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Ran

Vote on the Reputation System

Reputation System  

226 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you find the reputation system adds something of value to the board?

    • Yes
      49
    • No
      113
    • Maybe, if you change it a bit...
      42
    • Do not care either way.
      22
  2. 2. If you voted Yes, please indicate how strongly you feel about it. 1 is not strongly, 5 is very strongly.

    • 1
      13
    • 2
      13
    • 3
      26
    • 4
      16
    • 5
      17
    • 0 (Voted No)
      141
  3. 3. If you voted No, please indicate how strongly you feel about it. 1 is not strongly, 5 is very strongly.

    • 1
      21
    • 2
      15
    • 3
      37
    • 4
      23
    • 5
      30
    • 0 (Voted Yes)
      100
  4. 4. If you voted for changing it, which changes would you like to see to make the system more useful on the forum? You may select multiple options.

    • Positive voting only.
      23
    • Removal of the feature from General Chatter.
      23
    • Public voting history (i.e. everyone would see the most recent votes, and who initiated them; no more anonymity)
      54
    • Change how many points are available each day (for example, more positive and negative votes, or more positive and the same or fewer negative votes).
      31
    • Did not vote for changing
      140
  5. 5. Respond to this statement: Ran is awesome.

    • Yes.
      50
    • No.
      3
    • Maybe.
      21
    • Awesome? No. More like evil incarnate.
      28
    • My hovercraft is full of eels.
      78
    • Yeah, but I am awesomer.
      31
    • No, but I am still awesome so it's all good.
      15


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You just put Hegel back on his feet, I think he he should do handstands, walk and meditate standing on his head, he was human after all :P

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You can actually filter. I just haven't set up little -1, -2, -3, and so on thresholds to make it more useful. Right now it moves in the same increments as the various ranks, so it's pretty broad.

Is there an option so that some people can choose not to be in the ratings system?

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Fun to play around with but doesn't mean that much overall.

But then again, if people are getting upset then it's probably not worth the angst.

Meh.

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My cons(iderations):

1. From punctuality point of view I think that it would be better if overal and ultimate evaluation system of a poster (following the rating/voting) varies from disliked to popular. (instead chaotic evil and good qualifications). After all alignment and reputations while being somehow connected, are not quite the same. Even in the good old AD&D games system these are different terms. Usually alignment affects the initial reputation only, sometimes charisma is considered (in way of bonus or penalty points. In i/net space it could apply for avatars & names only after a fashion - besides hardly). It is the character's activity that really matters about reputation after that. I am not sure but may be similar shifting of the assessment system would be less offensive for the most sensible boarders as well.

2. I am generally against the negative points.

But if these are really necessary the problem that would exists in many occasions would be the acual difficulty for the poster to understand what was really behind all that. I could be wrong but I think that currently - there is no easy way to see which post(s) exactly was/were negatively rated. If I must check all my old and new statements - well it could be still possible (should I have the time and good will so to do). For the most prolific posters among us however it would be quite a challenge. (also if I have 3 negative and 3 positive votes I could never know about that.)

But Even if I find the post which caused someone's anger or just a bit of disapproval to draw down upon me I could still be at a loss to derive the reasoning beyond that. So I trhink it would be better if after a minus was clicked it triggers a dialogue box asking for personal message for some (even one word explanation). And the vote is validated after that. I do not know how much it will be practically feasible however.

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Kalbear,

And here I thought personal attacks and insults to boarders were things we weren't supposed to tolerate. Now it can be done with perfect anonymity, without the ability to respond to the attack, and without consequense to the attacker. Lovely.

Dare I propose a sixth lot who don't think the board is Junior high, don't feel the need to be parented in it, and don't find that a system that is simultaneously obtuse and clinical has any place in a community where discussion flows very loosely over a range between totally academic to painfully personal?

Or does that mean i'm actually secret not popular but think i'm popular and really just want my crush to notice me?

Which is why I find it odd that its the people calling for the system to remain who are talking in terms of popularity and how easy it should be to ignore. I'm of the school that holds that "popularity" is not a concept usefully applicable to the board and the rankings do something more subversive by promoting conformity, opaquess, newby unfriendliness, confusion and suspicion. You could say, "hey, just brush it off", but I don't think humans tick that way. You have a clicky, judgy praxis, you become a clicky judgy person and community.

I ran out of clickies, both colours, so i'll do it the old-fashioned way.

I totally agree with the above! Let it be repeated so that it shan't be forgotten :bowdown:

Btw my reputation is "mostly harmless"? AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaah, break my heart, throw my liver to the dogs, I'd rather have 100 negatives than "harmless"!

Edited by niamh O'Toole

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I think the best way for people to express themselves is to write, especially in an online forum setting, rather than just to press a button.

However, sometimes I feel good about a thing, or just want to drop a negative on someone and, yeah, you know, I just really can't be bothered to stick around longer and explain myself. You can ask me, or you can figure it out.

Imagine we're standing in the same room having a conversation face to face. You say something really fucking asinine. I roll my eyes. It's really just not worth my time, or frankly, since I know you're not really going to listen to a word I say, yours, for me to stand there an additional ten minutes just to tell you everything that's wrong with your stupid idiotic bullshit statement, and I shouldn't fucking have to. I should be able to say, "Yeah, dickhead, you suck," in a single gesture and never have to give it another thought.

Where is that option here on this board? H'm. I think we've got it now.

OTOH, what also happens when you're face to face? Uh, you know who said it. Yeah, I rolled my eyes, and now I have to suffer that a lot of people may write me and say, "Hey, douchebag. Steve was making a perfectly valid point, you know, he's actually, what's the word, researched this stuff, instead of just picked up a few talking points (badly) and assimilating them (equally badly) under a misanthropic patchwork of logical fallacies. You don't just get to roll your eyes and walk away, you've got to explain your shit, or at least come out and say, 'I don't really know what the fuck I'm talking about.' ..."

And where is that aspect of conversation implemented here? Uh ... not at all.

Make us accountable for our pluses and minuses, and you're effectively adding yet one more layer of verisimilitude between this and real life. Yes, you are losing a little bit of the classy edge that makes these lofty environments occasionally stodgy and rarefied, but you open up a whole new vista of honest, if often superficial, expression.

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Btw my reputation is "mostly harmless"? AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaah, break my heart, throw my liver to the dogs, I'd rather have 100 negatives than "harmless"!

Hon, you either care about the rating system and your reputation, or you don't. Make up your mind. :P

*runs for the hills*

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No no no no Marx himself said economics is the base upon which the laws and values and culture the superstructure rest upon, that is fundamental communism, back to Marx 101 for you :P

<-----Philosophy grad

<-----Anti-philosophy practioner :P

And the answer to your question, stairs cos they keep me fit I love stairs well cool haha, elevator for me mum because she worked all her life as a cleaner and ruined her knees, but in a sense it was her choice, very hard worker my mum very proud of her :)

Mine too. Mums are great!

I think we might have a translation gap here, "values" in particular has more meanings in hebrew, but anyway you're right, of course, which is why I chose to call economics the skeleton of the building - from the way ones economic system works everything else derives, but my point is you can choose your building, and choose what values it embodies. Universal values - equality, justice, etc, are not derived from economics, but their expression is controlled by it. So thats why you have to change the economics to get anything done (you got to have your theories, yo) - but it dosen't make those principles less valuable as being "derived from economics", since as you said yourself, the expression of all and any principles is derived from economics.

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The people who have been rated down the most have been the mods

[nitpick] Actually, apart from Ran all the mods have a positive rep, including Angalin though I'm sure she hasn't actually posted since the rep system was created.

I realise I have now cursed us all to being negged to within an inch of our lives. No need to thank me, fellow mods. :P

EDIT: making it positive-only is the same as getting rid of it, as it makes it impossible to distinguish 'positive' from 'prominent' (and 'negative' from 'overlooked). Making it non-anonymous is the same as making it positive-only - because you can't vote people down if they can see you doing it (or you can, but it's likely to create a great deal of unpleasantness, bitterness and vendetta, so it's not a good idea).

Not sure I agree with either point. Taking away the negs means that some people who are now zero or negative will have a positive rep: there being no way, in that case, to cancel out a 'plus'. So, people who have (e.g.) controversial views, popular with a handful but deeply unpopular with the majority, will be more likely to get a positive rep if you make it positive-only. That's a significant difference. It makes it, in my view, worse than no system at all, because it's confusing and misleading. That's one reason I came round to being against the positive-only.

Making it non-anonymous wouldn't bother me - I've handed out a few negs and would be quite happy to defend each and every one of them. I appreciate that others might feel more constrained, but I can't see how this equates to getting rid of it altogether, which appears to be what you're saying.

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One point that has not been made yet.

There have been a good many posts from people saying variations of "the system is not serious, anonymously negging people can't possibly be considered a form of cyber bullying, people who get negged should just get over themselves."

Doing a quick search, all the people saying this appear to have positive reputations. I wonder if that is what they would really feel if they were on -20 or so. I also note that they seem mostly to be prominent members of the board who I would judge to be confident of the esteem of their peers.

Personally I would get slightly annoyed if my posts got negged. Disagree with me to my face if you are going to and tell me why. Or if you are doing it a joke, well I doubt that I personally would generally consider it particularly funny.

I also agree entirely with Ser Scot's posts.

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-17 here saying if you've got a neg rating get over it.

Someone out there didn't like something you said! On the internetse!! Oh noes!

Of course the converse applies, I can't think of much sadder than valuing yourself by cute little green numbers in the corner of a webpage.

EDIT: Not that I think many such people exist, but it's probably better not to open up the possibility.

This is a nice friendly community forum, on the whole I don't see why it needs ranking and ratings - like others have said, if you do/don't like something someone wrote, tell them. It's going to have more force that way and it's the human, honest thing to do.

Edited by Horza

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My posts get negged all the time, without any prompting from me, mind you, but I'm not exactly shitting bricks over the matter.

But I kid! I know that the negatives are in fact a mark of universal esteem and adoration for me, the Glorious Leader.

Thank you, my minions peeps!

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My posts get negged all the time, without any prompting from me, mind you, but I'm not exactly shitting bricks over the matter.

But I kid! I know that the negatives are in fact a mark of universal esteem and adoration for me, the Glorious Leader.

Thank you, my minions peeps!

Psst RanLord I'm out of negs, plz re-up so can add to your dark glory.

yr loyal servant Horza

TINC

Edited by Horza

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-17 here saying if you've got a neg rating get over it.

Someone out there didn't like something you said! On the internetse!! Oh noes!

Of course the converse applies, I can't think of much sadder than valuing yourself by cute little green numbers in the corner of a webpage.

I they have no value, why have them? :bang:

However, people are using them, and so they do have value. Personally, I don't see my or anyone else contriubutions to the board as a commodity and do not appreciate the attitude that it needs to be valued.

I admit making fun of Ran is...well, fun. But what about a newbie who comes to the board, sees that posts do get serious rankings, and then has to figure out whats wrong with this universaly reviled Ran character? (Adherence to notions of the divine right of kings, they'd probably conclude.) We could have a rule going "system is to be used in ironic/jokey manner only", but then someone has to acually police its usage in serious threads. (And how do you decide whats a serious thread anyway?)

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Of course the converse applies, I can't think of much sadder than valuing yourself by cute little green numbers in the corner of a webpage.

basks in self-satisfied glow

...er, shit, no, not that! I mean scrap the wretched thing!

I voted for Maybe, wanting an end to the anonymity of it, but some of the reactions in this thread are swaying me towards a No, much as I'm enjoying my (many years overdue) status as Prom Queen. The +/- thing may just be a little clicky box, but behind every negative click is a person you know, who can't even be bothered to argue with you face-to-face; it shouldn't be so damn hard to understand how this could upset some people. We're not just a bunch of strangers on a news site, this is a community with friends and rivals and cliques and histories, and I just don't think it's an appropriate place for this kind of rating system.

(and, my +93 pwns your -17, so I must be right!)

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I have no problem with people -1ing my posts, so long as I know why they've done it. Waiving anonymity would help, as I feel that in most cases, on seeing who had given me a negative rating, I could probably figure out why, as I feel I know enough about the opinions of most boarders to be able to do that.

At the moment I generally seem to use positive ratings on posts where I strongly agree with what has been written, and particularly on posts where someone has written exactly what I would have written myself, except they've done it far more eloquently.

I've been using negs mostly for posts which I find offensive (like that lovely Margaery/Renly one linked earlier).

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Ok here is my take.

I like the feature. Its not even an agree or disagree thing. If someone has a well reasoned, well written post that I disagree with, I might still want to + them. At the same time I could agree with the substance of someones post, but it could be so horribly written that I'd want to give it a minus. I greatly prefer this to typing out a post that says this post rocks or this post sucks.

For me, I'm rating the post, not the person who made the post. Perhaps the the feature could be set so only mods/admins can see someone's overall vote total.

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Hey, you know, watching Glee last night made me think of these "new and improved" ratings:

If you have a + over 50, Prom Queen or King

If you have a + over 30, Cheerleader/Football Captain

If you have a + over 10, Straight A Student

If you have a 0 rating, Underclassman

If you have a - of at least 10, Chess Club Member

If you have a - of at least 30, Academic Decathlon Member

If you have a - of at 50, Drama/Glee Club Member

What's the harm in that? I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't want to be part of the Drama or Glee Club, myself. :P

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Hon, you either care about the rating system and your reputation, or you don't. Make up your mind. :P

*runs for the hills*

You confuse me with somebody else. I care about it very much, I want this thing burned down and piloried in public. The fact that a certain very unpleasant poster has a cooler title than me is just the final nail in the coffin.

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