Is Robert Jordan a Sell-out?

[Werthead]

This thread is generating feelings of deja vu.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

I blame Zak. Well, okay, I blame Pod but I think it's Zak's fault.

[kastor]

Robert Jordan is a sellout. I believe it, and don't feel the need to prove it because anyone with a lick of common sense already knows it. My opinion is very much based on the fact that I believe it, so that must make it true.

[Lyanna Stark]

thats your opinion. but i disagree. we have children coming into these forums and if they see peopel they admrie making declaritive statments "jordan is this. z is this x is that" and so on. its going to affect their world view.

Well, isn't that for the better? Anything that can change their world view to the better falls, IMHO, into the category "Very Good Thing".

But maybe that's just me. And did I add "my opinion"? If I didn't let me do that now.

[Jaxom 1974]

Oh Mylanta...I think we're finding a potentiqal thread for "Fastest to Get Shut Down"...Any Yankee threads over on the Misc. Board yet...?

Just for fun...from Webster's Online:

Main Entry: opin·ion

Pronunciation: &-'pin-y&n

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari

1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM

2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view

3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

- opin·ioned /-y&nd/ adjective

synonyms OPINION, VIEW, BELIEF, CONVICTION, PERSUASION, SENTIMENT mean a judgment one holds as true. OPINION implies a conclusion thought out yet open to dispute <each expert seemed to have a different opinion>. VIEW suggests a subjective opinion <very assertive in stating his views>. BELIEF implies often deliberate acceptance and intellectual assent <a firm belief in her party's platform>. CONVICTION applies to a firmly and seriously held belief <the conviction that animal life is as sacred as human>. PERSUASION suggests a belief grounded on assurance (as by evidence) of its truth <was of the persuasion that everything changes>. SENTIMENT suggests a settled opinion reflective of one's feelings <her feminist sentiments are well-known>.

I've bolded certain parts for emphasis...no where in that definition does the word "fact" appear...

That being said though, discussion, by it's very nature, will invite differing opinions of which each party might just believe to be true...doesn't make it so...but that's human nature...

It is my OPINION that mabye we should put this puppy to rest...at least until we're all settled in here...

[Jagged]

Wow, I can barely even tell it's a horse anymore.

There are children here, o **** I didn't know. How young? Just curious I really have no intention of censoring my language.

And I would recommend you stop crying wolf on personal insults that never happened or you will swiftly find your posts being reported.

Yah, that'll scare him.

[Guest OsRavan]

i already explaiend what i thoguht was a personal insult. scroll abck up and look.

and goign i think or i tohguht clearly signifies its an opnion nto a fact. otherwise i would go it is. that seems rather blatantly obviouse.

and i have no problem and encoruage peopel to form their own opinions as long as they dont confuse their baseless opinions for facts

[Eurytus]

i already explaiend what i thoguht was a personal insult. scroll abck up and look.

Well since that referred to insanity and was something I never said I am at a loss as to why you would decide to direct the insults accusation at me.

and goign i think or i tohguht clearly signifies its an opnion nto a fact. otherwise i would go it is. that seems rather blatantly obviouse.

The person you originally lambasted for giving opinion as fact used the words "I thought".

So I fail to see why you have a problem with what he said given that "goign i think or i tohguht clearly signifies its an opnion".

[Guest OsRavan]

read the two posts. you know why. You are not an idiot. you are actually ratheri ntelligent. if you read the two posts you will see what i meant quite clearly. in fact im sure you *already* do. otherwise you wouldnt be sitting here playing little semantic games with me instead of debating the actual point or (as most people actually do) admitting i was right

[Eurytus]

What a pity you don't have the courage to;

A. Take back your accusations of me insulting you which were a lie.

and

B. Realise that your defence of your own statement because it includes the word "think" is hypocritical in the extreme given that you don't extend the same principles to someone else who used the word "thought".

Since you have decided not to retract your lie I am done with you.

I do not debate with liars.

[Guest OsRavan]

too bad tou cant

a) have the ocurage to apolgoize for all the times you leveled persoanl insutls at me.

actually *Read* statmentsi n quesiton. for isntnace if i go. "I thought you were foolish. And Jordan is a sellout" uits differnt form going "I thoguht jordan was a sellout?"

grasp?

[Eurytus]

I do not debate with liars.

[Guest OsRavan]

well dont debate with yourself then and all should be well

i'll edit to add what you jsut said is an exmaple of a persoanl insult

[Shaun Snow]

I don't care really, Knife of Dreams was his best book in ages but I was still bored and irritated by it more than anything else. I just wanted a place to run a sig test in.

[Ran]

Os,

Quit posting on this thread, please. Or ignore Eurytus. Or something. I don't want to see yet another series of these exchanges from you (the both of you, in fact; Eurytus, go ahead and ignore Os if you have to).

[TerraPrime]

I, too, have come to the same conclusion. The new board offers the "ignore" function. Please use it. Consider yourselves a test case.

[Teri]

In my opinion Jordan is not a sell-out. A sell-out is someone who writes what people want to read in order to increase sales, even though it is not up to his or her personal standards.

I think Jordan for the most part writes to his personal standards rather than his perception of what readers (or editors) are asking for.

But he has certain blinders which keep him from recognizing the extent to which many of the criticisms of his work are valid. This [imo] in turn keeps him from making any effort to improve his writing, because in his eyes it is already perfect. For example, whenever anyone comments that they think his women are unrealistic or irritating, he pulls out a story about how some woman approached him at a signing for Eye of the World and told him that she thought Robert Jordan was a pen name for a woman because he writes women so well. Apparently that one woman's compliment supercedes any other complaints he has heard from thousands of other women over the years.

His [imo] monumental ego also contributes to the expansive bloated nature of his books, since [imo] he is in love with his own writing and cannot bear to trim it as much as it should be. (I'm not saying he never edits anything out, but much less than would be called for by a more objective assessment.)

*********

In my opinion, we need an "in my opinion" smiley. Maybe an Os-av with a pacifier?

[Kalbear]

Insanity is described as doing the same action and expecting a different result. At least, that's what I think it is.

Just an observation, not aimed at anyone in particular.

[groundmeat]

Just dropped by to add my additional $0.02

While Teri Pettit makes sense, I have to say that now I have confirmed with 100% certainty that it was, indeed, settled years ago that RJ is a sellout.

So I must rescind my previous comment and say, for the record, that I no longer think RJ is a sellout, but know for a proven fact that he is a sellout.

I am currently considering whether he is a hack too. I think it was settled years ago that he is a hack, but I'll have to get back on that.

[MeanMrMustard]

He's a horrible person and an even worse writer.

Are we all agreed?