesn't look so impossible based on what we know about the God of Eärwa. Also, note how the Andiamine Heights and the new torture chambers beneath it form an analogue to Dante's Heaven and Hell, even down to the basic geometrical shape.

You are really reaching here. I think that Bakker has made the Antichrist parallel clear enough without implying that the shape of the Tusk is a 6...

For the bolded part, we don't actually know that this is true. We don't know what "shape" the Heights have. The torture chamber does resemble Dante's hell, but then, so do strip mines. That doesn't imply that strip mines are referencing Dante.

I've been thinking about the Consult's war strategy.

*snip*

I admit to wondering about the issue of winter myself. Kellhus' plan seems to be to march as far north as he can given his tenuous supply chain and then collect supplies before setting out again across the Wilds. However, his trackers have assured him that there is enough game in the Ancient North to support his host, and while I doubt that this is actually the case (hard to find enough deer to feed 300,000 men), Kel's plan appears to rely upon it.

We don't really know any of this though... it's just as plausible that he's going to halt before winter somewhere in the Ancient North, probably near one of the ruined cities for convenience, build up supplies with his metaled road from the Three Seas, and winter in a large permanent camp before moving on to attack Golgotterath in the spring.

Some of the possible destinations include:

- Ishterebinth: A long walk and requires either crossing a strait (that may not necessarily be frozen) or crossing a mountain chain. The attitude of the Nonmen is unclear. Has Kellhus forged an alliance with them?

- Ishuäl: A long walk to a place that can only be found by very few people, though Kellhus is one of them. The inhabitants are guaranteed to be hostile and good at fighting.

- Dagliash, Trysë, Sauglish etc.: A long walk to a ruin.

- Atrithau: A very long walk to a place situated on anarcane ground. Raises inconvenient questions about Kellhus's official history.

- Sakarpus: A very long walk indeed. The winter would be past by the time the remnants of the army arrived there.

- A human tribe like the Werigda but still there: Also a long walk and villages like that would be too small to accommodate many.

There's no reason why Dagliash would be unsuitable for the force, except for the issue of poisoned wells and such. It was built to watch Golgotterath, after all - it's not terribly far from it.

And for Kelmomas being one of the Few . . . somehow I highly doubt this from the information we've been given: He can't see the mark of damnation on anyone, not even his father. What he may have is a highly developed sense of self - ie read into Abominations from classic Dune - but so far he shows no hint of the Gift.

He has something. He was able to see the Wards used by the Imperial Saik to defend the Heights when he was sneaking out to kill the emissary.

p. 267, US hardcover

The young Prince-Imperial leapt over the balustrade. / The sorcerous Wards he need not worry about. He could see them easily enough.

[drl84]

I stand corrected on two fronts.

[Tears of Lys]

Careful, now. The mark is not a mark of damnation. The few can see the mark, which looks a bit like the pixel artefact of a bad photoshop job or the corners around cheap CGI. Mimara can see damnation, which shows people as shambling, hoary monsters. Not the same thing.

:lol: Hey, I'm one of the Few too! I've seen plenty of those "marks" around.

As for Kellhus' battle plan, I thought it was understood that this is a march from which few will return anyway.

[lokisnow]

There were two nonman-man hybrids born that are known to recorded Earwan history. the rape of Omindalea in 925 led to the Anasurimbor bloodline, and the other from far antiquity, Cimoira, daughter of the human criminal Sirwatta and an Ishroi's wife, has not led to a known (known to the readers at least) bloodline carried through the millenia. Esme's chances of having a trace of nonman blood (from the thousands of years ago hybrid) are probably exactly as good as the chances of anyone else in the world.

An interesting question would be if an aporetic sorcereress with the judging eye was the non-man side of that particular union. This would then lead to the theory that those few humans throughout history with the judging eye are descended from that other hybrid. This also depends upon the idea that Cimoira, the hybrid daughter, was not killed in the womb plague, but vanished from non-man history.

And regarding Mek=Nin, Nin vanishes, and Mek appears as the thief of the Heron Spear in 850. before that Mek's never mentioned. So it's a reasonable assumption, since few non-men, aside from Nin and Mek, seem to have sided with the Inchoroi. There were no new nonman children about, so Mek, as a sorcerer, was probably involved in the war/battle when Cuj fell to Nin. To then switch sides a few millenia later and side with Nin seems strange. And why would Nin have left the Ark or been allowed to leave the ark? recapturing Sil's Heron Spear would be a good reason to send Nin amongst the nonmen. Especially if the Inchoroi had the ability to change his appearance, ala the Face Dancers of Dune.

I would think that Nin's son may be a more likely candidate as Cleric than Nin himself.

As for Kell's winter plans. I think he intends to march as far as weather permits, possibly to Sauglish and Atrithau. Open the encampment to wide ranging hunting and then use his sorcerers and himself to continue the road being built to Sakarpus along the path created by the Ordeal up to the winter encampment point in order to speed and strengthen his supply line.

[Nerdanel]

Err...what?

So on the one hand you're claiming that Suj is the No-God - you know, that thing that controls all the sranc and bashrags effortlessly. And he's just chilling down in Cil-Aujas.

No, no, no. I am saying that I think the No-God (in life Su'juroit the Witch King) is like the Wight-in-the-Mountain (in life Gin'yursis, the King of Cil-Aujas). I'm not saying that they are the same. I think the No-God is a great deal the more powerful of the two in death like he was more powerful in life.

Points of similarity:

- Emitting supernatural dread

- Speaking through the mouths of bodies without souls in them (Sranc/unconscious people)

- Powers of possession (Sranc/Cleric)

- Problems with seeing the material world (I CANNOT SEE./ghost's eyes not focusing on the other characters.)

- Connection to a topos (Golgotterath/Cil-Aujas)

- Godlike qualities but questionable if a real god (regarded as god by many but not Seswatha/I dream that I am a god.)

- Hunger (called "Angel of the Endless Hunger"/A hunger runs through me...)

- Capable of taking the souls of others

I think they both count as Ciphrang, but most Ciphrang aren't nearly as powerful as them.

On the other hand you're claiming that the sranc and bashrag down in the dungeon that is exactly like Moria are being moved around through the mountains down there despite them being thousands of miles away from the host of Kellhus, because they're directed.

There is a mention in TJE about Sranc using Cil-Aujas as a way through the mountains, so there's nothing new about that. Sometimes not having a soul is an asset. However, the Sranc still need to eat and they can't survive by eating rock.

And I think the Consult doesn't want to attack the host of Kellhus right now. They are going to lure him far into the Ancient North, beyond the reach of supply lines, with a harsh winter coming. Hunger and cold could do the job of many, many Sranc - all without wasting troops to Kellhus's skilled and high-morale veteran army. Fighting a major battle and winning is one thing, but not fighting a battle and winning anyway is better yet, the pinnacle of warcraft. Try thinking like Sun-Tzu.

Why not combine two completely insane theories and say that the No-God is down there and the reason that the sranc were able to do an ambush (which they've demonstrated before) was because his influence was stronger there? Isn't that at least a little bit more internally consistent with the insane theories?

I think the Sranc have been told by the Consult what to do. The Consult does have some power over their weapon races without the No-God, you know. The Sranc don't fight nearly as well when they aren't possessed by the No-God, but we have seen that they will follow Consult commanders.

As to the troop movements to attack the undefended three seas - if that's the case, why would the sranc pursue further into the mountain? Which is more likely - that they live down there, attracted by the hell and the topos (and the Moria parallels), or that they happened to decide to go through the Medial Screw by climbing up to the mountain, then climbing down, through a topos, and through massive darkness so they could come out the other side - and just happened to come across Akka's band right in the middle?

The Medial Screw's main purpose is ventilation, not travel. The Skin Eaters weren't planning to go that way. I think the Sranc went in through a gate on the other side of the mountains and traveled more or less horizontally through the mountain.

As the Sranc lack souls, they might not even notice the entire topos and just see a handy way through the mountains.

Also, do you think that what Akka et al faced down there was an army? Seriously? Given the descriptions of Sranc without number in the various places, does this seem reasonable?

It wasn't the entire Sranc army. It's normal for armies to travel in pieces especially if they are foraging from the countryside. Also, smaller numbers are more likely to be regarded as business as usual for the area. The idea is for the people of the Three Seas to not know anything is wrong before Sranc armies are upon them. Meanwhile, most of the fighting strength of the Three Seas is far in the north, unable to be of any help and not achieving anything worthwhile.

]In the prologue, Bakker said he died.

No he didn't.

There is no guarantee that Kellhus can find Ishual, and a lot of speculation that Ishual is now hidden from him.

Knowing Kellhus's mental capabilities, he should have no problem retracing his steps. The glamor is still there of course, but unless the glamor does something drastic to confuse those approaching and if Kellhus hasn't learned how to deal with that kind of magic, Kellhus is going to get there if he wants to.

[Octavian West]

Just finished TJE and I have a couple of questions

1. What are you guys thoughts on that frozen lake with all those women and children in it?

2. When King of Viri sent sent that request for aid letter to the King of Siol, in it he states that the The Men howl piteously at the Gates. Are those gates of the same nature of those left unguarded in the Black Halls?

3. Why did the Sranc and Bashrag give Akka and Cleric such a hard time. Akka faced down an entire army column and a demon by himself in TTT. That scene was kind of intense, so I'm sure I missed something.

All thoughts on the above matters are welcomed.

And Nerdanel I want to thank you for your amazing posts. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading them!

[Kalbear]

There is a mention in TJE about Sranc using Cil-Aujas as a way through the mountains, so there's nothing new about that. Sometimes not having a soul is an asset. However, the Sranc still need to eat and they can't survive by eating rock.

And I think the Consult doesn't want to attack the host of Kellhus right now. They are going to lure him far into the Ancient North, beyond the reach of supply lines, with a harsh winter coming. Hunger and cold could do the job of many, many Sranc - all without wasting troops to Kellhus's skilled and high-morale veteran army. Fighting a major battle and winning is one thing, but not fighting a battle and winning anyway is better yet, the pinnacle of warcraft. Try thinking like Sun-Tzu.

The Consult suck at tactics though. We've talked about that before. Their plan to stop the nonmen was to kill all their women and make the remaining men immortal. That was their first plan.

Their second plan was to summon a God that stopped all of their enemies from breeding and then instead of chilling out for 30 years and waiting for their hated enemy to just die out they go and send their one big weapon in to direct battle - which is the only possible way they can lose.

Then they get caught monologuing by Kellhus while trying to kill Akka - and fail at that.

They totally suck. If they thought about Sun-Tzu they'd just try and figure out what orifices they could violate of him.

Anyway, as you say - Cil-Aujas was used already as a place Sranc move. Why would you think that this isn't just them normally moving or chilling out down there for a while? It's not a large force of sranc. There's no sign that it is an army exactly. And there are a lot of other ways they can go.

Now, one point in this favor is that they have chorae. Why would some random group have trinkets? That's odd. I think it's personally that it's the only way you can make any challenge to Akka and Cleric; you can't really have a powerful sorcerer without a foil. As pointed above, Akka obliterates an army without chorae without breaking a sweat. So you may have a point there.

]In the prologue, Bakker said he died.

No he didn't.

I don't have the book with me, but it's pretty clear that Cnaiur died according to the prologue.

[Happy Ent]

3. Why did the Sranc and Bashrag give Akka and Cleric such a hard time. Akka faced down an entire army column and a demon by himself in TTT. That scene was kind of intense, so I'm sure I missed something.

Akka was certain that he was as good as dead against Conphas’s army as well. One Chorae bowman is enough to kill him. In Cil-Aujas, several of the Bashrag were wearing chorae, and Akka is pretty powerless against just one those. He doesn’t have a lot of options. No roofs to collapse…

Cleric is multi-classed, so he has less of a problem. (Similarly, Kellhus would stand a pretty good chance against a chorae-wearing Bashrag.)

[Maithanet]

Akka was certain that he was as good as dead against Conphas’s army as well. One Chorae bowman is enough to kill him. In Cil-Aujas, several of the Bashrag were wearing chorae, and Akka is pretty powerless against just one those. He doesn’t have a lot of options. No roofs to collapse…

Cleric is multi-classed, so he has less of a problem. (Similarly, Kellhus would stand a pretty good chance against a chorae-wearing Bashrag.)

Bashrag with a Chorae are not going to be stopped with sorcery, and can penetrate a line of men quite quickly.

I think that Cleric could have fought the Bashrag/Sranc horde almost indefinitely, but it would have served little purpose, since the line was broken. Likewise, I think Kellhus would make mincemeat of a Bashrag. I'm not certain that I would take a Bashrag against a skinspy, to be honest, given the damage those things could do to the Eothic Guard and later to the Kidrihil cavalry.

[drl84]

But he had made one mistake. He had allowed Cnaiur urs Skiotha (The most violent of men!!!!), a Scylvendi chieftain who had accomplanied him on his trek to the Three Seas, to learn too much of his true nature. Before HIS DEATH, the barbarian revealed these truths to Drusas Archamian, who had harboured heart-breaking suspicions of his own

We've discussed this before; the quote is in the What Has Come Before section. Bakker has made it clear that there are no more violent men in his world.

Edit: For the love of the No-God, Cnaiur is truely dead, in the physical sense. It has been discussed before, can we please drop this line of questioning?

[Octavian West]

Akka was certain that he was as good as dead against Conphas’s army as well. One Chorae bowman is enough to kill him. In Cil-Aujas, several of the Bashrag were wearing chorae, and Akka is pretty powerless against just one those. He doesn’t have a lot of options. No roofs to collapse…

Cleric is multi-classed, so he has less of a problem. (Similarly, Kellhus would stand a pretty good chance against a chorae-wearing Bashrag.)

Teah I understand that. But wasn't it mentioned that there was 13 Sranc and Bashrag with chorea? And they didn't have bowmen. Akka was in the air, couldn't him and Cleric stayed there and do work on all the others that were not wearing choreas? I mean they had no way of hurting them, the Sranc had javelins but their wards protected them against those.

[Maithanet]

The Consult suck at tactics though. We've talked about that before. Their plan to stop the nonmen was to kill all their women and make the remaining men immortal. That was their first plan.

Their second plan was to summon a God that stopped all of their enemies from breeding and then instead of chilling out for 30 years and waiting for their hated enemy to just die out they go and send their one big weapon in to direct battle - which is the only possible way they can lose.

I agree, the first plan is terrible. I can only assume that they thought the plague, which nearly killed the men as well, would actually kill them. Even still, making your enemies immortal is a pretty stupid thing to do.

I've heard several people voice their opinion that sending out the No-God was a horrible strategic move, but I can give the Consult some slack for this:

Once the No-God is summoned, there is no question whatsoever to the empires of men that it must be destroyed. It is so terrible that you know its location at all times. An army was organized to kill the No-God, and the Consult drew it into battle and destroyed it. Then they went on the offense, and destroyed most of the North, and were moving further south.

Could they have rested on their laurels, built up defenses for a siege (in case one was coming) and waited for another 50 years, after which no credible threat could be raised against them? Yes. But it is not necessarily the best plan.

If they don't press the attack, the remaining human armies can regroup, reassemble and mount another attack. This carries with it its own dangers, and losing the initiative in war is a dangerous proposal. Having no babies wouldn't have any impact on the numbers of soldiers available for 15 years (at least). It even briefly increases the manpower available, because no one has to worry about caring for children, which is a huge time investment by each generation. And in that time, all of humanity is united against you, in the strongest possible way. Simply waiting for them all to die strikes me as potentially just as risky as pressing the attack.

Secondly, the Consult wanted to close the world to the outside, and had waited a long time to do so. I can understand how waiting an additional 60 years might seem unpleasant after all the work they've gone to in summoning the No-God.

Third, the No-God is incredibly unpleasant to be around for humans. It could potentially be just as bad for the Consult, so holing up in Golgotterath with that thing may be a very bad option indeed. I'll admit, that's nothing more than speculation.

[Nerdanel]

Just finished TJE and I have a couple of questions

1. What are you guys thoughts on that frozen lake with all those women and children in it?

This would be easier to answer if we knew what those women and children looked like... Nonmen? Men? Five Tribes? Emwama? Signs from death by drowning, falling, disease, being hacked with weapons? The apparent age of the children? So I don't really know, but my best guess is that those are either the Emwama concubines and their children (children conceived and born during the Apocalypse! Hmmm...) or the Nonwomen and their children (so apparently the Inchoroi disease killed all the children too) that the Nonmen preserved in ice so that they could gaze upon them in sad remembrance. They could also be something rather more recent, a Consult atrocity from the last autumn, although that wouldn't really be their style at all.

Whatever the case, it looks like the lake water was liquid either from summer or sorcery when the bodies were pushed in, froze soon after, and hasn't been liquid much if it all since.

2. When King of Viri sent sent that request for aid letter to the King of Siol, in it he states that the The Men howl piteously at the Gates. Are those gates of the same nature of those left unguarded in the Black Halls?

Those were probably farming slaves. We know that the Nonmen used human slaves to grow food.

3. Why did the Sranc and Bashrag give Akka and Cleric such a hard time. Akka faced down an entire army column and a demon by himself in TTT. That scene was kind of intense, so I'm sure I missed something.

The Bashrags were wearing Chorae, making them immune to magic. Cleric could still hit them with a sword, but Akka was completely useless against them.

(Edited to add:) Also, if the enemies threw one of the Chorae, being in the air surrounded by wards = being a prime target for a quick salting.

All thoughts on the above matters are welcomed.

And Nerdanel I want to thank you for your amazing posts. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading them!

Thanks! :)

[Kalbear]

If they don't press the attack, the remaining human armies can regroup, reassemble and mount another attack. This carries with it its own dangers, and losing the initiative in war is a dangerous proposal. Having no babies wouldn't have any impact on the numbers of soldiers available for 15 years (at least). It even briefly increases the manpower available, because no one has to worry about caring for children, which is a huge time investment by each generation. And in that time, all of humanity is united against you, in the strongest possible way. Simply waiting for them all to die strikes me as potentially just as risky as pressing the attack.

Maybe - but why press the attack against the united armies of the humans? I mean, the Consult basically went right into the maw of the three seas population, instead of picking them off piece by piece. Even if you don't think that they were better off just waiting in Golgotterath (where HE made a good joke upon a time), there's no need to go push their supply lines far far away from there. We've already seen the logistical nightmares in mounting the biggest fight ever against Golgotterath - and that's with a lot more people than what they had before.

Again: Consult are stupid.

[Jon AS]

The Consult suck at tactics though. We've talked about that before. Their plan to stop the nonmen was to kill all their women and make the remaining men immortal. That was their first plan.

I thought we'd come to the conclusion that the plan was to gain the trust of the Nonmen by making them "immortal", then wipe them out with the plague. After all the males fell ill as well. It seems it was more Inchoroi incompetence in creating the plague rather than outright stupidity at the planning stage.