Alexia Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 On Harry the Heir...I just have to ask. Why does everyone seem so sure that he's going to turn out to be a bad guy? Yes, he has one bastard and another on the way but Westeros is lacking in family planning options, particularly for the peasant girls he's been with. Does being sexually active really make him that bad of a guy?I've been withholding judgment until we actually meet him but so far he puts me in mind of Edmure Tully, who likes the girls but seems like a nice guy overall. The only real negative so far is that Myranda doesn't like him...but a marriage proposal for her was rejected, which means that its not exactly an unbiased opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha—Not Yara! Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I actually kind of hope he turns out to be over all a nice guy that Sansa falls in love with because that will make Littlefinger jealous. Thus he might ruin his plans due to his creepy desires for Sansa especially if he chooses to off Harry in the heat of the moment before the marriage can take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAH Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 On Harry the Heir...I just have to ask. Why does everyone seem so sure that he's going to turn out to be a bad guy?FWIW, I've never thought of him as a bad guy. More like a living, moving bull's-eye target...like most of the people that get mixed up in Littlefinger's schemes one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2241 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Unless I've forgotten, about the only things we know about HtH is that he is the heir and that he has one bastard and another on the way. That makes it hard to make any sort of judgement about him at all. I hope that Alexia is right and that he turns out to be a bit like Edmure (nice guy, likes the ladies, but minus the bit about having a head as soft as his heart). Unfortunately, I have the bad feeling that KAH is right and that he's not going to meet a happy ending - but I hope I'm wrong about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlipFantastic Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I suppose we all assume he turns out to be a not-so-nice guy considering the pattern of Sansa and her arranged marriages. GRRM seems hell bent on not giving Sansa any kind of fairytale anything she oh so desires. I dont see any reason why HtH would be the one to break this trend storywise. All in all, i predict Sansa remains sexless for this entire series with nothing but tragic marriages yet somehow manages to become the Virgin Queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Lannister Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 As everyone said, we know too little about him to make any judgement at this point.But in my mind's eye, he is somewhat like young Robert: strong, loves to have fun (and possibly fight as well), and not particularly constant when it comes to woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHackeySackOfIceAndFire Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 huh. i always pictured him as a cunning warrior, a diamond in the rough elevated to a high throne by blood and chance. but then again when i first read about him i was really, really looking for a horse to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moirne Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 It just seems GRRM's style to have him be a conceited jerk. Maybe he will be a nice guy, who knows, but I don't see him hanging around very long. LF wouldn't want that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 We can't say that Harry will be a jerk just because 'it's G.R.R.M.'s style'. If G.R.R.M. had a fixed 'style' all the Lannister would be complete bastards, and we know that this is not the case.I guess we don't really have any choice other than to wait for the book in which Harry gets more greatly described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I don't know what you've been reading, but I've not seen anyone criticize him. We only get a few paragraphs about him from Petyr and even thats not enough.Whoever is saying he is going to turn out to be a bad guy must be confused with somebody else, because Harry the Heir sounds to be like he'll grow up to be a pretty gallant knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dothwacky Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I figured he was a mini Robert as well, myself, which doesn't make it a bad thing for Sansa, because she's not a demented Cersei. I look at how many books we're supposed to have left until the finale, and I think its not such a bad end for Sansa, as Lady of the Eyrie.iirc, the godswood there was too feeble to take root, suits her just fine :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 I figured he was a mini Robert as well, myself, which doesn't make it a bad thing for Sansa, because she's not a demented Cersei. I look at how many books we're supposed to have left until the finale, and I think its not such a bad end for Sansa, as Lady of the Eyrie.iirc, the godswood there was too feeble to take root, suits her just fine :PI think being the Lady of the Eyrie would be a great ending for her, but...She hated being in the Eyrie, felt lonely and isolated, and thought to herself "a godswood without gods, as empty as me." She seems to miss the godswood and she did do some actual praying while she was meeting Ser Dontos in KL. Matter of fact, I would say that her faith in the Northern gods was shaky when she went to KL and that her experiences there caused her to develop a strong faith in those gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dothwacky Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'd be lonely in the Eyrie too if I had molesting Petyr and Sweetrobin for company ;)Lysa is like Cersei in that aspect, not having any ladies attending her, and thus making her court a lonely place to be a part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'd be lonely in the Eyrie too if I had molesting Petyr and Sweetrobin for company ;)Lysa is like Cersei in that aspect, not having any ladies attending her, and thus making her court a lonely place to be a part of.LOL. You're right, Sansa would definitely make an effort to keep a more active court than Lysa did, regardless of where she ends up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moirne Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 We can't say that Harry will be a jerk just because 'it's G.R.R.M.'s style'. If G.R.R.M. had a fixed 'style' all the Lannister would be complete bastards, and we know that this is not the case.I guess we don't really have any choice other than to wait for the book in which Harry gets more greatly described.I'm not saying Harry will be a jerk, but would GRRM want Sansa to have her gallant knight at last? It would go against the lesson he has been trying to teach her. I guess if he's really sadistic, he could have Sansa love Harry and then be absolutely gutted when Littlefinger kills him...From the little we know of Harry, he seems a lot like Robert. Not a bad person, but kind of a jerk. That's just my impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Pie for President Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 My first thought of Harry was something like „Great, that will be another chapter in Sansa's Dating Woes“. I agree with 2241, FlipFantastic and moirne. Why? No idea. Maybe my knowledge of the GRRM style or Sansa's karma or <fangirl mode> my innermost faith that there can be no one but the Hound </fangirl mode>.But honestly, I don't think Sansa is going to fall in love to anyone soon. Not as long as she is in disguise, always anxious to betray herself. And by the way, I don't think Harry will be that important. In Westeros, planned weddings are common to combine military forces. Probably Littlefinger promised Sansa (Sansa, not Alayne) to Harry's foster familiy (forgot the name). Becauuuse: Why should Harry's foster familiy agree to marry the precious heir of the vale to some bastard girl? LF made their mouths water with promises of inheriting the North. But as we all know LF, it's not unlikely he planned a few steps farther. My guess is that alliance will not last very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trio Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Sansa's "lesson" if you want to call it that, is that handsome gallant Knights are often made of clay.We know Harry is attractive, and he's probably charming if he's good with the Ladeeeez, and since he's in Sansa's story - well, I'm guessing that he'll be made of clay too but this time Sansa will see it straightaway.In other words, the purpose of Harry will be to reveal how far Sansa has come in seeing behind the pretty words. A year ago she'd still have thought "beautiful = good-hearted". I'm betting that now we'll see Sansa see Harry and immediately think "beautiful = must not be taken in by his face and courtly manners. Must be very wary.".And YAY! her development will be almost complete - with it only remaining for her to start playing the game herself, independently of LF. I'm presuming that she'll definately play Harry. She'll see the possibility in the plan. But I'm betting that LF will let something slip that he has more pressing priorities than Winterfell and she'll get annoyed and start thinking of doing some manipulating of Harry of her very own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 We know more than the fact he is Robert's heir and he has bastards, we know the opinion of at least one person who knows him: Myranda Royce, despite being, as she says, "a dreadful slut", wishes that "he gets the pox" and deems that Harry will do worse than (erm) merely dying on his wife without even satisfying her or impregnating her. Admittedly it's pretty vague, but it's resolutely negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dothwacky Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Myranda Royce is also a woman turned down for the match, iirc, or unable to wed him on issue of age, not unaware of Harry's potential future as Lord of the Vale, and I'd take her bias with a pinch of salt. Putting a woman off him from the word go is not an alien tactic to some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Certainly, but the information we have so far is not as neutral as it has been argued to be in this thread. Harry is definitely presented as a douchebag so far. I would tend to believe Myranda if only for the reason that I don't think GRRM is always out to subvert how a character is presented from the get go, early hints are used to ground the character.... And anyone who is slagged more than Lyn Corbray in the same conversation, for (apparently) sleeping around and more, by someone who sleeps around herself, cannot be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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