Game 71.5

[House Targaryen]

You're all awake!

It is Day 6.

There are 6 of yo...

TheMalcolm? Wake up buddy, Malc? Are you alive Malc?? :(

TheMalcolm has died in his sleep.

It is day 6.

5 players remain: Kat, LCOTNW, Mentat, Mina Martell, Sir Thursday.

3 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

5 players have not voted: Kat, LCOTNW, Mentat, Mina Martell, Sir Thursday.

[LCOTNW]

LCOTNW, can you vote for night to end this?

I'll admit I kind of put my foot in my mouth there. Sir Thursday voted for me in part for speculating on the identity of a roled player, so I defended myself by saying, "Um...duh, by now we should know there are no surviving roles?" And there was still a tiny doubt in my mind that you could have been the finder and I'd blown your cover up, so it was safer to insist that you had no role. But I'd have felt better about you if you'd claimed to be trying to draw a NK rather than teaching me a stern lesson on the dangers of role speculation.

I think an evil player might have suggested the reversal of the lynch-and-vig order so as to look helpful. Going to night is a safe way to ruffle no feathers--and of course, you ended up following the crowd and voting for Ser Spidey, anyway. But if it's any consolation, I think you probably aren't Pebble's partner, although you're the clear number two option. (Mind you, it's probably in my best interest to push your lynch, since there's no way you'll ever vote Malc over me.)

But LC, can you deny that your behaviour has been pretty damn suspicious all game? And that you've been very wishy-washy, and spent more time talking about the set-up than attacking players? Is there a reason for that?

Also, why did you drop all those finder hints on Day Two?

No, I think you missed my point. What I did was use smileys and coy phrasing to point out that I did not admit I wasn't the finder and that there may indeed be a reason to be coy about who the finder might be. It was intended to serve both purposes to draw the NK and to subtlely (not sternly) remind you not to speculate about it. The only thing worse than doing it is reliving it. Still, I don't think I have played particularly poorly if you take that out of the equation. At least not dramatically worse. I would say I have been honest, rather than wishy-washy. The "If I were the finder" comments were poorly worded. On day 2, the discussion with Spidey was thoughtless in that regard. On day 3 I got caught up in that mess of my own making.

I am curious about your answer to my question. Do you really think a killer would rather give up a lynch so as to not "ruffle" any feathers by suggesting the possibility of a no lynch and then failing to support a viable lynch of an innocent when there isn't a CF? That's pretty timid play for a killer, especially on day 1.

Also do you objectively think it would have been better to form a lynchmob on someone other than Spider? Although, my suggestion might have "looked" helpful, but could it have been "actually helpful" if it hadn't been opposed?

[LCOTNW]

I need sleep. I can't think about this anymore tonight.

[Mentat]

Do you see me as a likely partner to Pebbles? Or are you just defaulting that I am a partner to Pebbles because you find the non-finder claim to be damning evidence and you believe Mina? I feel like you are ignoring or rationalizing the things I've done to help, while at the same time clearing others with your gut reactions.

Is there any reason you couldn't be partnered with Pebbles? You voted for her relatively early on day 4 (despite favoring a Mina lynch the previous day) but I think at that point Pebbles had pretty much thrown the towel. She wasn't expecting to live, all she wanted was us to lynch Mina the following day (which is who you voted for).

I can agree with you that Mina pointing out who could or couldn't be the finder at that point wasn't helpful, but at that point we needed a reveal, not another half-arsed claim like the one we lynched Spider for. I'm currently considering the whole thing a null-tell and consider you suspicious based on your lack of independent thinking and for not pushing any suspects of your own. You don't normally even bother to vote until the end of the day.

Anyway, we have two lynches left unless there are two evils and we miss the first lynch. I don't really feel thus inclined, but if anyone wants to argue a Kat-Sir Thursday partnership please go ahead. Otherwise I think I'll vote for LCOTNW today. I'll probably vote Kat over Sir Thursday the following day if the game doesn't end, though I guess I could be convinced. I won't vote Mina.

By the by, I'm proposing two possible subtitles for this game in Spoiler heaven:

Game 71.5: Finder Fiasco

or

Game 71.5: Mina is made to eat her own words repeatedly

[Kat]

See Mina? He's dead now.

I was trying to communicate, uh, sub-verbally (to clarify, this involved me glaring at the computer screen every time I read one of your posts) to shut up and stop arguing he was evil, or else the FM would never kill him. I did kind of suspect Mal, to be honest, but the only way to get him to be nightkilled was to say I'd never ever ever lynch him, and now it looks like the FM took care of that little piece of paranoia for me. It's like, the second best thing after killing me so I can go rest in piece (edit: I'll pretend like that was a pun and not a typo)/work on this proposal I'm supposed to be writing.

[Sir Thursday]

See Mina? He's dead now.

I was trying to communicate, uh, sub-verbally (to clarify, this involved me glaring at the computer screen every time I read one of your posts) to shut up and stop arguing he was evil, or else the FM would never kill him. I did kind of suspect Mal, to be honest, but the only way to get him to be nightkilled was to say I'd never ever ever lynch him, and now it looks like the FM took care of that little piece of paranoia for me. It's like, the second best thing after killing me so I can go rest in piece (edit: I'll pretend like that was a pun and not a typo)/work on this proposal I'm supposed to be writing.

Something we agree on :P. I was studiously avoiding trying to say anything doubting Malc, because if there's no doubt about him, then the killers have to get rid of him and I can rest easy about the possibility of a scum vig. For a while I thought Mina was going to ruin that though...

[Mentat]

No, I think you missed my point. What I did was use smileys and coy phrasing to point out that I did not admit I wasn't the finder and that there may indeed be a reason to be coy about who the finder might be. It was intended to serve both purposes to draw the NK and to subtlely (not sternly) remind you not to speculate about it. The only thing worse than doing it is reliving it. Still, I don't think I have played particularly poorly if you take that out of the equation. At least not dramatically worse. I would say I have been honest, rather than wishy-washy. The "If I were the finder" comments were poorly worded. On day 2, the discussion with Spidey was thoughtless in that regard. On day 3 I got caught up in that mess of my own making.

Yes, looking at all the finder hints in your posts prior to day 3 it's difficult to believe that there wasn't something going on. There are just loads of them, both Mina and I noticed.

[House Targaryen]

It is day 6.

5 players remain: Kat, LCOTNW, Mentat, Mina Martell, Sir Thursday.

3 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

5 players have not voted: Kat, LCOTNW, Mentat, Mina Martell, Sir Thursday.

[Sir Thursday]

Right, I'm here for about half an hour.

I want to hear from Mina now she no longer has a Malc to suspect. Thoughts, suspicions, etc.

I liked Kat's response to Malc's NK - it's the same reaction I'd had, and makes me feel quite a bit better about her.

So, Mentat or LCONTW. I must needs think on this.

[Sir Thursday]

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. We're at six players. If we lynch wrong today, then we'll be at four--meaning there will be only one more night-kill before endgame. Going to night will give us the same number of lynches, but an extra player will die. The only disadvantage is that the killer can get rid of an extra threat, and leave alive players who are more likely to support the mislynches they want to support. But I still love this plan.

Mind you, I suppose the killer could withhold. You know, withhold, because he didn't feel like killing the "CI" proven vig whom everyone refuses to lynch. Just because my scumhunting skills are so sharp that it's of the utmost importance to keep me distracted.

Well, if we'd lynched yesterday we'd have gone: lynch (5 remaining), NK (4), no lynch (4) NK (3). So 2 NKs.

The way we've done it goes: no lynch (6), NK (5), lynch (4), NK (3), so still 2 NKs.

[Mina Martell]

Well, this is embarrassing.

Should...

I don't know. I can try...um, making a case later this afternoon when I have more time. But should I even be playing anymore? Or should I just sit down, shut up, and vote for whoever you tell me to vote for?

You know, I was wondering why Kat was so blind to the possibility that Malc was evil for such flimsy reasons. The thought crossed my mind that maybe I should set him up as a nightkill...but I thought I was going to be lynched yesterday, so I might as well be open with all my thoughts...and I figured that Malc was so obviously evil that he wouldn't have died anyway... :blushing:

...Okay, you can at least grant me that Malc looked pretty suspicious, right?

Right? :(

In LC's favour, Malc did trust him. It could be a frame kill, but I think this was a pretty terrible choice from his POV. If he'd killed mentat, Malc and I would be whacking away at each other all day today. And Sir Thursday didn't want to vote LCOTNW, so everyone probably would have compromised on me. The next day, he could have killed Malc, wound up in a final three with Sir Thursday and Kat, and got Kat lynched.

But of course, if it isn't LCOTNW, that means that one of the players I've been giving a free pass to is the killer.

Anyway, I'm leaning toward voting LCOTNW today, but I'll try to keep an open mind. I'll be all mysterious over whose lynch I'd prefer in the final three if the game doesn't end with LC's death.

*cough*

...You guys are never going to let me live this down, will you.

[Mentat]

...You guys are never going to let me live this down, will you.

Pretty darn unlikely

[Kat]

If the game doesn't end after we lynch LC, and I'm in the final three, I'd probably lynch Mina. Sorry Mina; you sound innocent to me, but I can't get over the idea that not lynching both claimants to a role is a truly bad idea, and that you've almost pulled one on us. That being said, I suspect LCOTNW more.

[Mentat]

By the way, we all wasted half the day doing not much at all. This happens all the time in mafia, when we're tired and it's endgame and re-reads are exhausting and we feel everything is pretty much said and done... but it would be cool if we played endgame based on something other than gut. Just saying.

[Mina Martell]

I just realized that we really did have one finder, one two-shot healer, and one vig. Weird. That makes it likely that 1) the FM have a guard, or 2) there are 3 FM. 1) is strange, because I think I'd have been guarded on Night Three (although maybe the FM did withhold, because you'd have to be a pretty stupid FM to risk targeting Malc after a healer reveal). I think #2 is way too much, but you never know.

Off the top of my head, I'd rule out a Kat-LCOTNW partnership, and probably a Kat-Sir Thursday one (although they might have been distancing). I can see a Sir Thursday-LCOTNW partnership as plausible. Mentat has been under so little pressure that he could be partnered with anyone.

Again, I'm debating if I should show my hand. There's one person I think must be innocent, but I'd rather said person wasn't nightkilled.

And if anyone gets to endgame with me, I'd like...oh, fine, her, since Kat is the only one who suspects me, to give me a chance to speak in my defence. Because lynching both claimants only makes sense when you're not sure who's telling the truth and want to ensure a 100% chance of catching at least one FM. But in an endgame scenario, when there's no margin of error, you know that there's a 50-50 chance that any of the other guys can be evil. Since only one of me or Pebble can be evil, then if you think Pebble looks guiltier than I do, I actually have a less-than-50% chance of being evil. :P

[LCOTNW]

but it would be cool if we played endgame based on something other than gut. Just saying.

I can't find anything to defend myself that can't be WIFOM'd to death. What would you suggest that is not gut-based?

[Kat]

I just realized that we really did have one finder, one two-shot healer, and one vig. Weird. That makes it likely that 1) the FM have a guard, or 2) there are 3 FM. 1) is strange, because I think I'd have been guarded on Night Three (although maybe the FM did withhold, because you'd have to be a pretty stupid FM to risk targeting Malc after a healer reveal). I think #2 is way too much, but you never know.

Off the top of my head, I'd rule out a Kat-LCOTNW partnership, and probably a Kat-Sir Thursday one (although they might have been distancing). I can see a Sir Thursday-LCOTNW partnership as plausible. Mentat has been under so little pressure that he could be partnered with anyone.

Again, I'm debating if I should show my hand. There's one person I think must be innocent, but I'd rather said person wasn't nightkilled.

And if anyone gets to endgame with me, I'd like...oh, fine, her, since Kat is the only one who suspects me, to give me a chance to speak in my defence. Because lynching both claimants only makes sense when you're not sure who's telling the truth and want to ensure a 100% chance of catching at least one FM. But in an endgame scenario, when there's no margin of error, you know that there's a 50-50 chance that any of the other guys can be evil. Since only one of me or Pebble can be evil, then if you think Pebble looks guiltier than I do, I actually have a less-than-50% chance of being evil. :P

I'd give you a chance. Really, I'm pretty terrible at this game, and I don't suspect anyone anymore other than LC, so if he's not guilty, there's really nothing left I can be wrong about. (Well, on the other hand, I can point to one of the times in the game where I suspected every single player for one reason or another and pretend like I felt that way all along about the person(s) who are actually evil, right? :P)

[House Targaryen]

It is day 6.

5 players remain: Kat, LCOTNW, Mentat, Mina Martell, Sir Thursday.

3 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

1 vote for LCOTNW (Kat)

4 players have not voted: LCOTNW, Mentat, Mina Martell, Sir Thursday.

[Mentat]

I can't find anything to defend myself that can't be WIFOM'd to death. What would you suggest that is not gut-based?

Don't defend yourself. Show us someone who looks guilty and tell us why we should lynch them rather than you!!!!

I hate to sound patronizing (well, maybe hate is too strong a word... mild dislike would probably be more appropriate), but this is the typical attitude that really loses us games. Not lynching you gets us nowhere LCOTNW. What we need is someone who realize who the bad guys really are, if we're wrong and it isn't you.

I don't think you've really made much of a case on anyone all game, it's one of the reasons I suspect you so much, would you like to start now?

[Mina Martell]

I'd give you a chance. Really, I'm pretty terrible at this game, and I don't suspect anyone anymore other than LC, so if he's not guilty, there's really nothing left I can be wrong about. (Well, on the other hand, I can point to one of the times in the game where I suspected every single player for one reason or another and pretend like I felt that way all along about the person(s) who are actually evil, right? :P)

Hey! That was my plan for redeeming my pride. I thought of it first. Give it back! :spank: