A Stannis thread!

[Alexia]

So, any thoughts on what'll happen to Stannis? Does anyone think he'll end up as King? Dead? What do people think will happen to him? :)

I have to admit, he's a bit of a cipher to me. I rather think he'll die by the end of the books but whereas I can come up with pretty good speculation on other characters Stannis is a bit tough. Maybe he'll turn into a wight? :huh:

I do, however, think he'd be a horrible king. :lol:

[Clumber]

I think Stannis will die, though I wish it otherwise. He's one of my top choices for the throne, right after Tywin.

I don't see how he would make a bad king? Maybe with Mel standing over his shoulder, but after he's gotten rid of her he would be a great ruler. He doesn't have the support right now to get there so I don't see it happening, but if by some turn of events he did end up on the throne I think the Seven Kingdoms would benefit.

[Field of Asphodel]

I'm really not sure.

My guess is, on the Wall and separated from Davos, he'll veer sharply toward The Dark Side. Melissandre's magic will either severely weaken him until he's a broken man or convert him into some strange Darth Vader-like shadowy supernatural creation (seriously: Stoneheart and Dondarrin are precedents; though I imagine a different sort of transformation for Stannis). But he'll repent before he dies, probably to Davos. Maybe Melissandre will decide he's not the King mentioned in the prophecy and abandon him at a crucial time. And in the meantime, he'll make Lord Snow's life hell.

Or, he'll be killed by wildlings.

Yeah, there's no clear "role" for Stannis within the larger context of the story. It's obvious he'll be a terrible king, and I don't think Martin will ultimately leave Westeros in the hands of a terrible king. So he'll drop out of the running before then (i.e. he'll die).

Ultimately, he won't be an insignificant character, though. He'll open doors for the future king/queen somehow, intentionally or not...

[Alexia]

I don't see how he would make a bad king? Maybe with Mel standing over his shoulder, but after he's gotten rid of her he would be a great ruler. He doesn't have the support right now to get there so I don't see it happening, but if by some turn of events he did end up on the throne I think the Seven Kingdoms would benefit.

Well, he outlaws whores, cuts the fingers off men who help him, and employs black magic for his political ends? He has no flexibility and no negotiation skills.

[1000 days Anne]

I think he will die soon, giving his blood to hatch Mel's dragon of stone.

The other option is that he will become the King of the Night, like Bran's tale.

I think Melisandre is a undead like Beric and Stoneheart, which explains the poisoning going wrong, the fact that she seems not feel the Wall's cold and even her red gemstone :dunno: :dunno: .

But maybe, reading the ADWD spoilers, he will deal with the Ironborns, mainly with Asha, and take a part at the North questions before.

[Guest Other-in-law]

The other option is that he will become the King of the Night, like Bran's tale.

This. The parallels are already there. he's already made horrible demonic children with the maegi who steals his soul when she takes his seed (it's not really certain that she's a "corpse queen", but the notion is definitely intriguing). He;s even going to make his seat at the Nightfort.

[lexxxy52]

I think he will die soon, giving his blood to hatch Mel's dragon of stone.

The other option is that he will become the King of the Night, like Bran's tale.

I think Melisandre is a undead like Beric and Stoneheart, which explains the poisoning going wrong, the fact that she seems not feel the Wall's cold and even her red gemstone :dunno: :dunno: .

But maybe, reading the ADWD spoilers, he will deal with the Ironborns, mainly with Asha, and take a part at the North questions before.

I can't remember if this is in the books or not but i've got the feeling that everyone mentions she's always at a hot temperature which points away from the undead thing...

Stannis will die and i hope he becomes the night king 2.0

[Dornish Dreamer]

I can't remember if this is in the books or not but i've got the feeling that everyone mentions she's always at a hot temperature which points away from the undead thing...

Stannis will die and i hope he becomes the night king 2.0

Can someone remind me what the King of Night was all about and where to re-read about it? Much appreciated! I also think Stannis will become very Vader-like but then he will redeem himself and throw Mel off the wall!

[Field of Asphodel]

Can someone remind me what the King of Night was all about and where to re-read about it? Much appreciated! I also think Stannis will become very Vader-like but then he will redeem himself and throw Mel off the wall!

The last Bran chapter in ASoS, I believe; the one where Bran and Co are at the Nightfort. (The story of the Night King was one of several Old Nan stories the set at the Nightfort.)

[ieiazel]

I like Stannis quite a lot, so I hope to see him survive the 7 books.

Also, I don't see why he would make a terrible king. He is just, and he fights because he should be the legitimate ruler not because he is hungry for power or for revenge (like Renly, the Greyjoys and Robb respectively). Besides, you don't need to be popular to actually be a good ruler.

[Summer Is Coming]

I'm with those who are in defense of Stannis. I really don't think he has done anything that evil. Sure he chopped off Davos' fingers, made some shadow babies with Mel, killed his brother with said shadow baby, was willing to kill one of his brother's bastards and did several other questionable deeds, but is he really that bad in the grand scheme of things? He's stubborn as hell and I agree he would make a poor king (he's too rigid and lacks empathy) but I really don't think he's outright evil (or will end up that way).

I think magic (and Mel) are also getting an unwarranted bad rap. I don't think Mel's shadowbinding is meant to be evil either. Magic is just like everything else in Martin's world; not exactly black or white and has very real consequences. Can it be used for evil? Absolitely. And Stannis is appears weakened by the use of magic, sure. But does that mean he or the magic he and Mel are channelling is evil? Again, I don't think so.

Back on topic, I think Stannis will end up in the Watch, possibly Lord Commander (assuming Jon either dies, gets kicked out or chooses to abdicate the position).

- Summer

[Alexia]

I think magic (and Mel) are also getting an unwarranted bad rap. I don't think Mel's shadowbinding is meant to be evil either. Magic is just like everything else in Martin's world; not exactly black or white and has very real consequences. Can it be used for evil? Absolitely. And Stannis is appears weakened by the use of magic, sure. But does that mean he or the magic he and Mel are channelling is evil? Again, I don't think so.

Magic is not necessarily meant to be evil in that world, but when Stannis is having sex with a sorceress to enable her to seize a piece of his shadow and give birth to it, using it as an assassin to kill his brother with Stannis' knowledge and approval (making him a kinslayer, most evil crime in Westeros), I'd say what she's employing counts as black magic for sure.

Stannis has no moral clarity. :lol:

[The SmilingKnight]

Stannis is lost.

He will play a role for some time more but i dont see any kind of good ending for him.

I feel he is only alive because Melisandre still believes he is the chosen one. Once that proves wrong...

And he certainly wont be the next King.

There wont be any Kings anymore. That song is over.

Winter is coming.

Will he just die (get killed) or taken by the Others or become a shadow zombie - only Martin knows.

I think its possible he will foolishly try to duel some important Other with his sword and we all know how that will end.

[Dreadwolf]

Well, he outlaws whores, cuts the fingers off men who help him, and employs black magic for his political ends?

Stannis has no moral clarity. :lol:

IMHO none of th above described actions/ sins/ virtues prevents a person from being a ‘good’ king per se. How many statesmen can actually aford them selves the luxury of being 'good' and 'moral' persons after all?

Let's take the Examples for cutting fingers. The affected person actually worships the executor, consider his Master just and rightful (i.e. especially in and for this case) and even accepts him as his great benefactor (including in moral sense/aspect). If the majority of the subjects adore their King. Good for him then.

He has no flexibility and no negotiation skills.

I agree here but it needs more consideration b/c this may be the ostentatious side only:

- Stanis was flexible enough to engage Mel in his side although he obviously is not happy with her methods. (that is why he sent her away before the battle for KL)

- Stannis negotiated with Jon (to make him legal Lord of W/F). He actually was very close to success at one point in that. It is arguable how much other Northerners wuld appreciate similar solution but IMO again it could deliver some goodies to Stanis cause.

Finally no mater of any moral grounds what soever king Stanis was the only one who reached the conclusion that the right thing to do is to serve the Realm in order to become the proper king instead to become a king in order to serve the Realm (or slightly different and better wording of as provided by himself in the books.)

[Octavian West]

Do we know that Stannis knew that Mel was going to kill Renly? Does he even know that his own shadow did it? Plus we must remember that Stannis is the ONLY person in the SK that has recognized the threat that the the Others present and is actively taking measures against them, of course, besides the NW. Everything he has done, is, in his eyes for the greater good. He has this zealot in his ear telling him how he is AA reborn, add that to his other personality traits and I don't think it's a shocker that he has done the things he's done. I think Stannis is the Macavelli of Martin's world, to him, the end justifies the means.

That being said, I think he is cracking and is going to die from a stroke or heart attack or something and leave his men to Jon Snow to use in defense of the Wall against the Others. Or maybe Mel will realize that he isn't AA reborn and kill him herself. Whatever happens, I don't think Stannis will be amoug the living that much longer. The only issue that leaves me with is what happens to the Baratheon line after his death? I guess it's paves the way for one of Roberts bastards to be legitimized but that seems like a long shot, IMO.

[Dothwacky]

Mel knows he's not Azor Azhai, but she's fanatical enough to think that if you push hard enough, it'll come through. My hopes for her personal end remain that an undead mammoth sits on her ingloriously, but alas I know that is a far off chance.

For Stannis, he is an inflexible character and I pity that aspect of him, as he is driven by a desire to do what's right, he is doing what no one else but the Night's Watch is doing, and I think like Jon Snow, their activities will be overlooked until the end.

If Stannis is buying Mel's belief that he is Azor Azhai, I can see him deciding to make a last stand while others go further south, and he'd probably feel satisfied with that. Up until the others made wight-meat of him.

[Rockroi]

This thread seems to be veering into two; one describes what will happen to Stannis, the other on how good of a King he would be.

I think Stannis will likely die tragically. He will see Mal for what she is, will regret his actions and feelings against Renly, see that he has ruined his house for nothing, and probably pull a Darth Vader to Mal's Emperor- throwing her from the top of the Wall to the icy coldness below.

The other avenue is that Stannis sees (somehow) that Dany is the rightful King and throws his support (mostly symbolic) behind her. This is an unlikely occurrence, but its possible.

As far as Stannis as King, I think he would have been a hard King, but a fair one. A peasant or Lord would always know where he stood with King Stannis I. Stannis would listen and then make up his mind. He would be unmoved by titles or gifts; women or bribes; please of mercy or threats of violence. This is what it is; a good thing AND a bad thing. But at the very least it would be predictable; stable. And isn't stability what Westeroes needs right now? Since Brandon Stark rode into KL, the realm has seen countless Hands, 4 Kings, two rebellions, and a full fledged War of 5 more Kings. It is a realm that does not know up from down, right from wrong.

Stannis Baratheon- for all of his other faults -would bring order and stability to the realm. He would demand cohesion, regulate the 7 Kingdoms, affix punishments to the wrongdoers, etc. THAT is what Westeroes needs.

Further, if Stannis is anything, he is an amazing military leader. He held Storm's End, he wiped out the Greyjoy Fleet during the Rebellion, he was within a whisker of taking King's Landing before he was outflanked by a ghost, and after the most gruesome military defeat at KL, he was able to rally his forces, scurry them half way to the Arctic, and outflank and route a large wilding army. Translation: the guy can make troops do some pretty amazing things.

[Hector18]

Remember that if Stannis dies, the Baratheon line would not end. He has a daughter, and I think (I could be wrong though) that if she is a somewhat mix of her oncles (on father side) and her father, she would make a decent (maybe pretty good?) queen.

There is a possible queen to throw down Cersei if she manages to restore her own power...

[K26dp]

Wild guess: he'll legitimize Edric Storm rather than have his line die out.

[Dothwacky]

His line doesn't die out, he has a daughter, Shireen. Which the poster before you just noted. :lol: