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Westeros Blog: Game of Thrones Budget


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* Magical creatures (dragons, Others)

* Animals (very well trained wolves including an albino, hordes of horses for the Dothraki)

* Massive battle scenes (Whispering Wood)

* Many smaller scenes requiring more work than talk scenes (duels, small scale fights, ravaging the Lhazareen town, Bran climbing, pouring molten gold over Viserys, Daenerys's weddimg, Drogo's pyre, wights attacking Mormont, Eddard's execution, and so on)

* Epic scenery (Winterfell, the Wall, KL, the Red Keep, the Eyrie, Pentos, Vaes Dothrak)

* Generally often changing locations so you cannot reuse, for example, the same room often

* Medieval costumes and props (If your want it to look good like in the Tudors and there are many more widely different cultures here)

* A very large cast

I wouldn't be so pessimistic. Fair point about the dragons, cast, scenery and animals but Whispering Wood doesn't have to be a big battle scene. It can be reduced to Catelyn and Jaime's attack on Robb. Similarly Drogo's raid. In the books, they only showed the consequences of the raid. No problem doing the same on TV.

I can't believe there is much of an issue with showing fights, or executions or pouring gold on somebody. These are run of the mill exercises.

Besides, HBO has given the go ahead for 1 season, so it must believe it can do at least the first season justice. It's got high standards to live up to after all. :)

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I&F has always been more duel and recount then knock down drag out battles (Blackwater and wall being the exseptions) which will work just fine for TV. Because really its all about how to right the fight more then anything. (Like how a BSG space battle is more people watching Dratis listing to the com chatter from the vipers.)

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I&F has always been more duel and recount then knock down drag out battles (Blackwater and wall being the exseptions) which will work just fine for TV. Because really its all about how to right the fight more then anything. (Like how a BSG space battle is more people watching Dratis listing to the com chatter from the vipers.)

Disagree, BSG had many fights shown on screen. To me if BSG can have these great visuals, GoT can have about the same if not better visual. The thing is that SF visuals might be easier (because of less ships) to do than represent a whole army of Knights on earth :)

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Disagree, BSG had many fights shown on screen. To me if BSG can have these great visuals, GoT can have about the same if not better visual. The thing is that SF visuals might be easier (because of less ships) to do than represent a whole army of Knights on earth :)

But a majority of the fight visuals were very quick, an explotion here, a viper shooting there, it was a lot of faces, both in and out of the cockpit. And they really did set an effects standard.

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Whispering Wood and Green Fork can be shot in ways that they will have minimal cost. It's already been said by people close to the production that the battles exist "mostly off screen," which is true when you read how they are depicted in the book.

Whispering Wood can be reduced to glimpses of knights and soldiers rushing back and forth through a dense forest and a lot of sound of combat. We experience the battle from Catelyn's POV in the book, and she's far from the action, hearing most of it and then receiving the battle report from Robb when it's all over. I think that could be a very interesting way of doing it on screen, as well. It's a new way of shooting a battle that can be compelling in its own way. Kurosawa did something like this in "Kagamusha," where we only hear a massive battle happening, while the camera focuses entirely on the face of the Shogun leading the battle as he gives orders and reacts to reports and what's happening around him. It's a really great scene.

Green Fork will have to show more action than that, but again it's just from Tyrion's POV in the book, so we only see one small corner of the battle. The rest is really lost in the fog of war, but for glimpses of Gregor leading Tywinn's reserves as they rush in after the shock of Tyrion's Van leading the charge. Once again, I think this could be a very interesting and unique way to show a battle on screen. It stays much more personal and on the character's POV than what we typically see, and that could be very refreshing. More a grunt's-eye view of medieval warfare, instead of the typical (and kind of dull, by now) shots of vast armies marching, banners waving, blah, blah. I've seen that so much since LotR I don't really find it exciting anymore. It was while watching "Kingdom of Heaven," that I realized that kind of thing had lost all excitement for me. I want to see the medieval equivalent of the opening of "Saving Private Ryan," which was a grunt's-eye view of war.

Keep the action on screen very similar to how it's depicted in the book and they could save millions on these battle scenes. Blackwater, however, could (and should) be very pricey, if they are to do it any justice.

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Brude,

"Kagemusha"

Brilliant film, and a brilliant scene. In fact, it's the one scene I remember with crystal clarity, despite having last seen the film more than a decade ago.

I would totally go for that with Catelyn.

But for the Green Fork, I'd still want the camera to sweep over both armies, just as Tyrion runs down the various battles on his father's side, and the thousands of northmen marching on them. I agree that once he joins Gregor with his clansmen, that the focus can narrow onto him, though, and we don't need to see thousands of people except maybe near the end to show the end game of the battle, Tywin's charge to break the last of the resistance, etc.

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I think they could cut out the actual battle of the Green Fork entirely. Just show the aftermath with Tyrion and Tywin talking about what happened. I don't think it's that important.

I'd rather they spent the money on the Hand's tourney. IMO that should be done on a grand scale and be the most expensive scene of the first series.

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Does that $45 mil dollars plus incentives include the pilot shot last year, or is it for the remainder of the season. If just for money spent this year for the series, that would be just for the nine remaining episodes. I agree with some that including the tax incentives and free rent would make the production costs at $53 mil total, divide that by nine and you get almost 6 mil per episode.

Also the cost of future seasons would be reduced or that money saved from the reuse of sets could go toward the battles, cgi, etc.

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I would take £30 million a year to include the pilot this year. That said, perhaps this year's budget is actually a little higher to cover the extra pilot costs.

My fairly firm take now is that the purchasing power of $45m with production primarily in Belfast is roughly equivalent to that of a $60m production in the U.S. I'm awaiting a response to a query to try and get a clearer answer.

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Green Fork will have to show more action than that, but again it's just from Tyrion's POV in the book, so we only see one small corner of the battle. The rest is really lost in the fog of war, but for glimpses of Gregor leading Tywinn's reserves as they rush in after the shock of Tyrion's Van leading the charge. Once again, I think this could be a very interesting and unique way to show a battle on screen. It stays much more personal and on the character's POV than what we typically see, and that could be very refreshing. More a grunt's-eye view of medieval warfare, instead of the typical (and kind of dull, by now) shots of vast armies marching, banners waving, blah, blah. I've seen that so much since LotR I don't really find it exciting anymore. It was while watching "Kingdom of Heaven," that I realized that kind of thing had lost all excitement for me. I want to see the medieval equivalent of the opening of "Saving Private Ryan," which was a grunt's-eye view of war.

This reminds me of the Battle of Waterloo in Sharpe's Waterloo, which ITV made for maybe a couple hundred grand at the most. They had maybe 60-70 extras (they kept swapping them between British and French uniforms) and no CGI to show sweeping vistas of grand armies (this was the mid-1990s). However, by keeping the POV character (Sharpe) involved in small corners of the battle (such as the battle for the farmhouse in the middle of the valley) and focusing on those local engagements, they were able to deliver something that was reasonably convincing. It was a little cheesy (especially compared to the early 1970s movie Waterloo with its tens of thousands of Russian soldiers serving as free extras), but you could certainly live with it.

But for the Green Fork, I'd still want the camera to sweep over both armies, just as Tyrion runs down the various battles on his father's side, and the thousands of northmen marching on them. I agree that once he joins Gregor with his clansmen, that the focus can narrow onto him, though, and we don't need to see thousands of people except maybe near the end to show the end game of the battle, Tywin's charge to break the last of the resistance, etc.

Returning to the earlier Philippi comparisons, there is a shot like this just before the battle, with the camera sitting above Antony and Claudius' army as it marches onto the field, then switching to another viewpoint of the two armies drawing up opposite one another (which was completely historically inaccurate to the real battle, which was half-fought in a marsh, but there you go) in a vaguely Total War-esque manner. So we know HBO's CGI team are certainly up to that, anyway.

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HBO doesn't have a CGI team, as such. My understanding is that like most productions these days, they'll take bids on the shots they need. Except, there seems to be a particular company taking lead on the pilot, and perhaps the rest of the show... but they aren't an HBO company, far as I'm aware. All I have is a name, and HBO has been rather cagey about providing more information about them at this stage.

I do know that there are third-party CG companies circling around the production, waiting to nab effects shots to do.

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Money shots for Games the first season, either large numbers of people or sweeping exterior shots incorporated with cgi. I am listing it from North to South then across the narrow sea.

1.) Exterior shots of Castle Black with the Wall towering above

2.) Top of the Wall looking out over the haunted forest (two shots)

3.) Exterior shots of Winterfell (already created cgi from pilot)

4.) Great hall of Winterfell during banquets (several shots)(set existing form pilot)

5.) Massive endless crypt of Winterfell (two shots) (set existing from pilot)

6.) Moat Cailin

7.) Darry's Castle exterior

8.) Darry's Castle hall

9.) Battle of the Green Fork's (Most money)

10.) Bloody Gate

11.) Mountains of the Moon looking out over the Vale

12.) The Moon Gate

13.) The Eyrie exterior shot

14.) Duel in Godswood of Eyrie

15.) Great hall of Eryie (two shots)

16.) Shots of Storm's Dancer journeying to K.L.

17.) Shots of K.L., Great Sept and the Red Keep from Storm Dancer's deck

18.) The Dock's of K.L.

19.) Red Keep throne room

20.) Tourney of the Hand (2nd most money)

21.) Ned riding thru K.L. streets on the way to see Gendry at smithy (this shot lets you see the size of K.L.)

22.) Great Sept exterior (we all know what this scene is)

23.) Exterior shot of Pentos (already shot)

24.) Dany and Drogo's wedding (already shot)

25.) The Dothraki sea shots

26.) Exterior shot Mother of Mountain with city at base as Dany enters under the horse gate

27.) Market place scene with Dany

27.) Golden crown scene

28.) Funeral pyre

Now that I list them that is a hell of a lot of money shots, lol, that doesn't include any possible flashback shots (Battle of Trident, or that cool cgi map of Westeros they use for setting the scenes) Any others I might have missed?

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Some of those can surely be done without

1.) Exterior shots of Castle Black with the Wall towering above [Ok this is likely needed]

2.) Top of the Wall looking out over the haunted forest (two shots)

3.) Exterior shots of Winterfell (already created cgi from pilot)

4.) Great hall of Winterfell during banquets (several shots)(set existing form pilot)

5.) Massive endless crypt of Winterfell (two shots) (set existing from pilot)

6.) Moat Cailin [Not really necessary]

7.) Darry's Castle exterior [Not really necessary, it doesn't really matter where they are]

8.) Darry's Castle hall [iIRC this is described to be quite small]

9.) Battle of the Green Fork's (Most money)

10.) Bloody Gate [Can be skipped entirely, just have Catelyn and co. meet up with the Blackfish]

11.) Mountains of the Moon looking out over the Vale

12.) The Moon Gate [Just a shot of sky behind a door, shouldn't be to much]

13.) The Eyrie exterior shot

13b.) Tyrions view from the sky cells [Added my own :)]

14.) Duel in Godswood of Eyrie

15.) Great hall of Eryie (two shots)

16.) Shots of Storm's Dancer journeying to K.L. [Can just be done with them travelling in a cabin. I think they did this in Rome]

17.) Shots of K.L., Great Sept and the Red Keep from Storm Dancer's deck [Can just be made as a general stock establishing shot]

18.) The Dock's of K.L. [Don't have to show them disembarking, may be combined with set from 21.]

19.) Red Keep throne room

20.) Tourney of the Hand (2nd most money)

21.) Ned riding thru K.L. streets on the way to see Gendry at smithy (this shot lets you see the size of K.L.)

22.) Great Sept exterior (we all know what this scene is)

23.) Exterior shot of Pentos (already shot)

24.) Dany and Drogo's wedding (already shot)

25.) The Dothraki sea shots [Just a bunch of grass. They can use the Windows XP desktop :P. Khalasar might be a different story]

26.) Exterior shot Mother of Mountain with city at base as Dany enters under the horse gate [unfortunately I think this is an important and expensive shot, for a place we spent so little time]

27.) Market place scene with Dany

27.) Golden crown scene

28.) Funeral pyre

Add to that that some of these are one time investments. For instance the Red Keep throne room, various KL establishing shots, Eryie stuff.

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How can Moat Cailin not be necessary, its where Catlyn meets up with Robb finally.

I can see just shooting Storm' Dancer scenes in the cabin.

The location there isn't really important. It only becomes so with the ironmen invasion. OTOH I am contradicting myself a bit here in regards to another thread were I said I like that sort of 'early introduction <-> later recognition. Still, I can live with it if it cuts the costs dramatically.

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I keep hoping that with a $4.5m budget (which may be equivalent to as much as $6m when compared to costs in the U.S.), they won't have to cut all this stuff. If Lucas thinks he can make a Star Wars live action TV show for $2-$4m an episode in Australia (which I'm guessing has comparable costs to N.I.) and he says it'll look like it cost $20M per hour, I don't see why they can't do this. Go the opposite route from Rome, and take a page from John Adams -- a whole lot of digital compositing can go a long way of creating cheap vistas.

The Young Indiana Jones Chronicle cost, what, $1.5 an episode 15 years ago? And that one looked terrific, half way to film, with a lot of matte paintings and digital compositing (by the standards of the time) to give epic panoramas of the various locales Indy found himself in. It also had some of the first digital actors used to create crowd scenes in television, IIRC.

I guess a lot will depend on the skills of the VFX people, and the vision of the producers and the directors they hire. I'm hopeful they'll be able to see their way clear to making use of the technology they have on hand quite a lot. But we shall see.

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I guess Darry castle scenes can be just as well acomplished by using encampment with Roberts tent in place of castle hall.

Also Bloody Gate is only a one shot scene, it just looks cool, with the pass opening on the gate flanked by 2 towers anchored to the pass walls with the bridge behind going over a deep ravine that leads to the overlook onto the Vale, whew. You could instead of a set use a cgi effects shot with the camera moving toward gate and thru then over bridge then closing on the overlook where Catlyn troupe trots up to Blackfish who is waiting there instead of at the gate. He can welcome them there and sweep his arm over the vista behind him. This would be shorter and less expensive than meeting him at a set of the gate, following them thru and over bridge to overlook.

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Darry is easy: take one of the castle room sets, dress up as the Darry hall, and then just use an exterior shot taken by a second unit of some random Irish castle. Voila, you establish Darry castle at very low cost indeed. :)

The Tudors does this all the time. There's a dozen different places they can establish with a couple of stock shots, and then you go in and it's just redressed set that might be used for random hallways and rooms in other places.

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Yeah, all the random halls and castles that are locations throughout the series can be done with quick establishing shots of existing places, then set dressing some actual castle room somewhere as a new place. They could also do some generic castle interiors on the sound stage, with walls that can easily be shifted redressed, etc., that can double for any number of locations. When done well, you'd never know it's the same space being used over and over again. Changes in lighting, color palette, new furniture, a new tapestry on the wall here or there can make a room into a completely new place or a dozen new places.

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