Anti-Feminist Anger

[Ser Reptitious]

The "Angry Feminist" thread got me thinking: Why is there seemingly still so much anger (often bordering on outright hatred) towards feminism out there? After all, I don't think you will find too many people, particularly in the Western world, that openly argue against full equality of the sexes. So what gives?

Sure, just like any other -ism movement out there, feminism has its radical fringe that tends to go overboard. But such a tiny group of radicals should be easy enough to laugh or shrug off whenever they enter the headlines, right? (I would put feminists that insist on using words such as "womyn" and "hertory" into that category, just as an example.)

But there seems to be a tendency out there, as exhibited by the other thread, to try to downplay any concern that feminists raise these days as trivial, yet (as TerraPrime pointed out very well in the other thread), if the matter is really so trivial, then why not make the change? What's the big deal?

This is purely anecdotal (and just an observation, so please don't jump all over me if you disagree!), but I have noticed in RL that those of my friends that tend to feel strong anger towards feminists are often the guys who are most awkward around women (and consequently have difficulty getting into a relationship, which usually seems to be something they badly want). Somehow this all seems to be the feminists' fault. If it wasn't for them corrupting today's girls with their man-hating rhethoric, then they (the guys) would have been in a happy relationship long ago! (Of course, they don't say that out loud, but it's easy to connect the dots of their thinking, IMO.)

I also wonder if they perhaps feel that their inability to "pick up" makes them feel that they have to act all the more macho in order to compensate?

One of the aforementioned guy friends of mine recently posted an article on his facebook profile that he thought was just great (here's the link to the article). I found the blantant sexism absolutely mind-blowing, but the most amazing part (to me) was that nowhere does the article even make the slightest acknowledgement that women were once anything less than equal. There almost seems to be an indication that everything had been just fine and dandy in the past, until those uppity feminists had to come along and spoil everything! And I think that there is still a scary proportion of men out there that think exactly that, even in our supposedly enlightened part of the world!

What's your views on this?

[sologdin]

it's sour grapes. feminism is generally de jure victorious in the west. the losers can't stand having lost.

[Chaldanya]

Anti-feminist anger is predicated on one main thing - those with privilege not wanting to examine that privilege and fighting to keep it.

N

[MinDonner]

:lol: Not even I could have started a thread calling all anti-feminists sad and desperate girlfriend-less losers, that's almost worth getting the popcorn out for. Defensive hackles up in 3... 2... 1....

But anyway. A whole lot of it seems to be of the mindset that goes "Well I can't see anything offensive in X, so therefore you must be imagining it, and spoiling my fun for no reason". I wouldn't even call this deliberate misogyny, just blinkered privilege; sexism is so ingrained in society's fabric (and language) that it's easy to hide in plain sight, especially when it doesn't impact you directly. And no-one likes a killjoy.

*kills some joy*

[Tempra]

I think it has more to do with who we label a feminist. Most (all?) women believe in equality, yet a great many reject the feminist label.

[MinDonner]

...and you don't think some might deliberately reject the label because of all that ubiquitous "OMG feminists are shrill evil man-hating extremist harpies!!one!" rhetoric?

[sologdin]

great many reject the feminist label.

well, no one ever thought that the sisters of delta delta delta were carryng the torch of the feminist movement while they participated in wet t-shirt bukkake contests at last weekend's mixer.

[gladius]

I'm not against equality or angry about feminism, but i find it disappointing and misguided (like many other movements)

I see it as a pretty insidious form of Stockholm syndrome, where women want to be a part of the system that oppressed/oppresses them and in so doing perpetrate it. The system will keep evolving to accommodate small victories, but it's inherently rotten and it's nature can't be changed.

It must be removed.

[Datepalm]

I encounter teenage girls pretty often that are either embarassed by being feminists or rebellious about it, like its dying their hair green and embracing radical veganism. This is both frustrating and weird since growing up feminist was something of a default for girls. Almost boring.

on topic - i'm not sure if i'd label resistance to things like the anthem changing so much the scope of rabid, emascualted anti feminists as people who are sort of...conservative in the sense of looking backwards and nostalgic, and see things like changing anthems to be political correctness run amuck and not hitting on random strangers as taking the spontaneuity out of romance and so on.

[Tempra]

...and you don't think some might deliberately reject the label because of all that ubiquitous "OMG feminists are shrill evil man-hating extremist harpies!!one!" rhetoric?

At some point, feminists need to take responsibility for their own actions.

[Chaldanya]

At some point, feminists need to take responsibility for their own actions.

I'll just plug into the hive mind and let all the other feminists know that's what we should do.

Thanks for telling us how feminism should work.

N

[MinDonner]

Wait, you're holding me responsible for every wingnut statement made by every feminist everywhere, regardless of actual beliefs or nationality? Shall I do the same to you and misogynists? Take responsibility for your own damn actions. :rolleyes:

It's OK, I was just joking!

[a wooden chair]

Sure, just like any other -ism movement out there, feminism has its radical fringe that tends to go overboard. But such a tiny group of radicals should be easy enough to laugh or shrug off whenever they enter the headlines, right? (I would put feminists that insist on using words such as "womyn" and "hertory" into that category, just as an example.)

This is purely anecdotal (and just an observation, so please don't jump all over me if you disagree!), but I have noticed in RL that those of my friends that tend to feel strong anger towards feminists are often the guys who are most awkward around women (and consequently have difficulty getting into a relationship, which usually seems to be something they badly want). Somehow this all seems to be the feminists' fault. If it wasn't for them corrupting today's girls with their man-hating rhethoric, then they (the guys) would have been in a happy relationship long ago! (Of course, they don't say that out loud, but it's easy to connect the dots of their thinking, IMO.)

I also wonder if they perhaps feel that their inability to "pick up" makes them feel that they have to act all the more macho in order to compensate?

Radicalism from any group, be it feminists, religions, sports fans, etc will always stand out and stick in the minds of others. Sadly it's just the case with humanity and sensationalized media that negative nutjobs are remembered for the most part while the rest of any movement or people get forgotten by the majority.

I'd also venture to suggest that your friends who have difficulty getting into relationships are just bad with people in general and looking for any excuse not to evaluate and analyze their own shortcomings. What do those same friends say when they want to make friends or get along with another guy and it fails?

Plus you also need to understand the fear factor. Some men may simply be afraid that instead of gender equality that they will become the "lesser" of the two sexes and be forced to go through what women have. The same argument can be applied towards any type of equality phobia where someone would be for equality if they have the assurance it would not result in less equality for his or herself. Not to be confused with the types who just want to stay on top no matter who gets held down.

[Tempra]

Wait, you're holding me responsible for every wingnut statement made by every feminist everywhere, regardless of actual beliefs or nationality? Shall I do the same to you and misogynists? Take responsibility for your own damn actions. :rolleyes:

It's OK, I was just joking!

Keep pretending that feminists have not played a role in creating the notion that feminists are "shrill evil man-hating extremist harpies!!"

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Of course they have. Anyone who's tried to buck the status quo, for however justified a reason, gets a bad reputation. It doesn't mean they're actually shrill, man-hating, evil, extremist, or harpies.

[a wooden chair]

Of course they have. Anyone who's tried to buck the status quo, for however justified a reason, gets a bad reputation. It doesn't mean they're actually shrill, man-hating, evil, extremist, or harpies.

Yeah, they're only that if they won't go on dates with me!

[Eyelesbarrow]

I really don't sense the anger towards feminism in my part of the world. Here, feminism is invisible, swept under the rug. You talk about it and they will say, "what? say that again? what? I can't hear you."

In the end, you get tired of it and you become angry. Because really, who wouldn't? Then they blame you for losing your cause, for having no listeners, because you're so shrill and angry and just so damn antagonistic.

[Ser Reptitious]

Keep pretending that a few radical and extreme feminists have not played a role in creating the notion that feminists are "shrill evil man-hating extremist harpies!!"

Fixed.

Tempra, what sort of -isms do you associate with? Conservatism perhaps? If so, does that mean you and everyone else that roughly shares your beliefs is responsible for every nut-job radical ultra-conservative out there?

[Tempra]

Of course they have. Anyone who's tried to buck the status quo, for however justified a reason, gets a bad reputation. It doesn't mean they're actually shrill, man-hating, evil, extremist, or harpies.

And some of those reputations are deserved. See the link in post 10.

[kungtotte]

When I was younger I used to be quite an anti-feminist, because my sole exposure to feminism was to the man-hating idiotic kind of feminist. Then there was a period of "Well I'm not anti-feminist, but". Now I'm mostly over it though, because I realise that the man-hating idiotic kind of feminists are the minority and they're just as silly as any other kind of extremist so why pay attention to them?

To frame it using the current example: I think that the people campaigning to change Canada's anthem are as silly as the people resisting the change.

We'd all be better off if the extremists from both camps just got together in Thunderdome and duked it out.