Kat Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I'm just curious about how much of the Westeros geography the writers are going to try to incorporate assuming the series gets greenlighted. It isn't particularly important in the first part of AGOT, but as soon as the characters start moving around and splitting up, it quickly becomes more important. For instance, when Robb and Catelyn discuss the importance of getting Walder Frey to let them cross, and the general importance of the Riverlands joining up with the North, where Tywin's armies are coming from, etc. And it just gets more complicated from there, as soon as you start to introduce Renly and Stannis and their movements. I'm re-reading ACOK right now and just got to the part where Catelyn goes to treat with Renly at Bitterbridge, and they receive news of Stannis attacking Storm's End. These places are fairly far apart, but how do you communicate that without clumsy exposition in the dialogue? ("Your grace, your brother's ships are attacking at your castle Storm's End, which is not at all near your massive army which you are leading to King's Landing. What will you do??")The only equivalent I can think of on film is LOTR, but the way that was written allowed certain verbal explanations when, for example, Gandalf talked to Pippin about Gondor. Except in a few instances where the characters actually discuss strategy (see: Robb and Catelyn in AGOT) there aren't a lot of opportunities for non-cheesy geographical exposition. So what do you think are good solutions? A fair amount can be glossed over, but there are still major plot points which cannot be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Each episode could have an accompanying in-universe documentary or webisode on the history and culture of the Seven Kingdoms which also examines geography. Either that, or HBO send a big map of Westeros to every single subscriber before the series airs ;)More likely, they'll take the LotR route of occasionally showing people staring at maps of the continent (or in Stannis' case the Painted Table) with concerned frowns on their faces.And of course we know that the opening title sequence has a map of Westeros in it as well, which will be at least somewhat helpful, especially if they adapt it so each title sequence ends with the raven landing at the location where the action kicks off.Another option might not be to worry about it. Rome spanned an area stretching from Alesia to eastern Turkey and south into Egypt and only once showed a map (when the Second Triumvirate divided up the Empire and even that map was highly stylised and not very helpful), the lack of which may have confused some viewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I'm not sure that it is really necessary to go into the details of geography in most cases. For the example with Renly hearing of the attack on Storm's End, I would think the viewers can work out from the context that Renly can't easily move his army to Storm's End, it isn't important to the plot what the precise geography is. Maybe it won't be possible for the viewer to understand every aspect of the strategy in the various military campaigns without going into detail about the geography, but I wouldn't say the viewer really needs to understand all the details, they should be able to accept that Frey commands an important strategic position without having it proved by a map. If they want more details they can look at the maps on the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brude Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 If the opening credits remain as they are in the pilot script (or similar), every single episode will begin with a raven flying from The Wall to King's Landing over a map of Westeros, occasionally dipping down at certain landmarks so we see them rendered (Winterfell, the Twins and the Eyrie). I imagine that in subsequent seasons it will take a different route and we'll see other landmarks, such as Riverrun, Harrenhal, Dragonstone, etc. as they become more prominent to the plot.LotR gave you a glimpse of the map at the beginning in the awesome prologue and then a couple of times (especially in RotK) we saw characters actually pouring over maps to point out troop movements and such. We might get a bit of that, too, like during Robb's or Tyrion's war councils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wizard Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Another option might not be to worry about it. Rome spanned an area stretching from Alesia to eastern Turkey and south into Egypt and only once showed a map (when the Second Triumvirate divided up the Empire and even that map was highly stylised and not very helpful), the lack of which may have confused some viewers.Most people have seen a map of Europe and North Africa before though, and will be familiar with the Roman Empire. However, not so many viewers will know anything about Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlipFantastic Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I vote for Indiana Jones type travelling where they show the map and the dotted path of his travels while playing an exciting musical score! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Nevarc Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I would also expect a LotR-ish way of map presentation. Gradually, when each place becomes important to the direct plot, with the occasional person looking over a big map of Westeros.Besides, the average HBO viewer will be somewhat less concerned with the geography of it all than us. :drool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 They need to get an affable slightly embarassed-looking English chap to do a documentary series where he travels around from the frozen forests of the North to the sweltering deserts of Dorne meeting interesting locals and vaguely patronising them, and run those episodes alongside the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Only if he dies at the end of every episode, only to be inexplicably alive again at the start of the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Only if he dies at the end of every episode, only to be inexplicably alive again at the start of the next.I would watch that, probably with more enjoyment than series itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wizard Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 They need to get an affable slightly embarassed-looking English chap to do a documentary series where he travels around from the frozen forests of the North to the sweltering deserts of Dorne meeting interesting locals and vaguely patronising them, and run those episodes alongside the series.Michael Palin by any chance?(Sorry if I've ruined the joke.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitheach Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 They need to get an affable slightly embarassed-looking English chap to do a documentary series where he travels around from the frozen forests of the North to the sweltering deserts of Dorne meeting interesting locals and vaguely patronising them, and run those episodes alongside the series.That. Is. Funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyDogIsNamedDanerys Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Meh, honestly I was pretty confused about geography when I read aSoIaF for the first time, mostly because I listened to it on audiobook and so didn't have a visual reference (actually, did the printed text of aGoT even have a map? I'm not sure it did). If anything, TV at least allows for visual cues (e.g. maps) to be used explicitly when explaining the locations of things. It's not really that cheesy for example to have Jon showing Arya on a map where the wall is and where King's Landing is shortly before they both leave from Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 AGoT does have a pair of maps showing the Seven Kingdoms. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brude Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 And Storm of Swords has a map of Slaver's Bay, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Michael Palin by any chance?(Sorry if I've ruined the joke.)I was thinking more of Gideon Soames (starting at 01:14). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mance Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 especially if they adapt it so each title sequence ends with the raven landing at the location where the action kicks offThis.Ideally, at the start of a pov scene, we could follow a raven flying from that characters last known location to where they were at the start of the new scene. It would definitely add some perspective and breadth to the continent, as well as giving those viewers who care a way to learn the proximity of other cities and locals that get passed over but not necessarily arrived at for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsra Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 This.Ideally, at the start of a pov scene, we could follow a raven flying from that characters last known location to where they were at the start of the new scene. It would definitely add some perspective and breadth to the continent, as well as giving those viewers who care a way to learn the proximity of other cities and locals that get passed over but not necessarily arrived at for a while.The raven idea would be perfect, it would also somewhat emphasize the importance of ravens to Westeros and the plotline :) In many ways the plot is carried out thru ravens, and then there's Bran's raven later on. I've always thought the ravens an essential and almost core piece of the story :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greguh Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 As I see it there are two types of communication when it comes to geography on film. The first is the "You are here" type of communication; the sort that helps keep the viewer oriented. Hopefully as much of this as is possible can be communicated through the visual aesthetic alone: just as, say, in LOTR, we didn't have a great deal of trouble differentiating between Mordor, Minas Tirith, Rohan, Fangorn, etc., I would hope that each location shot would be instantly recognizable. Certainly the scenes shot in Morocco will look very different than those shot on Britain and Ireland, and hopefully they can find good locations that will be suitable stand-ins for the Mountains of the Moon (shouldn't be TOO difficult), the Riverlands, North of the Wall, and of other areas of geography as they become more prominent in the story.As new locations are introduced I wouldn't mind titles underscoring the establishing shot from time to time, particularly when we're introduced to brand new locations in S2 (Dragonstone) and S4 (Dorne). This is less necessary when a character has to make an entrance to a location (The Eyrie, Pyke, Braavos, Harrenhal, etc.) because the introduction is made for the character, and thus, for us.Hopefully everything in the vicinity of The Wall will be recognizable via the big freaking wall in the background ;)The other type of communication is the strategic "we are here, we need to go here and here" type talk, which is more applicable to military strategy and where it's perfectly reasonable to have the characters sitting over a map and talking. I see this happening exactly once in S1, when Robb and Catelyn discuss splitting their forces and crossing at The Twins. In S2 there will be much more of a need for it, and I certainly wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall in some of Tywin's strategy sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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