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House Targaryen

AGOT Mafia Game 72 - Adventures Beyond The Wall

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Are you sucking up to Bracken? If so, why?

Nope. I'm not.

If I see you accused of being guilty looking because of an action that I feel makes you look innocent I'll stand up for you too. And should you stick your neck out and do something that could see you lynched, but equally increases our chance of winning regardless (such as violently pulling us into serious discussion) then I'll give your ego a little massage too.

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2 hours to modkill?

Unless I've missed something, we should have more in the region of 14 hours before modkills?

Sorry! You are right. In my head I accidentally switched AM and PM when looking at the starting post.

My bad.

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What have I done that gives you the impression that I don't want to pressure anybody?

You're attempting to stop me from pressuring Plumm. I don't give a fuck what the subject is, and whether or not you approve of it. That's irrelevant. You should just be happy that one player is questioning another player. If you're innocent, that makes your job easier.

If you have a problem with something I say, then come after me, no problem. But you're doing more than that - you're trying to declare a topic off limits, trying to cut off other conversations.

Give me a good reason to follow Grandison. Him being King is the wrong answer.

I never said you should follow Grandison. Is this concept really too difficult for you to understand? Kind of funny, for somebody who has been such an arrogant and obnoxious prick so far. :kiss:

This is the laziest way to try to throw attention off yourself and onto your attacker. OMGUS2.

:rolleyes: You are like a parody of a real player. Way over the top, and it's difficult to believe you are being genuine.

And I really don't care if you attacked me first. OMGUS is irrelevant. If you do something suspicious, then I'm going to call you out on it.

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Sorry! You are right. In my head I accidentally switched AM and PM when looking at the starting post.

My bad.

Interesting.

So you joined and thought we had what, 2 hours until modkills and not a great deal of time until we started picking lynch candidates?

And magically ended up with six posts, making you home dry on the Grandison "rule 2".

As I said, Interesting.

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If I see you accused of being guilty looking because of an action that I feel makes you look innocent I'll stand up for you too. And should you stick your neck out and do something that could see you lynched, but equally increases our chance of winning regardless (such as violently pulling us into serious discussion) then I'll give your ego a little massage too.

I don't think Bracken needs his ego massaged any more, kplsthx. Still, it's good to know you are out there defending the seemingly innocent who aren't in any danger and can take care of themselves.

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I don't think Bracken needs his ego massaged any more, kplsthx. Still, it's good to know you are out there defending the seemingly innocent who aren't in any danger and can take care of themselves.

Glad I make you feel safer at night, citizen!

I like to call myself Captain Cerwyn, Defender of the easily defended!

But seriously, it IS something that can be seen either way. A few games back the people doing is came under a lot of pressure because of it. Better to nip it in the bud while only one person is calling it scummy.

Anyway, mind answering my later observation?

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Anyway, mind answering my later observation?

What shall I say about it? That it is terribly insightful that I might be worried about modkill of 3 other players? That I thought I mightbe worried that I have 10+ hours until the end of the game day in which I have no responsibility to vote whatsoever? That I actually take Grandison's post seriously about lynching someone with low posts and that it is not simply a threat to get people to post more?

Nah, no comment.

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What shall I say about it? That it is terribly insightful that I might be worried about modkill of 3 other players? That I thought I mightbe worried that I have 10+ hours until the end of the game day in which I have no responsibility to vote whatsoever? That I actually take Grandison's post seriously about lynching someone with low posts and that it is not simply a threat to get people to post more?

Nah, no comment.

Okay. Just an idea, that's all.

I mean, we wouldn't want an over defensive reaction to it, after all!

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Grandison :bowdown:

Can he be king permanently? First against the wall come the revolution.

In other news :commie: how long has that been here?

I don't know if I've ever told you, but the only thing in this world worth living for is the knowledge that one day, in the future, we will all be able to be so much more than we currently are. Our imperfections will be cast aside in favour of perfect perfection. But will we understand where we will be when we get there? Perhaps, perhaps not, but the pursuit of the glories of the future allows man to struggle the toils and troubles of the present and edge closer to the tomorrow to end all tomorrows.

In troubled times I have been known to pontificate on matters technical. As I ruminate, the very core of my essence becomes unburdened by the physical as the mind moves on to that higher plateau. This frees the self to be what it is - we can after all never be anything other than what we are, although the potentialities involved in becoming something new can be tremendously exciting to those who do not embrace a deterministic future.

What happened to fun Grandison? :thumbsdown:

Funs over Vyrwel. Ready to play for real yet?

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Okay. Just an idea, that's all.

I mean, we wouldn't want an over defensive reaction to it, after all!

Well, not all of us have House Cerwyn to rush in to defend us.

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Funs over Vyrwel. Ready to play for real yet?

o.O

We have no reason to believe Vyrwel has actually been around, as in on the thread, after the RP phase ended.

The earliest it can be accused of crossing over was Grandy's post with the whole rule 2 thing. That was one post before Vyrwel's last. Really the thread took a while longer to truly pick up.

If Vyrwel comes back and doesn't contribute, or simply stays away 'til nightfall, we may have a reason to wonder. As things stand though, my personal theory is that he is away from the thread, doing other stuff. Like maybe eating, sleeping, working or partaking in a little light pornography.

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But surely you can see how some people will be more than happy to concentrate on the low posters because they have nothing better to offer, especially on day one?

If anybody just sits back and focuses on the low posters because of Rule 2 (or for any other reason, really), they are going to be suspicious. That's something I welcome - its a red flag that would get my attention. So the question is, why would you object to it, when its a chance to set somebody up for suspicious behavior?

Back to the "what?" - where did I say reaching 7 posts excludes you from suspicion? That would be an utterly ridiculous thing to say

Here's what you said -

There is also the point to consider that his partners (or masters) only need to make 7 posts before they are safe from his criteria, thus excluding them from everybody elses suspicion for the day.

Seems pretty clear that you are saying that making 7 posts would exclude a player from "everybody else's suspicion for the day".

And you also said -

The criteria has been set at those with 6 or fewer posts being up for the chop, and if there are even two or three who fall into that bracket, everyone else is going to be concentrating on a small volume of posts and not so much time on everyone else, as they just aren't the agenda for today.

Basically suggesting that we will mostly focus on players with 6 posts or less due to Rule 2.

The point I was attempting to make was that IF Grandison sticks to those parameters, then his HYPOTHETICAL partners/masters need only to reach that amount of posts and SOME people will ignore them for the rest of the day.

1) I didn't misrepresent your statement. I quoted it for you above - you said "everyone".

2) Again, if some people are taking the easy route and just focusing on low posters, then I see that as a good thing. We're trying to find suspicious behavior, and that would qualify.

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Wow. I guess I'm hopping on the "kill this guy" bandwagon too.

Seriously, I just don't get this post. It has a lot of words, yet says nothing.

I, too, hope for something slightly more substantial later. I've seen first roleplay posts with more content!

Don't like the bandwagon post here by Cerwyn (even if he acknowledged it). Beyond the fact that he jumped on what looks to be a convenient target, I'm also bothered by the awkward wording. Comes off as artificial. The use of 'wow' and 'seriously' and the exclamation point all seems very contrived.

What Bracken is doing is a classic way of moving us from the joke/roleplay phase to the real phase of the day. It always ends up looking slightly bad for the person doing it, but invariably helps us move on and actually start looking for badguys.

Right now, Bracken's heavy handed attack has lifted the game squarely into the serious phase in a way that talking about plans and seven posts in a nice happy agreeable way couldn't do so, and as such I thank him for it.

The game got serious before Bracken ever posted.

o.O

We have no reason to believe Vyrwel has actually been around, as in on the thread, after the RP phase ended.

The earliest it can be accused of crossing over was Grandy's post with the whole rule 2 thing. That was one post before Vyrwel's last. Really the thread took a while longer to truly pick up.

If Vyrwel comes back and doesn't contribute, or simply stays away 'til nightfall, we may have a reason to wonder. As things stand though, my personal theory is that he is away from the thread, doing other stuff. Like maybe eating, sleeping, working or partaking in a little light pornography.

Why are you so concerned about Vyrwel? Was there a reason to defend him and speculate on why he isn't posting?

Do you feel that Qorgyle's post to Vyrwel somehow makes Qorgyle more suspicious? If so, why?

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Oh, FFS.

That was a whole lot of nothing to catch up on. My head is spinning from reading everything, and I slept about three hours last night. I'm really not in a heavy-duty scumhunting mood.

Okay, already I'm starting to freak out. Everyone--and I mean everyone--is acting really damn scummy. Seriously. Could you all stop bickering about stupid shit and calling each other arrogant? And also, could you start casting votes? It's confusing to keep track of who suspects whom and who just dislikes whom. Being king was fun for about five seconds, but I wish just about anyone other than me was king right now. The whole plan (which I'll admit I was hoping for an excuse not to follow through on) doesn't work when 25% of the players haven't so much as looked at their role PMs right now. (I'd also support a deadline extension.) But I'm almost tempted to stick to it just because I'm a coward who doesn't want to make a hard decision on D1.

Seriously. The moment I drew king on D1, Piper should have rerolled. This is not funny.

I'm wondering how open I should be with my opinions, because I don't want the FM to know which bandwagons are safe to support. However, I will say this.

Back to the "what?" - where did I say reaching 7 posts excludes you from suspicion? That would be an utterly ridiculous thing to say, which is exactly why I said that Grandison has picked a seemingly arbitrary number to consider someone off the table in terms of contribution. I don't see how posting 6 times makes you any better than someone who posted 7.

I almost chose five or fewer posts. Instead I arbitrarily said six, simply because I thought five was setting the bar too low. Remember, in the demon game in which Mastema was modkilled after D1, he posted eight times. Seven posts in a day is barely anything--and since RP is over now, people are forced to contribute actual opinions. My goal was just to force everyone to provide enough content for us to read them.

That said...although I think that Plumm's prickliness in response to Bracken is pretty immature, I actually think his opposition to my idea is a point in his favour. He knows that I'm not going to get lynched today. If he's evil, he can easily just post seven times and escape my wrath. And yes, I think it was a very reasonable assumption to make that I might have been using the lynch-low-posters plan to get away with not lynching my masters/partner if they were among the active players (if you note my question to Harclay, it even occurred to me that my plan could be construed that way). Disagreeing with me about Mafia theory does not make him scum.

And what surprises me is that this fact hasn't occurred to Yarwyck, who's very quick to defend me (the one player with the power to decide who's lynched) but very quick to attack everyone else for rather small details (such as Cerwyn for using the words "Wow" and "seriously"). I know that D1 is when you call people on trivial stuff to provoke reactions, but TBH, I'm not getting a "probing for motivations" vibe. I'm getting a "digging up dirt to make people look bad" vibe. He's accused Cerwyn of defending Vyrwel and Bracken of distracting from the pressure on Plumm, but he's defended me quite a bit. (I mean, obviously, I agree with a lot of what he's saying, since the plan was my idea, but let me indulge my paranoia.)

Yarwyck, my gut reads aren't so great, so do you think this is a fair accusation? Also, what do you think about the point that an FM would try to get on the good side of the king? Do you suspect Plumm, or do you just disagree with his interpretation of Mafia theory?

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What Bracken is doing is a classic way of moving us from the joke/roleplay phase to the real phase of the day. It always ends up looking slightly bad for the person doing it, but invariably helps us move on and actually start looking for badguys.

Right now, Bracken's heavy handed attack has lifted the game squarely into the serious phase in a way that talking about plans and seven posts in a nice happy agreeable way couldn't do so, and as such I thank him for it.

But Darling, you know if you ever need me all you need do is whistle!

I don't remember whistling yet there you were. Not sure that it was necessary to deflect any negativity towards me, assuming you are being honest, this early...which makes me feel like it is not that honest.

That's ridiculous. It's not stifling conversation, because you can obviously talk about whatever you want to talk about. Nobody is stopping you. And beyond that, we've had maybe 3-4 posts on the subject. It certainly hasn't taken over the thread.

Yes, it would have been grand if we went around and around arguing the merits of lynching quiet posters. That would have really been a thrill and we would have found out a ton of information. It is an easy subject to bullshit about and is not likely to catch an FM actively defend quiet posters because a poster is quiet. With that particular topic, I see huge potential for waste and pretty much none for gain because it is easy to discuss without having any heart in it and without endangering partners (whether it be through a connection or adding suspicion).

The ironic thing is, you're actually the one who is trying to "stifle conversation", by trying to put a stop to the discussion. Is there some reason why you don't want me to question Plumm? Seems like you're trying to sidetrack me.

I would hope that I was directing the conversation rather than stifling it. I was squelching a topic that, as I've said, has more benefits for evils to discuss than innocents. Similar to discussing roles.

You're attempting to stop me from pressuring Plumm. I don't give a fuck what the subject is, and whether or not you approve of it. That's irrelevant. You should just be happy that one player is questioning another player. If you're innocent, that makes your job easier.

You can absolutely do what you want and maybe you are right. I was voicing my opinion. You know where I stand, so now go where you will and we will either butt heads for a game or we won't. We'll just have to see.

I never said you should follow Grandison. Is this concept really too difficult for you to understand? Kind of funny, for somebody who has been such an arrogant and obnoxious prick so far. :kiss:

You said Grandison asked us to discuss "Rule 2" and then you went and discussed it. I connected the dots that you wanted to follow what he wanted us to do. Was I wrong in thinking that?

:rolleyes: You are like a parody of a real player. Way over the top, and it's difficult to believe you are being genuine.

You wound me. Clearly there has to be a little bit of swagger at this point, frankly a lot of the discussion has to start with some bullshit nitpicking that you have to stake yourself to in order to get a real response.

And I really don't care if you attacked me first. OMGUS is irrelevant. If you do something suspicious, then I'm going to call you out on it.

Good, you should. If you didn't then I would be concerned. Like Cerwyn concerns me.

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I uh ... was at the whorehouse with Qorgyle. I just had more money to spend apparently. :smileysex:

I like that Grandison announced his intention of pressuring low posters. The King is all about pressure as no one else can bring it as convincingly. No one would have cared if I had said it early on, instead you would have pointed at me and laughed while possibly plotting my murder. My interpretation of Grandison's post was just that - pressure. I never took it as a serious mandate, but rather a place to start. It got us talking, so yay (no smart ass comments about 'us' please. I am well aware of my non-contribution up until now). If nothing else, it was a success for that.

I wanted to make a point about Cerwyn, but Yarwick beat me to it. Cerwyn defends Bracken on the basis that he was the one to turn this conversation serious and was getting heat for it. It was Plumm and someone else maybe? Pretty much anything Yarwick has said so far I've agreed with, except for possibly "yarr".

Dayne's post and run was not ideal, but not horrible in my eyes. I am willing to give that a pass for now pending further input.

I just want to reiterate the fact that Plumm was arguing that people could see making 7 posts as safe is just bad. He seemed to really get into detail about why he thought it was bad and it almost pushes the line of being forced. Like he wanted to be very careful with his words when defending his idea.

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I like that Grandison announced his intention of pressuring low posters. The King is all about pressure as no one else can bring it as convincingly. No one would have cared if I had said it early on, instead you would have pointed at me and laughed while possibly plotting my murder. My interpretation of Grandison's post was just that - pressure.

Pressure on who and what has been the ramifications of said pressure on the quiet group?

I never took it as a serious mandate, but rather a place to start. It got us talking, so yay (no smart ass comments about 'us' please. I am well aware of my non-contribution up until now). If nothing else, it was a success for that.

Wait, so a pressure != serious mandate? Lacking consistency here IMO.

I wanted to make a point about Cerwyn, but Yarwick beat me to it. Cerwyn defends Bracken on the basis that he was the one to turn this conversation serious and was getting heat for it. It was Plumm and someone else maybe? Pretty much anything Yarwick has said so far I've agreed with, except for possibly "yarr".

Good to hitch your wagon to Yarwyck, smart move.

Dayne's post and run was not ideal, but not horrible in my eyes. I am willing to give that a pass for now pending further input.

Not ideal would be one way of describing it. I guess Dayne didn't feel that pressure from the one person that gave it, eh?

I just want to reiterate the fact that Plumm was arguing that people could see making 7 posts as safe is just bad. He seemed to really get into detail about why he thought it was bad and it almost pushes the line of being forced. Like he wanted to be very careful with his words when defending his idea.

Why do you think an FM would put themselves out on the line with what you view as a foolish argument?

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And also, could you start casting votes? ... Being king was fun for about five seconds, but I wish just about anyone other than me was king right now.

Being King actually kind of sucks, so I feel for ya. I agree, voting is a good thing - helps the king, gives us info for later. I want to throw an idea out there - what if we were to all agree to post a tier at some point in the day. The votes we cast have very little accountability and will tell us less than normal. I figure tiers will help the king as much as a single vote from each of us, if not more. It is a way to hold ourselves accountable for our actions and seriously - tiers are always a helpful thing, Kingmaker game or not.

Yeah, it's kind of a pain, and I'm not going to automatically 'vote' for someone just because they don't post a tier, but I sure as hell will wonder why someone doesn't want to commit their thoughts to paper.

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Was it really necessary to spell this out? Did you think that your masters would be unable to understand?

How the hell is this:

Don't you think the whole point was to announce it now? My guess is that Grandison is trying to 1) force people to participate and 2) evaluate how people react and see if their participation looks forced just to escape the wrath of the King. Making an announcement is a necessary part of that.

a direction to his masters?

I am utterly baffled by Bracken's play at this point. Because FM usually aren't this rabidly aggressive, but he's very...um, erratic. And seems to enjoy commenting on every single throwaway sentence people write and finding a contrived reason for calling it scummy. I really can't make heads or tails of it.

I wanted to make a point about Cerwyn, but Yarwick beat me to it. Cerwyn defends Bracken on the basis that he was the one to turn this conversation serious and was getting heat for it. It was Plumm and someone else maybe?

Fair point. I didn't notice Yarwyck had called him on it before.

I have to get off the computer now. I'll try to set up the vote counter before I go to bed.

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