Olympics - All around discussion

[kairparavel]

Bashing in the windows of The Bay isn't going to get the protesters any closer to garnering sympathy (not that sympathy is what they seek) or respect and a chance to have people actually listen to their message. It's just going to get the average person up in arms about 'that element' of society who vandalize and don't care about other people's property. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.

The gentrification of Vancouver, the sequestering and shuffling around and basic ignoring of the poor, addicted, homeless and mentally disabled isn't right, and it certainly isn't anything new in the history of the Olympics. That the games are being held on stolen native lands is another issue entirely. Go ahead and protest. Invite as many protesting buddies as you can. Mobilize around the area. Scream. Chant. Hold up placards. Get in the way even. I don't have a problem with any of that and I don't think the average person would. But when you start vandalizing other people's property, because you aren't happy with the situation or because you aren't getting your way, you're one brick or rock or whatever away from being an assault on things to an assault on people, and that's where you lose me and most other people. And it's guaranteed that even the most logical and correct argument is going to be totally overlooked.

And quite frankly, when you invite as many people as possible to show up at your protest, odds are not every person who shows up shares your beliefs, your agenda or your ideas on how a protest should go down. Some are there to break shit and be assholes, which no doubt happened today. Unfortunately, the face of it all is the Olympics Resistance Networks, not 'Arseholes With Tire Irons and Bricks Who Want To Bust Shit Up' and until the protest organizers realizes that, nothing they say or do will be legitimate to me, because they're willing to muddle their message with possible violence.

[kairparavel]

This is public money, after all, and it is simply (and predictably) being shifted to the rich, while those people who most need help are being simply (and predictably) fucked.

Like it or not, public money goes both ways. I don't have time to poll the entire tax paying body but I'm certain given that the country hasn't emptied out from St. John and westward to head to Vancouver to protest, at least some of that public who have paid into it, are ok with it.

[Thor85]

So you believe that our nation should waste it's money on frivolous events like the opening ceremonies, rather than maintain needed social programs in the midst of a recession, while the government is locked in the throes of a deficit?

But if Canada, among the richest nations in the world (G8 member) shouldn't have been allowed to host the Olympics because they would undercut the government funding for other more important social programs, fighting homelessness, etc. then what nation should be allowed to host the Games in the future? America certainly has a lot of its own economic problems. And not to mention that the same protesters would probably show up if the Summer Games were awarded to New York or something. In fact every country has its own economic/social problems. So do you simply postpone Olympic celebrations/opening ceremonies or the Games completely until all those potential host countries work their problems out?

And oh ya! Other rich nations are probably not spending enough money on fighting climate change. So why do we, silly humans, even continue wasting world's money on something as frivolous at the Olympics? Why waste money investing in sports, arts or space exploration? Because it gives life more meaning than the more simple drive to survive and live another day.

[Nas!]

Bashing in the windows of The Bay isn't going to get the protesters any closer to garnering sympathy (not that sympathy is what they seek) or respect and a chance to have people actually listen to their message. It's just going to get the average person up in arms about 'that element' of society who vandalize and don't care about other people's property. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.

The gentrification of Vancouver, the sequestering and shuffling around and basic ignoring of the poor, addicted, homeless and mentally disabled isn't right, and it certainly isn't anything new in the history of the Olympics. That the games are being held on stolen native lands is another issue entirely. Go ahead and protest. Invite as many protesting buddies as you can. Mobilize around the area. Scream. Chant. Hold up placards. Get in the way even. I don't have a problem with any of that and I don't think the average person would. But when you start vandalizing other people's property, because you aren't happy with the situation or because you aren't getting your way, you're one brick or rock or whatever away from being an assault on things to an assault on people, and that's where you lose me and most other people. And it's guaranteed that even the most logical and correct argument is going to be totally overlooked.

And quite frankly, when you invite as many people as possible to show up at your protest, odds are not every person who shows up shares your beliefs, your agenda or your ideas on how a protest should go down. Some are there to break shit and be assholes, which no doubt happened today. Unfortunately, the face of it all is the Olympics Resistance Networks, not 'Arseholes With Tire Irons and Bricks Who Want To Bust Shit Up' and until the protest organizers realizes that, nothing they say or do will be legitimate to me, because they're willing to muddle their message with possible violence.

Do you really think it is a small step from assaulting a store window to assaulting a person? This distinction is the essence of the ideology that fueled this protest, I would think.

[kairparavel]

Do you really think it is a small step from assaulting a store window to assaulting a person? This distinction is the essence of the ideology that fueled this protest, I would think.

It's a group of people, probably full of strangers, out there in a mob to create a hubbub. It's not going to take much for one of the non-affiliated with the ORN types who show up to escalate within the mob mentality. Especially when it somehow becomes acceptable to destroy someone else's property to get your point across. We threw a rock at your window. Oh, that didn't get a response? We threw a rock at you. Think I'm exaggerating? We're only at day one of the events, day two overall. Get back to me in 12 more days and we can see how over the top I was.

[Lord of Oop North]

And oh ya! Other rich nations are probably not spending enough money on fighting climate change. So why do we, silly humans, even continue wasting world's money on something as frivolous at the Olympics? Why waste money investing in sports, arts or space exploration? Because it gives life more meaning than the more simple drive to survive and live another day.

You are ignoring the point. The fact remains that we are hosting the Olympics, and we did in fact hold opening ceremonies. You just seem to think that we should have spent more money on that spectacle. The people of my country obviously disagree with how you think public funds should be spent. We put out a decent performance for a reasonable price, what the fuck more do you want?

[Thor85]

We put out a decent performance for a reasonable price, what the fuck more do you want?

I think you misunderstood my post :worried: . Where did I say that I thought that Canadians didn't spend enough? I was just arguing that it would be wrong to stop holding the opening ceremonies and/or the Games completely because of some protesters claiming that the Olympics are a huge unnecessary waste of money. Sure China's were way overkill in terms of grandiose spectacles but China is the lonely, bullied kid on the block who likes to act out sometimes so that's their problem. (And my earlier posts about mounties and comparisons with China were just jokes. I thought Vancouver's opening ceremony was great.)

[CelticKnight]

Why aren't I surprised that this thread has turned into an economic debate instead of what's actually going on in the olympics.

[Thor85]

Dang! Jenn Heil just missed the silver medal :( . She had such an amazing run though!

[kairparavel]

Why aren't I surprised that this thread has turned into an economic debate instead of what's actually going on in the olympics.

Because the economic implications of the Olympic host cities are important. However, the athletes should be front and centre.

The problems with the city and the social network exists with or without the Olympics and the money's already been spent.

I was on the edge of my seat watching moguls. Moguls!

That poor girl and all that pressure to be the first gold medallist on home soil. She shouldn't think any less of her silver accomplishment.

I can't imagine the overwhelming pressure on our speedskaters and the hockey (specifically men) teams.

[Thor85]

Because the economic implications of the Olympic host cities are important. However, the athletes should be front and centre.

The problems with the city and the social network exists with or without the Olympics and the money's already been spent.

Thank You. I was trying to bring across much the same feeling in my post and like how you "summarized" my own thoughts so elegantly in a few sentences :thumbsup: .

I was on the edge of my seat watching moguls. Moguls!

That poor girl and all that pressure to be the first gold medallist on home soil. She shouldn't think any less of her silver accomplishment.

The mogul competition has been the highlight of Olympics for me so far. I was cheering for Jenn too, as a fellow McGill alumni. I'm sure she was hoping for gold but winning silver at this level of competition is still simply amazing.

[Aemon Stark]

Because the economic implications of the Olympic host cities are important. However, the athletes should be front and centre.

The problems with the city and the social network exists with or without the Olympics and the money's already been spent.

Well. With any luck, Vancouver's ridiculously overpriced real estate market will undergo a long overdue correction. Not that that will do anything about the city's remaining rigid class divisions or ahistorical vapidness.

I was on the edge of my seat watching moguls. Moguls!

That poor girl and all that pressure to be the first gold medallist on home soil. She shouldn't think any less of her silver accomplishment.

I can't imagine the overwhelming pressure on our speedskaters and the hockey (specifically men) teams.

WTF was up with Brian Williams afterwards? Why the need to reiterate how even though she didn't win gold, she still won silver? It's a remarkable accomplishment for anyone at anytime, regardless of the fact that she was marginally behind the gold medal winner.

[Celtigo]

The Canadian women's hockey team won tonight against Slovakia by the nail biting scoreline of 18-0.

[Demonblade]

Did you see her after that last girl got first place? Poor Jen looked devastated, as if winning silver was shit. I mean, it's still a great accomplishment but she looked like she failed. I don't blame her, because somebody's gotta be first and she was one of our best chances at gold.

[Shryke]

Re: The "violent" protesters

Turns out, the people who broke up the windows are a bunch of well known "anarchists". About 30 of them showed up mid way through the protest, in black masks and outfits, broke some windows and took off. They are apparently well known to the police.

Damn those protesters!!!!

[TrueMetis]

The Canadian women's hockey team won tonight against Slovakia by the nail biting scoreline of 18-0.

I expected more from them to be honest. :cool4:

[Eyelesbarrow]

Just let me know when the competition between Johnny Weir vs PETA comes around. :P

[Shryke]

Stories are now saying maybe upwards of 200 crazy-anti-everything protesters.

[Calibandar]

The first Gold Medal for Dutch mega skater Sven Kramer is in. Americans Hedrick and Davis came in 11th and 12th respectively, disappointing. Fabris & Bokko, the other main opponents for Kramer ( well more likely those who could have finished second and third) also didn't make it to the podium.

Another gold medal expected for Sven in the 10km, no one is going to beat him. The Ice is heavy and slow in Vancouver, which very likely means we will not be seeing world records.

Shani Davis will hope to win Gold Medals in the 1000 and 1500 metres categories though, those distances are too short for Sven Kramer.

[Arthmail]

Well a "massasive jizz storm of money" pretty much defines Olympic Games (especially the summer ones). How else is a country to invite the world to its home and show some hospitality. You just can't host something as huge as the Olympics on a budget. So are you suggesting that we abandon this one age-old tradition that actually lets the world come together and forget the petty bickering and ethnic/racial animosities for once so that we can all enjoy some apolitical competition? It's not like Columbia or some other country, where 80 percent of the population is living in poverty, is hosting the Olympics. Canada is a relatively wealthy nation that can handle the financial responsibility of hosting the games while still looking after its own citizens, both the poor and the rich (the last time I checked Canada actually had universal health care). So I think that your argument along with that of these "protesters" just fails. But thanks for trying.

Well, firstly, its my country and we'll have to pay for this shit for decades. The notion that this is money that wouldn't be going towards social programs anyways is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING STUNTED. In the same paper that was extolling the olympics, the province was faced with possibly firing 800 teachers for lack of funding. All of the provinces right now are going through a massive budgetary downturn. BC has the highest child poverty rate in our entire country, but the games must go on, right? Brotherly love and all that. Lets ignore the poor kids, our segregation of the muslim countries, and a questionable war in Afghanistan. RELEASE THE PAGENTRY!

Abandon this age old tradition? If i actually believed it brought countries together, then no. All it does now is bring marketing people together. Sure, the athletes deserve some reward for all of their hard work. You know what we should do instead of blasting out billions of dollars on spectacle, though? Actually fucking pay them a living salary. Cut the cost of the olympics to a quarter of what it is, and actually focuse on, you know, the sports? Because we don't anymore. Its all about spectacle.

As for thanks for trying. Its my country, if you want to hold the fucking thing, have at it. Our relative wealth has nothing to do with it. Its like saying you make a decent enough wage to afford a Bugatti Vayron (sp). Even if you can, should you? Fuck no. It might go 407km an hour in a mangasm inducing burst of speed, but theres no place to drive the damned thing. There are better things to spend your money on.

But lets put into perspective what the cost of these games could have paid for instead. Given the financial woes of BC, i think its pretty relevant.

Healthcare: The cost of the Olympics could have funded the construction of 6 state of the art hospitals to replace St. Pauls.

Seismic Upgrades For Schools At Risk: The cost of the Olympics could have funded the entire budget of the seismic-upgrading program four times over for schools in British Columbia. As it stands now, only 32 out of hundreds of elementary and secondary schools have been upgraded as of last year.

Education: The cost of the Olympics could cover the four-year tuition fees of 345,383 UBC arts students or 314,004 UBC science students or 287,853 UBC engineering students or 100,963 UBC medical students.

The cost of the Olympics could pay the salaries of UBCs 587 full professors for 73 years.

The cost of the Olympics could cover the cost of educating every elementary and secondary student in the Province for roughly a year and a half.

Government: The cost of the Olympics could fund the Premiers office for 500 years.

The cost of the Olympics could have paid the entire public service payroll of British Columbia for 2 years.

The cost of the Olympics could have allowed the Provincial government to waive property tax for 6 years and sales tax for over a year.

The cost of the Olympics could have funded all of the social welfare programs on the Lower Eastside including food banks and social housing that receive Federal, Provincial, and Municipal funding for more than 16 years.

The cost of the Olympics could have built roughly 20,000 units of social housing.

The cost of the Olympics could have afforded the city the ability to hire 3,000 new police officers and pay them, with full benefits, for 20 years.

Security: On average, every family in British Columbia will be paying $300 towards security costs during the games. Spread out over the countrys entire population of 34 million, every Canadian would be paying $26 dollars.

During the games, the military presence in Vancouver will be the largest since the Second World War.

The total cost of security is more than VANOCs initial assessment of what the Olympics as a whole would cost.

$79 million dollars of the security budget is being used to house military and police personnel on three cruise ships.

Security costs include $29 million dollars for new computers and $6 million dollars for new radios.

BC Ferries will receive $15 million dollars for security upgrades even though no events are taking place on any of the coast islands to which they sail.

If you want some hospitality, just come on over. We're all nice people. There are plenty of nice places to go. Find a local travel agent and make sure to say thanks for everything.

We like it that way.

Note: The Lower East side, as highlighted in black, has some serious problems with the homeless. Especially people suffering from mental illness who have fallen through the cracks. It has long been an open secret, but now its just easier to push these people even further away. Perhaps we could send them to your country? You know, we'll put on the pagentry, you deal with our cast offs. Sounds fair to me.